Why Don’t We See Miracles Like the Apostles Did?

[RickyZ]

After a prayer session the likes of which I haven't seen in years, I feel I have to return to my previous testimony, as I think the answer to the op truly lay within...

I gave the story of the beach incident from my point of view. I know some rolled their eyes and wrote it off to 'spiritual exuberance'. But consider it from another point of view:

God looks down upon a crowded beach. Among all the people there is a boy who has held questions and uncertainty about Him. "What can I do to make inroads into this boy's heart" the Lord thinks.

Also among the people are corks bobbing in the water, many selfishly thinking "how 'bout it God..?'" regarding their boredom.

But among those corks God spots one willing to do something about it.

So God's Spirit moves upon that one, saying "why do you keep asking? SPEAK IT!"

So in faith the cork speaks. The waves rise. The boy notices.

The Holy Spirit moves upon the waters, bringing the boy and the cork within earshot.

"Thank You for all these, Lord" the cork speaks. The boy overhears. The boy asks... "God..." answers the cork.

The boy, recognizing something has changed, ties God to that change. His heart softens...

Angels unawares...

The gifts are true

The miracles are true

One only needs the faith of the apostles... and their willingness...

May God bless you all

 

[Lawrene]

Why Don’t We See Miracles Like the Apostles Did?

Are we not Spirit filled like they were or is it from lack of faith, prayer, or fasting?

I believe we experience some miracles but nothing like they did.

Most of the Tele-evangelists, pastors and preachers are focusing that there are many miracle have been occured in their ministries
They push forward the novice believers in front of crowd or congregations to tell as they dictated. Even during telecasting their programme they do editing the events according to their will. Only converted truth and facts have been tele-casted everywhere. Addition to this they are focusing only the physical healings as miracles but not anything about transformation of Soul.

But in apostelic days while Peter and John preaching the truth before the crowd there were 3000 - 5000 people pierced in their heart and accepted Jesus as their Savior. This type of transformation occured everywhere even these days but those were not focused by the preachers. Even the persons who got transformation in their heart are not willing to come forward immediately because they thought themselves such transformations are not miracle, attractive, simple, ordinary and common.

These days teachers and preachers taught the believers wrongly, but it was not so in apostolic time.

 

[wolfwint]

My impression is that there was something going on with the kid I ended up talking to, and that God stepped in to use the situation to provide some kind of witness to him. Having fun was just an added benefit! But you are right, all gifts/miracles should in the end glorify Him. That is one of the spiritual tests. And in the end, God's glory was confirmed/shown both to me and the kid.

And again, forget your focus on charismatic/pentecostal thing. I do believe they are the reason God gave us 1 Cor 14.

So what you say? Parham was rigth with his doctrine?
God gave 1. Cor. 14, thats right; but he also gave Matth. 7, 13 ff:

Enter in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and many there be who go in there: Because narrow is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it. Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. You shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree brings forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that brings not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you shall know them. Not every one that says unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out demons? and in your name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity. Therefore whosoever hears these sayings of mine, and does them, I will liken him unto a wise man, who built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that hears these sayings of mine, and does them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.



I do not doubt that God gives today miracles ore healings. But I doubt to the doctrines which made from man without base from the scripture. To explain the "second "baptism with speaking in tongues is taken out of the context and made according the will of man, but not from God. As the JW uesing the scripture and creating their own dorctrine by useing the text out of context and meaning.

 

[shittim]

You are very much on track RickyZ, and I appreciate your testimony, so does our Lord and Savior, it is personal relationship,"His sheep know His voice", most of prayer is listening to Him, listening to a word from Him, being open to and seeking His leading.
"Speaking to the mountain" is important also, you have touched on that as you related how you were guided to command it in Jesus Name. In healing we are guided to speak to the condition about G-d, when many of us were initially taught incorrectly to ask G-d about the condition and occasionally we would see Him manifest His healing to His Glory.
The Bible is the starting point and all He does is founded in the Bible.
Way too much discussion of how the Creator of the Universe can't/won't/doesn't anymore and skirting over "He is the same yesterday, today and forever".
bless you brother

 

[Lawrene]

Hi Awakened,

I personally believe that healing and all is happening today and miracles happen today, we just don't have the same experience as the early church did where many were being healed daily.

I personally think it has to do with the fact that it's not God's will to work the exact same way he did then.

When I read in the NT and see that Paul wasn't healed because of an infirmity and God tells him after Paul praying 3 times, that His grace is sufficient and that strength is made perfect through weakness. Instead of a healing he got a thorn.

