Why I Believe Judas Iscariot is Saved Pt 1

[tribesman]

Haha. My friend...your putting your words to my mouth. I NEVER SAID WE CAN HELP TO SAVE OURSELVES. I NEVER SAID THAT SINNERS CAN ATTRIBUTE TO THEIR SALVATION. I NEVER SAID THAT and I DONT PREACH THAT. Its your words putting to my mouth and its not good. Imposing your ideas and presenting as if other people said that. Ephesians 2:8-10, clearly says that salvation is by grace.....BY GRACE...and NOT BY WORKS!

I don't know if you are fully honest here. I did not put anything into your mouth. You believe that natural, fallen and evil man is able to either choose to be saved or not choose to. You put the burden of salvation on the sinner and his "choice". In your view salvation is conditioned on the "choice" and "repentance" of the sinner, not on the work of Christ alone. This is a fact. And you know it.

FORGIVENESS comes after repentance (Luke 24:47) Believing comes after repentance (Mark 1:!5) conversion comes after repentance (Acts 3:19). REPENTANCE IS A GIFT FROM GOD NOT FROM MEN- 2 Timothy 2:25 (CLEAR?)

No. Not clear. Because you are in effect saying that the old man must work up enough "repentance" before God so that He can save him and as a result of his "repentance" and "choice" God will reward him the new birth. That is a works-based salvation, conditioned on the work of the sinner.

Repent > Believe > Forgiven then Converted. FREE WILL COMES AFTER SALVATION (CLEAR?) Your response to God's calling is your part. God will not beg for you to do it. Its your will to participate in God's work, to submit to Him and make His will your will. all of that can be done after your decision to follow God. FREE WILL COMES AFTER SALVATION.

That is not what you have said before. You (in other posts here) and the article you send me in PM does not teach this. You are teaching that all sinners and lost men have a "free will" to either reject or accept Jesus. Are you really honest?

We should not twist the scripture to support our opinion but rather take our opinion from the truths of the scripture. let is not manipulate other people's words and twist it that will make our opinion to be a superior one.

This you must mirror yourself in, Your pious words means nothing if you are not honest when discussing this issue. Are your frequent use of caps in your last post an indication that your losing mood? Raising your voice? I have just objected to your view on "free will" as it is not biblical.

What are the decisions that you made in your life now that God has raised you from the dead?

Many they be. But how is that related to what we discuss here? Lets stick to the topic, shall we?

 

[tribesman]

...I NEVER SAID WE CAN HELP TO SAVE OURSELVES. I NEVER SAID THAT SINNERS CAN ATTRIBUTE TO THEIR SALVATION. I NEVER SAID THAT and I DONT PREACH THAT. Its your words putting to my mouth and its not good. Imposing your ideas and presenting as if other people said that. Ephesians 2:8-10, clearly says that salvation is by grace.....BY GRACE...and NOT BY WORKS! ... Repent > Believe > Forgiven then Converted. FREE WILL COMES AFTER SALVATION (CLEAR?) . Your response to God's calling is your part. God will not beg for you to do it. Its your will to participate in God's work, to submit to Him and make His will your will. all of that can be done after your decision to follow God. FREE WILL COMES AFTER SALVATION.

This is how you flatly contradict yourself. You add now "FREE WILL COMES AFTER SALVATION", you did not say that before, but you say this now. Why I don't know, but you do so.

The article you sent me in PM do not teach this. And that statement you made is flatly contradicting to what you are saying about our "part" to fulfill before God can save us. You still believe that the old and unregenerate man must make a "choice" and work up enough of "repentance" before he is saved. You still make it matter entirely of the sinner to use some ability within him to positively respond to God's calling.

To conclude that this is decisionism and conditionalism and thus a works based salvation or at least a salvation conditioned on something on or in the sinner (and not on the work of Christ alone) is not to put any words into your mouth or to twist what you are saying. It is an inevitable conclusion and by consequent reason the only thing to gather from what your beliefs about the issue are.

 

[GentleServant]

This is how you flatly contradict yourself. You add now "FREE WILL COMES AFTER SALVATION", you did not say that before, but you say this now. Why I don't know, but you do so.

The article you sent me in PM do not teach this. And that statement you made is flatly contradicting to what you are saying about our "part" to fulfill before God can save us. You still believe that the old and unregenerate man must make a "choice" and work up enough of "repentance" before he is saved. You still make it matter entirely of the sinner to use some ability within him to positively respond to God's calling.

To conclude that this is decisionism and conditionalism and thus a works based salvation or at least a salvation conditioned on something on or in the sinner (and not on the work of Christ alone) is not to put any words into your mouth or to twist what you are saying. It is an inevitable conclusion and by consequent reason the only thing to gather from what your beliefs about the issue are.

Sorry... but you are close minded (not to offend you but a sincere comment only.) and you don't even give time to understand my points. Now you are even judging me by questioning my honesty on what i am saying and because of that i will not continue this because this will not give glory to God anymore.

