Why have the Sign Gifts Ended
- Thread starter Guojing
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
For your 1st point, that is no scripture for that. Paul used the Abrahamic covenant in Romans 4 to show how we are justified by faith apart from works, just as Abraham.
For your 2nd point, Paul used Isaiah 28:11 in his 1 Cor 14:21-22
21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
If you are aware of the context of Isa 28, the Israelites (the northern kingdom) were so hard-hearted and stubborn in breaching their covenant with God that God sent a judgment upon them (the Assyrian nation – who spoke in the Akkadian language – a foreign language that Israel would not have known) by bringing them into Assyrian captivity.
The northern kingdom of Israel rejected the rest and the covenant relationship from God, hence, God speak to them in foreign tongues.
The causality is hence
If you reject the rest, then God will speak to you in foreign tongues (the Assyrian language of Akkadian).
So tongues in 1 Cor 14:21-22, from context, also refers to known foreign languages.
For your 2nd point, Paul used Isaiah 28:11 in his 1 Cor 14:21-22
21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
If you are aware of the context of Isa 28, the Israelites (the northern kingdom) were so hard-hearted and stubborn in breaching their covenant with God that God sent a judgment upon them (the Assyrian nation – who spoke in the Akkadian language – a foreign language that Israel would not have known) by bringing them into Assyrian captivity.
The northern kingdom of Israel rejected the rest and the covenant relationship from God, hence, God speak to them in foreign tongues.
The causality is hence
If you reject the rest, then God will speak to you in foreign tongues (the Assyrian language of Akkadian).
So tongues in 1 Cor 14:21-22, from context, also refers to known foreign languages.
-
1
- Show all
I know all are sinner but not all information or story from a man are lie
For example, when your teacher teach you Washington is the capital of united state, he is not lie.
And some new converter are famous like a movie star, we all know he was Muslim, why he lie pretend to convert, lose his job, disown by his family, one of South Sulawesi prince went to prison 4 years.
People know he was Muslim, he is a prince, to lie is impossible.
Yes he is human like us, some time we lie, but we lie for money or profit, not lie in order to go to prison.
That what I believe my friend, I know you have your own believe.
For example, when your teacher teach you Washington is the capital of united state, he is not lie.
And some new converter are famous like a movie star, we all know he was Muslim, why he lie pretend to convert, lose his job, disown by his family, one of South Sulawesi prince went to prison 4 years.
People know he was Muslim, he is a prince, to lie is impossible.
Yes he is human like us, some time we lie, but we lie for money or profit, not lie in order to go to prison.
That what I believe my friend, I know you have your own believe.
I give the link below, it is in Indonesian but we can use google translate.
This person was big imam, wise president of the biggest Muslim school in south east Asia.
His wife was my ex neighbor, she was helping my father small business for about a years, when she was abou 15 years oldso I know she was Muslim, I never meet him but about 10 years ago when I and my sister visit her, she ask me to talk to her husband on the phone.
To lie about his Muslim background is impossible.
https://kesaksian-life.blogspot.com/2012/10/kesaksian-saifuddin-ibrahim-lulusan.html
This person was big imam, wise president of the biggest Muslim school in south east Asia.
His wife was my ex neighbor, she was helping my father small business for about a years, when she was abou 15 years oldso I know she was Muslim, I never meet him but about 10 years ago when I and my sister visit her, she ask me to talk to her husband on the phone.
To lie about his Muslim background is impossible.
https://kesaksian-life.blogspot.com/2012/10/kesaksian-saifuddin-ibrahim-lulusan.html
-
1
- Show all
I know English is not your native language and from your posts it is clear that you are struggling with concepts and history.
However that may be...The Bible is very clear not withstanding what you personally think my friend.
When the Bible says that "ALL MEN ARE LIARS" then ALL men are indeed liars and from my years of living and working with people I can promise you that every man lies to one extend or another.
We all lie and we all SIN and it has nothing to do with being a Muslim or an actor or anything else.
Romans 3:23.....
"ALL have sinned and come short of the approval of God".
That my friend is not up for discussion or debate as it is what it says that it is!
However that may be...The Bible is very clear not withstanding what you personally think my friend.
When the Bible says that "ALL MEN ARE LIARS" then ALL men are indeed liars and from my years of living and working with people I can promise you that every man lies to one extend or another.
We all lie and we all SIN and it has nothing to do with being a Muslim or an actor or anything else.
Romans 3:23.....
"ALL have sinned and come short of the approval of God".
That my friend is not up for discussion or debate as it is what it says that it is!
I agree all man are sin. We do lie, but we not always lie
For example, what you say in your post above is not lie don't you?
We can check that the verse that you post is in the Bible, so you not lie on that post about that bible verse.
So does famous person.
A famous person may lie, a lot of famous politician are lie
But if a movie star lie about his background, for example he never been Muslim, and say he was Muslim, people will know.
When I lie to you and say I was Muslim, you don't know because I am regular person, not many people know me
For example, what you say in your post above is not lie don't you?
We can check that the verse that you post is in the Bible, so you not lie on that post about that bible verse.
So does famous person.
A famous person may lie, a lot of famous politician are lie
But if a movie star lie about his background, for example he never been Muslim, and say he was Muslim, people will know.