We also see Timothy who had stomach problems and frequent illnesses. What does Paul tell him. Is it, keep praying, ya just don't have enough faith! Or, go confess your sins and then you'll be healed! Or, who haven't you forgiven? Or, what type of witchcraft have you been involved in? I've had those told to me and more.

No, he simply told Timothy to drink a little wine for his stomach problems and his frequent illnesses. I think it's dangerous to seek after signs. And I'm not saying you are. I'm just using this opportunity to kind of warn all of us. At one time I thought my healing was the most important thing in my life. It consumed me for a while.

Satan will be doing signs and wonders in the last days during the tribulation period and he will use them to deceive many. Let's not be one of them that so desires the blessings of God that we look for those way above the one who blesses.

And I don't say all this lightly. I suffer with pain everyday of my life. But God is my healer each day. He gives me exactly what I need for that day. Do I need comfort? He's the God of all comfort. Do I need peace? He's my Prince of Peace. Do I need joy? The joy of the Lord is my strength and He gives abundantly.

When I need encouragement, all I need to do is pray and or read His word. His word is filled with encouragement and everything else I need for my day. Not one day goes by that He doesn't meet my every need and abundantly blesses me above all I could ever want. Because as I grow in Him, my desires become His desires and He hasn't decided to heal me yet so I accept His wisdom as to how He'll take care of me.

So is God a healer? He heals in ways we see and in ways we don't see. We have the abundant life in Him and sometimes we just don't see it. When he changes the soul within, what better miracle can there be?

One of the best miracles of my life was the day that God saved our marriage and my husband and I became believers. If that's all He ever did, it would be enough. I really believe that we need scales removed from our eyes. We have so much in Him, but sometimes we just don't see it because we focus on what we don't have and not on what we do have.

Glory Hallelujah, Jesus set me free!

Amen... it's true we are experiencing His power everyday as miracle in our needs through the scriptures given by God our Father and Gospel of Christ.

 

[Bladerunner]

Why Don’t We See Miracles Like the Apostles Did?

Are we not Spirit filled like they were or is it from lack of faith, prayer, or fasting?

I believe we experience some miracles but nothing like they did.

there are many miracles out performed by God. If you are talking about miracles by a disciple, now that is debatable. Read up on Iran and other middle east countries where God is performing miracles every day resulting in 20% increase in conversion from Islam to Christianity. On might look to China and other Asian countries as well.

Here in the US. we only have about 0.8% increase in Christianity from those who never had religion before. It is sad, but Christianity in the US is well on it way to a complete Apostasy of the Word of God. We also see this in this forum more and more every day (i.e. replacement theology).

I pray that this apostasy (in the USA) could change but the only way it will change is to have a catastrophic nationwide incident happen. We would then, and only then, have the great awakening he Bible speaks of..

Billy Graham once said: (and I paraphrase) 'If God does not judge the USA, then He will owe Sodom and Gamorrah an apology'

 

[Lawrene]

This has been a pressing question on my mind for a long time...and it is becoming all the more urgent of late...and I believe there is a reasonable

I consider the fact that Peter could just tell a person that he has no gold but he could bring restoration to the man and tell him to get up and walk...and he did! I consider all the miracles of Elijah and Elisha, preparation for the Messiah and all He would do...and I asked God, "Why are there sick people in our church? Why are there amazing healings at revivals but not everyday?" There should be, I believe.

The biggest reason God has shown me of late is that Holy Spirit is hindered. There are things preventing Him from having complete access and control. We are told that things loosed in Heaven are loosed on earth and vice versa and so it is with things bound...so we have done things that are preventing healings the way they were in Jesus' day and in the day of the disciples.

No, it isn't a "then and now" thing. It's a spiritual warfare thing. The ones that are sensitive and seek guidance and wisdom and understanding will begin to receive answers and then see the miracles begin to come and soon we will hear, again, about "pockets" of healing that defy modern medicine and aren't just a here and there thing, but a daily thing. I am at the mere entrance of this freeing of Holy Spirit. It is not something that is just going to happen. It's supernatural an
d cannot be forced, bought, or rushed. I truly believe that God's preparing us for something great and those that are seeking Him and His will are going to be amazed when things begin to speed up and happen...because time is short and Jesus is coming soon.