Last post for you my friend. NO Sinners can work for their salvation. It is only by grace through faith in Christ Jesus - hat is the most important point that i want to become clear. for all the other people reading my post.

Its up to you if you are going to stuck yourself in that belief you have. I am still confident that God has planned for you as He have plans why He hardens the heart of the Jews.

It is clear that there is no contradiction on what i am saying. it is all clear from the scripture that i am quoting, its your doctrinal belied that makes it complicated. You are not even quoting any single Bible passage (with right context) where you take all your doctrinal belief. How would people believe you?

Just to close it. i dont need to change your mind. its not my job. What I am saying is that Yes God is in total control of everything. and GOD CHOOSE TO CALL HIS PEOPLE and He gave us the privilege to makeour own decision on either follow/obey Him or not. This is to test the genuinity of our faith. We made our own will by faith on Jesus Christ finished work on the cross alone. not by armenian, lutheran, or what other doctrinal teachings this world has. God Bless and Good Bye Ingat

 

[tribesman]

Sorry... but you are close minded (not to offend you but a sincere comment only.) and you don't even give time to understand my points. Now you are even judging me by questioning my honesty on what i am saying and because of that i will not continue this because this will not give glory to God anymore.

Dishonest you are. Cowardly escaping when your errors are exposed. You believe that natural man has a free will to either reject or accept Jesus, which is unscriptural. What is the problem if that is being told?

Last post for you my friend. NO Sinners can work for their salvation. It is only by grace through faith in Christ Jesus - hat is the most important point that i want to become clear. for all the other people reading my post.

You are not my friend.

Its up to you if you are going to stuck yourself in that belief you have. I am still confident that God has planned for you as He have plans why He hardens the heart of the Jews.

Judging you, you said? Such hypocrisy follows to the heresies you cling to. Pious talk you have. Inside a raging wolf.

It is clear that there is no contradiction on what i am saying. it is all clear from the scripture that i am quoting, its your doctrinal belied that makes it complicated. You are not even quoting any single Bible passage (with right context) where you take all your doctrinal belief. How would people believe you?

Scriptures I have given that proves that sinners are dead in their sins and trespasses. But you still think God is expecting a response from the dead.

 

[tribesman]

For those interested in my views on the calling in Mark 1:14-15, which disproves free will as well as hyper-calvinism, you can read my article on link below.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...lling-mark-1-14-15-repent-believe-gospel.html

 

[GentleServant]

God call his people and convicts them to repent and offer the gift of salvation. Will you listen or not to God's calling? Will you decide to receive it or not? God is not begging for you to do so. Its His desire for you to do so. We are not deserving for this gift but by God's grace and mercy to us, He gave it to us. That is why we don't receive the gift of salvation by our efforts and works but only by grace of God.

[h=3]Ephesians 2:8-10[/h]8 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God—

9 not by works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath beforehand ordained, that we should walk in them.

[h=3]Acts 2:38[/h]
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


[h=3]Luke 23:39-43[/h]39 One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!”

40 But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”
42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”
43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.

 

[jandian]

And you also believe that you can lose your salvation. Right? We are far from each others positions, dear.

He who endures to the end shall be saved.

 

[tribesman]

God call his people and convicts them to repent and offer the gift of salvation. Will you listen or not to God's calling? Will you decide to receive it or not? God is not begging for you to do so. Its His desire for you to do so. We are not deserving for this gift but by God's grace and mercy to us, He gave it to us. That is why we don't receive the gift of salvation by our efforts and works but only by grace of God.

Explain to all readers here what you mean with "His people"? Including unbelievers? Because on an article that you endorse it reads:

He has placed the decision for our eternal destiny in our own hands through “free will.”

Jesus Christ died on the Cross for all of us to provide us a way, the only way, for eternal salvation. We have been given a “free will” to choose for ourselves whether to believe in Jesus Christ, and to accept His free gift of salvation, or to reject Him. Before each of us is a choice on where we will spend eternity: in heaven with God or in Hell separated from Him.

Unfortunately for some of us, God has given us the right to make our own choice--"free will." And the amazing thing about our ability to choose is that God respects our decision and will not countermand that decision. He has given us complete and ultimate authority over our own salvation. The work was already completed by Jesus Christ on the Cross, but the decision to accept Him as Lord and Savior of our lives, and to receive the free gift of salvation, is entirely in our own hands. This is the only place in the entire Bible where God's will is superseded by man’s will. He will faithfully and continually reach out to us and give us every opportunity to come to Him, but the final decision is ours.

The above is not scriptural but the mere philosophy of men.

Scriptures says:

Mark.10


[25] It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
[26] And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?
[27] And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

Eph.2

[1] And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
[2] Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
[3] Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
[4] But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
[5] Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
[6] And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
[7] That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
[8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.
[10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

So it proves here that sinners are dead in their trespasses and sins. They are not asked by God to "choose" to receive anything that would be pleasing to Him, since they are not able to do so. They can not do so. It is impossible. Once God in His mercy has raised a sinner up from death to life, it follows that he will have faith in His Savior. Something he can not have while still dead in his sins. Let not anyone be tricked thinking fallen man has any ability or "free will" to do anything pleasing to God (including believing on or receiving Jesus). Natural and carnal man is at enmity with God (Rom.8:7) and all his thoughts are evil before God (Mark 7:21). His own false religion must be repented of and counted as dung (Phil.3:4-8).