When I lie to you and say I was Muslim, you don't know because I am regular person, not many people know me
Incorrect Jackson. In pre-Islamic Arabia, pagan Meccans used Allah as a reference to the IDOL creator-god, that they had established, and thought to be supreme deity.
ALLAH was the name of the local IDOL worshipped in Arabia and was in fact the most popular IDOL worshipped hence the accepted name used by Muslims today.
ALLAH was the name of the local IDOL worshipped in Arabia and was in fact the most popular IDOL worshipped hence the accepted name used by Muslims today.
Man O' Man, you will defend anything, such as Holy Ghost usage, rather than admit error, grow and move on. The plain and simple fact is, Ghost and Spirit do not carry the same meaning in our English terminology. It is not an idiom!
As far as the rest of the discussion on "sign gifts" is concerned, you have made your points and I have made mine - further discussion is pointless on this subject.
As far as the rest of the discussion on "sign gifts" is concerned, you have made your points and I have made mine - further discussion is pointless on this subject.
Yes and that would be the future Apostle Paul.
I would not use this subject to determine ones true Salvation, however it would raise doubts. How many people believe these things are irrelevant. Matter of fact, the more that agree with this the more likely it is not of God. The reasoning being that God's people have always, always, been in the minority. This proof is throughout Scripture and I would challenge anyone, using Scripture, to disprove that statement.
The true test of Salvation comes from what one holds true on the subject of Soteriology. Simply put, by many writers, whether you believe in "Free-will" or "Free-grace". Whether you believe that man became spiritually depraved in the fall of Adam or believe that depravity is a mere Calvinistic myth. (As some one term it)? Whether you hold that it is God's Sovereign Mercy and choice that leads to Salvation or whether it is man's choice? I have always liked this statement from an ancient writer, "One may choose Christ but that does not mean Christ has chosen you.".
I would not use this subject to determine ones true Salvation, however it would raise doubts. How many people believe these things are irrelevant. Matter of fact, the more that agree with this the more likely it is not of God. The reasoning being that God's people have always, always, been in the minority. This proof is throughout Scripture and I would challenge anyone, using Scripture, to disprove that statement.
The true test of Salvation comes from what one holds true on the subject of Soteriology. Simply put, by many writers, whether you believe in "Free-will" or "Free-grace". Whether you believe that man became spiritually depraved in the fall of Adam or believe that depravity is a mere Calvinistic myth. (As some one term it)? Whether you hold that it is God's Sovereign Mercy and choice that leads to Salvation or whether it is man's choice? I have always liked this statement from an ancient writer, "One may choose Christ but that does not mean Christ has chosen you.".
S
Why would anyone like that statement? You did not explain why and it sounds like such a terrible statement to make.
The word of God says ..and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
Therefore the idea that one could choose Christ (come to him in faith) and not be accepted (Christ not choose you) is not the Gospel we preach. We preach that any one who comes to Him will be accepted, forgiven, chosen by Christ.
If you have truly chosen Christ you can be assured that you are truly chosen by Christ.
It is impossible to choose Christ and be rejected by him. Judas did not choose Christ he chose money instead. Believing that there was an historical figure named Jesus Christ is not choosing Christ either.
Let us define what it means to choose Christ because in most cases when something like that is said it is in reference to a turning to Christ is faith and this will never be rejected.
What could the original ancient author have meant? Please explain.
The word of God says ..and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
Therefore the idea that one could choose Christ (come to him in faith) and not be accepted (Christ not choose you) is not the Gospel we preach. We preach that any one who comes to Him will be accepted, forgiven, chosen by Christ.
If you have truly chosen Christ you can be assured that you are truly chosen by Christ.
It is impossible to choose Christ and be rejected by him. Judas did not choose Christ he chose money instead. Believing that there was an historical figure named Jesus Christ is not choosing Christ either.
Let us define what it means to choose Christ because in most cases when something like that is said it is in reference to a turning to Christ is faith and this will never be rejected.
What could the original ancient author have meant? Please explain.
It was explained in the post, by the following:
The true test of Salvation comes from what one holds true on the subject of Soteriology. Simply put, by many writers, whether you believe in "Free-will" or "Free-grace". Whether you believe that man became spiritually depraved in the fall of Adam or believe that depravity is a mere Calvinistic myth. (As some one term it)? Whether you hold that it is God's Sovereign Mercy and choice that leads to Salvation or whether it is man's choice?
Answering these questions will determine where one is on the subject of Soteriology. Putting ones faith in Christ is not just a simple matter of saying one believes in Jesus Christ. That faith must be God given and therefore is a far greater faith than typical human faith.
Eph 2:8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Eph 2:9 not of works, that no man should glory.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.
The true test of Salvation comes from what one holds true on the subject of Soteriology. Simply put, by many writers, whether you believe in "Free-will" or "Free-grace". Whether you believe that man became spiritually depraved in the fall of Adam or believe that depravity is a mere Calvinistic myth. (As some one term it)? Whether you hold that it is God's Sovereign Mercy and choice that leads to Salvation or whether it is man's choice?
Answering these questions will determine where one is on the subject of Soteriology. Putting ones faith in Christ is not just a simple matter of saying one believes in Jesus Christ. That faith must be God given and therefore is a far greater faith than typical human faith.
Eph 2:8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Eph 2:9 not of works, that no man should glory.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.
