Why have the Sign Gifts Ended

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presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,160
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Did Acts 2:20 ever happened in Peter's lifetime?

What about ours?
This is a good argument for the prophecy starting around AD 33 and continuing on into the future, which is inconsistent with cessationism
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
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If an a Christian parrots nonsense about Greek I do not assume he is damned.
How does one receive only parts of the word of God and be a skeptic of the parts he doesn't like and claim to be a Christian?

Believers are sanctified by the word of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
1,134
205
63
Did Acts 2:20 ever happened in Peter's lifetime?

What about ours?

Well that is typically the case. Look through new Testament. The old testament scriptures are quoted when they are fulfilled or apply.


1 Peter 2:4-8
The Living Stone and a Chosen People
4 As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by humans but chosen by God and precious to him— 5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house[a] to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 For in Scripture it says:

“See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a chosen and precious cornerstone,
and the one who trusts in him
will never be put to shame.”[b]
7 Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe,

“The stone the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone,”[c]
8 and,

“A stone that causes people to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall.”[d]
They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for.



Matthew 1:22-23
English Standard Version

22 All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet:
23 “Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son,
and they shall call his name Immanuel”
(which means, God with us).
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,160
1,787
113
How does one receive only parts of the word of God and be a skeptic of the parts he doesn't like and claim to be a Christian?
Paul corrected all kind of error in his epistles, writing to churches. He did not say they were all damned. We have seen a certain posts in this thread from people making untrue assertions about how to interpret the Greek. That doesn't prove that said individuals are on their way to Hell.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,353
13,723
113
How does one receive only parts of the word of God and be a skeptic of the parts he doesn't like and claim to be a Christian?

Believers are sanctified by the word of God.
Either this was as true in 34 AD as it is today, which means that having the complete word of God is not necessary, or it is not true at all. That in turn means that "receiving" the whole word of God is not necessary. Christian faith in not contingent upon either having or receiving the whole Bible.

What you call being "a skeptic of the parts he doesn't like" is probably a matter of interpretation. You and I interpret certain passages very differently. You claim to be a Christian and I claim to be a Christian. On the basis of that information alone, you have your answer, but the only way you can rationalize it is to conclude that I am not a Christian... which you have stated more than once. By that logic, I can claim with equal sincerity that you aren't a Christian either. You will dismiss that assertion, while holding on to your own, in contravention of both simple logic and humility.

Until you understand, accept, and embrace the reality that agreement with your interpretation of Scripture does NOT determine whether someone is a Christian, you will likely continue to come across as closed-minded, arrogant, and self-righteous.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,160
1,787
113
Well that is typically the case. Look through new Testament. The old testament scriptures are quoted when they are fulfilled or apply.


1 Peter 2:4-8
The Living Stone and a Chosen People
4 As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by humans but chosen by God and precious to him— 5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house[a] to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 For in Scripture it says:

“See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a chosen and precious cornerstone,
and the one who trusts in him
will never be put to shame.”[b]
7 Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe,

“The stone the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone,”[c]
8 and,

“A stone that causes people to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall.”[d]
They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for.
This is an example of a scripture that finds fulfillment in the New Testament scriptures, but that does not mean it's fulfillment is all for the past. We are still being built until a house today. The Old Testament prophecy is fulfilled in something that started in the first century and continues until this day.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
Paul corrected all kind of error in his epistles, writing to churches. He did not say they were all damned. We have seen a certain posts in this thread from people making untrue assertions about how to interpret the Greek. That doesn't prove that said individuals are on their way to Hell.
Paul preached a genuine gospel message and did not make the message suit those who were hearing the message. Like Jesus Paul preached that unless you get saved through grace you will perish forever.

Persons who do not believe in Christ cannot understand how to interpret the Greek in the context of the word of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
Either this was as true in 34 AD as it is today, which means that having the complete word of God is not necessary, or it is not true at all. That in turn means that "receiving" the whole word of God is not necessary. Christian faith in not contingent upon either having or receiving the whole Bible.