It's true. It's the warfare against evil and it's devilish tricks. Many times we fail to understand the heavenly comfort came through the word of God in our life. We are looking physical miracle or outward miracle alone. Ok its good, but we should identify the inward miracles connected with our life without fail. Then only we will show the light of God among our neighbours and bring glory to God our Father in Heaven. Mathew 5:16 Jesus says that , we are the light of the world. Whoever identifying the gentle touch of God both inwardly and outwardly will never go ashtray and become true witnesses of God in their days of life. Amen...

 

[RickyZ]

You are very much on track RickyZ, and I appreciate your testimony, so does our Lord and Savior, it is personal relationship,"His sheep know His voice", most of prayer is listening to Him, listening to a word from Him, being open to and seeking His leading.
"Speaking to the mountain" is important also, you have touched on that as you related how you were guided to command it in Jesus Name. In healing we are guided to speak to the condition about G-d, when many of us were initially taught incorrectly to ask G-d about the condition and occasionally we would see Him manifest His healing to His Glory.
The Bible is the starting point and all He does is founded in the Bible.
Way too much discussion of how the Creator of the Universe can't/won't/doesn't anymore and skirting over "He is the same yesterday, today and forever".
bless you brother

It just gets to me, to see so many proclaim God's Name and yet deny the full extent of His power. And our place in bringing it to bear in this world. Imagine what could be accomplished in His Name if we all, instead of questioning, were willing to step out in full faith and speak to the mountain every day.

 

[presidente]

wolfwint,

Parham was not the first person to believe in tongues as initial evidence. Irving apparently did, too.

 

[wolfwint]

wolfwint,

Parham was not the first person to believe in tongues as initial evidence. Irving apparently did, too.

Yes, and his doctrine leads finally to a sect, with a false doctrine! A weak reason to trust. Did he realy taught the second baptism with manifestation of speaking in tongues like Parham did?

 

[presidente]

Yes, and his doctrine leads finally to a sect, with a false doctrine! A weak reason to trust. Did he realy taught the second baptism with manifestation of speaking in tongues like Parham did?

I'm not convinced of the 'initial evidence doctrine.' In scripture, one several occasions when individuals were filled with the Spirit then spoke in tongues, or certain of them did. I don't see how we can conclude from that that everyone filled with/baptized with the Spirit will speak in tongues.

But I can see from scripture that the Spirit may empower individuals to speak in tongues when they are filled with the Holy Spirit. I also expect God to answer prayers made in faith.

 

[presidente]

Billy Graham once said: (and I paraphrase) 'If God does not judge the USA, then He will owe Sodom and Gamorrah an apology'

I heard that was a quote from his wife, but doesn't that display a misunderstanding of grace?

 

[shittim]

Yes RickyZ, and I believe it got to Jesus as well, repeatedly we see in scripture where the demons He was casting out recognized Him, when His own disciples did not.

 

[garee]

I'm not convinced of the 'initial evidence doctrine.'

The initial evidence is men believe God, according to prophecy (the word of God) giving a person a desire to do the will of God, as evidence they have the Holy Spirit.

1Corinthians 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Those who believe not prophecy would be those who have no assurance so they make themselves the source of assurance by some work they perform outwardly.

No such thing a sign gift. We walk by faith (the unseen)

It would be a sign they have no assurance unless they perform a work with their flesh . The Jews performed the same. "Do a work as a sign then believe" . They made Christ into a circus seal.

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

In scripture, one several occasions when individuals were filled with the Spirit then spoke in tongues, or certain of them did.

I see hearing in tongues. God in that sense does the speaking, as he interprets.

Peter spoke his own language, not ten different languages at the same time in a multiple languages that he did not know.

Prophecy is for those who believe, tongues as sign for those who do not have the assurance of the Holy Spirit..

Those who did get saved did not hear tongues( plural.) Over ten different language were heard as God interpreted His prophecy, to them.

Tongues are a sign to those who believe not.(no faith in Christ, not seen)

No such thing as a sign gift...like do some work outwardly and then believe the work you performed means you have the Holy Spirit. Turning things upside down is what the Jews performed making the cross their stumbling block without effect...

In that way no one actually spoke in tongues (gibberish) in the Bible. Rather, they spoke in their own language, and the listeners (hearing of faith) heard the message in their own native language. We read in Acts 2:8-11,

"And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Not the wonderful works of those being move to speak in their own language as their way of having assurance they have the Holy Spirit...

2Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight


.

 

[samuel23]

I see two things being mixed together that should not be mixed together. First, God honors faith if it is real faith. Second, Pentecostalism does not have a seat up front when it comes to miracles, they just think they do. I know of a lady that was saved in a Baptist church and was kind of out of it at the time. Anyway, her car was stolen and she decided to believe that God would bring back that car. After a month or so I felt so sorry for that person knowing that the chance of finding that car was just about zero. Well, about 6 weeks I got word that the car was found parked in front of the police station and there was not anything wrong with it. God does honor faith. We do not have to storm the gates of Heaven(as many Pentecostals do) in order to get God to respond...just believe.

 

[RickyZ]

I see two things being mixed together that should not be mixed together. First, God honors faith if it is real faith. Second, Pentecostalism does not have a seat up front when it comes to miracles, they just think they do. I know of a lady that was saved in a Baptist church and was kind of out of it at the time. Anyway, her car was stolen and she decided to believe that God would bring back that car. After a month or so I felt so sorry for that person knowing that the chance of finding that car was just about zero. Well, about 6 weeks I got word that the car was found parked in front of the police station and there was not anything wrong with it. God does honor faith. We do not have to storm the gates of Heaven(as many Pentecostals do) in order to get God to respond...just believe.

Amen!

...................

 

[presidente]

In that way no one actually spoke in tongues (gibberish) in the Bible. Rather, they spoke in their own language, and the listeners (hearing of faith) heard the message in their own native language. We read in Acts 2:8-11,

You contradict the scripture here when you say they spoke their own language. The word translated 'tongues' is the word for 'languages.' It was already established earlier in the chapter that 'the spoke in tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.' It says 'tongues' not their own 'tongue.' Why would it be plural if they were all speaking their own language? The Spirit clearly enabled them to speak in actual languages, not appear to be speaking in different langauges.

"And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

Notice their testimony. They said they heard every man speak in their own tongue. They did not say that every man was speaking in some other language, but they heard their own tongue. They did not say they saw their lips move one way, but different words come out of their mouth like in a dubbed Chinese Kung Fu movie. The 'miracle in the ear' view is a rather convoluted interpretation.


Also, the way you interpret 'tongues are for a sign to them that believe not', if I understand you right, does not agree with what the rest of the passage says.


Tongues are for a sign to them that believe not. To them that believe, tongues are for the common good. For the individual who speaks in tongues, it edifies him. For the church, tongues and interpretation edify the church.


Tongues are for a sign to them that believe not.


But tongues are NOT ONLY for a sign to them that believe not. They are also listed among the manifestations given for the common good.

John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

Jesus said that right before healing someone. Jesus refused to give a sign to certain people right after He fed the 5000. They may have been after Him for a fulfilled prophecy, the type of sign that was a test for a prophet in Deuteronomy. Notice the sign He did give was a prophecy that would be fulfilled, the sign of the prophet Jonah, that the Son of Man would be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. There were Jews who demanded a sign of His authority to cleans the temple in John and He said destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up. Notice this sign is also a fulfilled prophecy.


And tongues as a sign in I Corinthians 14 is a fulfilled prophecy, fulfilling a prophecy about people not hearing God.

 

[wolfwint]

I'm not convinced of the 'initial evidence doctrine.' In scripture, one several occasions when individuals were filled with the Spirit then spoke in tongues, or certain of them did. I don't see how we can conclude from that that everyone filled with/baptized with the Spirit will speak in tongues.

But I can see from scripture that the Spirit may empower individuals to speak in tongues when they are filled with the Holy Spirit. I also expect God to answer prayers made in faith.

So you think that Parhams doctrine is wrong?
Which scripture you mean? In acts 2,8,10 and 19 are special events with a special purpose which you can find in the context. In the epistles where the church is normally got their teachings from is so far no scripture which proofes that somebody is filled with the Holy Spirit also is speaking in tongues. If i am wrong please show me. To speakin tongues was a gift indepent to be filled ore not with the Holy Spirit.

 

[shittim]

Samuel23 and Rickyz- though some groups may not have a "front seat" as in they being exclusive recipients
of G-d's supernatural working in their lives they do have the faith that He can and will in keeping with His
Perfect Will for them. Jesus, we are told, could not do many miracles in some places, "because of their unbelief".
In another place the woman with the issue of blood was told "your faith has made you whole".
Best wishes

 

[shittim]

Samuel23 and Rickyz- though some groups may not have a "front seat" as in they being exclusive recipients
of G-d's supernatural working in their lives they do have the faith that He can and will in keeping with His
Perfect Will for them. Jesus, we are told, could not do many miracles in some places, "because of their unbelief".
In another place the woman with the issue of blood was told "your faith has made you whole".
Best wishes