What you call being "a skeptic of the parts he doesn't like" is probably a matter of interpretation. You and I interpret certain passages very differently. You claim to be a Christian and I claim to be a Christian. On the basis of that information alone, you have your answer, but the only way you can rationalize it is to conclude that I am not a Christian... which you have stated more than once. By that logic, I can claim with equal sincerity that you aren't a Christian either. You will dismiss that assertion, while holding on to your own, in of both simple logic and humility.

Until you understand, accept, and embrace the reality that agreement with your interpretation of Scripture does NOT determine whether someone is a Christian, you will likely continue to come across as closed-minded, arrogant, and self-righteous.
Scripture reveals who in a Christian and who is a pretender.

I do not know if you are a Christian or a pretender. You do not provide sufficient evidence for me to conclude that you are a genuine believer in Christ or just a poorly discipled baby.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,353
13,723
113
Scripture reveals who in a Christian and who is a pretender.

I do not know if you are a Christian or a pretender. You do not provide sufficient evidence for me to conclude that you are a genuine believer in Christ or just a poorly discipled baby.
Likewise.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,160
1,787
113
Paul preached a genuine gospel message and did not make the message suit those who were hearing the message. Like Jesus Paul preached that unless you get saved through grace you will perish forever.
What you are saying does not really fit well with this thread of conversation. The fact that Paul explained who God is to the Lyaconians and Athenians comes to mind. So do these words in I Corinthians 9.

19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.

20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

Persons who do not believe in Christ cannot understand how to interpret the Greek in the context of the word of God.
How much Greek do you know and understand? Why didn't you speak up about the article τοῖς modifying the participle πιστεύσασιν if you know all about Greek? Do you a good understanding of the Greek New Testament? What about Paul's epistles in Greek? Do you mind if I ask you a few questions?
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
Well that is typically the case. Look through new Testament. The old testament scriptures are quoted when they are fulfilled or apply.


1 Peter 2:4-8
The Living Stone and a Chosen People
4 As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by humans but chosen by God and precious to him— 5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house[a] to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 For in Scripture it says:

“See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a chosen and precious cornerstone,
and the one who trusts in him
will never be put to shame.”[b]
7 Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe,

“The stone the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone,”[c]
8 and,

“A stone that causes people to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall.”[d]
They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for.



Matthew 1:22-23
English Standard Version

22 All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet:
23 “Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son,
and they shall call his name Immanuel”
(which means, God with us).
But by the time Peter was near of his life, he himself recognized the Day of the Lord has been postponed to a later unknown date. (2 Peter 3)
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,353
13,723
113
But by the time Peter was near of his life, he himself recognized the Day of the Lord has been postponed to a later unknown date. (2 Peter 3)
How do you get "postponed" out of what Peter wrote?
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
How do you get "postponed" out of what Peter wrote?
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Vs 10 never happened in Peter's life.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,353
13,723
113
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Vs 10 never happened in Peter's life.
Okay, but that doesn't answer my question.
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
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Okay, but that doesn't answer my question.
So if an event that Peter said will come in Acts 2:20, did not come even at the end of his life at 2 Peter 3:10, can that event be said to be postponed to a future date?
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
What you are saying does not really fit well with this thread of conversation. The fact that Paul explained who God is to the Lyaconians and Athenians comes to mind. So do these words in I Corinthians 9.

19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.

20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
Are you taking this to mean that Paul compromised the gospel?
How much Greek do you know and understand? Why didn't you speak up about the article τοῖς modifying the participle πιστεύσασιν if you know all about Greek? Do you a good understanding of the Greek New Testament? What about Paul's epistles in Greek? Do you mind if I ask you a few questions?
How much English do you know? The only thing that is important is knowing the genuine gospel and sharing it with lost souls. Those who spend much time learning Greek have little time left to testify of Christ.

Why doesn't God gift the tongue of Greek to believers?

For the cause of Christ
Roger