 

[GentleServant]

Dishonest you are. Cowardly escaping when your errors are exposed. You believe that natural man has a free will to either reject or accept Jesus, which is unscriptural. What is the problem if that is being told?

You are not my friend.

Judging you, you said? Such hypocrisy follows to the heresies you cling to. Pious talk you have. Inside a raging wolf.

Scriptures I have given that proves that sinners are dead in their sins and trespasses. But you still think God is expecting a response from the dead.

You cannot see what is inside of me...only God can. Are you God? Only God can judge me!

 

[GentleServant]

Explain to all readers here what you mean with "His people"? Including unbelievers? Because on an article that you endorse it reads:


My reply is for all the people who is reading my post. This for ALL THE PEOPLE. In John 3, Jesus never made a distinction but rather said in v. 16 "whoever believes in Him".

John 3
1There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.”
3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”
10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.[a] 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but[b] have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

How can a man be sure if he has the gift of Salvation if he does not received it?

 

[tribesman]

You cannot see what is inside of me...only God can. Are you God? Only God can judge me!

Its not fun when someone use the same table back to you? I do not condemn you. You read again your own posts here and maybe you understand why I said as I said.

You said you would not post to me anymore.

... i will not continue this because this will not give glory to God anymore. Last post for you my friend.

You said this and still continue to address me. What can I do then but to conclude that not even in this thing you can keep your word.

 

[tribesman]

My reply is for all the people who is reading my post. This for ALL THE PEOPLE. In John 3, Jesus never made a distinction but rather said in v. 16 "whoever believes in Him".

John 3
1There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.”
3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”
10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.[a] 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but[b] have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

How can a man be sure if he has the gift of Salvation if he does not received it?

God makes a distinction. Not all people are the people of God. Not all souls are sheep. But, yes, the call is for all, but not all will respond positively. Those who do so do it because they have been enabled by God to do so. It is God's work that they believe (John 6:29). Not because they used some "ability" to exercise some "free will".

Of course all people who receive salvation will be sure of it once they receive it. Why ask questions about such self-evident matters? Confusing.

 

[Flamingspirit]

God makes a distinction. Not all people are the people of God. Not all souls are sheep. But, yes, the call is for all, but not all will respond positively. Those who do so do it because they have been enabled by God to do so. It is God's work that they believe (John 6:29). Not because they used some "ability" to exercise some "free will".

Of course all people who receive salvation will be sure of it once they receive it. Why ask questions about such self-evident matters? Confusing.

Who does not belong to God? Are not all souls His? Of whom here can say that they chose to be here? Even Cain was a man from the LORD God.

 

[tribesman]

Who does not belong to God? Are not all souls His? Of whom here can say that they chose to be here? Even Cain was a man from the LORD God.

All souls are not sheep. All souls are not the Elect.

John.10


[11] I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
[12] But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
[13] The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
[14] I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
[15] As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
[16] And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
[17] Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
[18] No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
[19] There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.
[20] And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?
[21] Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?
[22] And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.
[23] And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.
[24] Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
[25] Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
[26] But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
[27] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
[29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
[30] I and my Father are one.

John.15

[13] Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
[14] Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
[15] Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
[16] Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

 

[Flamingspirit]

All souls are not sheep. All souls are not the Elect.

The sheep which are not of His fold (they didn't hear His voice or why make the distinction) are those who shall hear it and live. No, all souls aren't they elect but if the elect (firstfruit) is holy, then so is the called (lump) they came from.

 

[royalscot]

I view his destiny from this perspective...

Not that he was born to this destiny, but rather, God being able to see the future knew in advance what Judas would do and the choices that he would make which allowed God to inspire what was written about Judas and his destiny!

Just a thought or two...

to that I would add, that the jewish leaders, did not know either, and killed jesus,(meaning to, get rid of jesus). (if you think god, works both side of the coin, then think again)who had a full copy of the bible, at that time. so future history has found out , it was for told.
it for told in the bible, about the potters field. etc. at a guess 2 silver coins a day, comes to 15 days.(ie there must be a reason for the money, as in being payed to do a job) so was he a spy,(would ask, how long, was he a spy for) it was evident that his kiss, was a sign, to the other that were with him, that jesus is the one your looking for etc to say he lost or save, is in gods hands. (speculation, only can say so much.) after all it was the apostils that said he was lost.

 

[tribesman]

The sheep which are not of His fold (they didn't hear His voice or why make the distinction) are those who shall hear it and live. No, all souls aren't they elect but if the elect (firstfruit) is holy, then so is the called (lump) they came from.

That is some twisting of scripture you are doing there. Are you universalist?

 

[gotime]

Mat 26:24 The Son of man goeth, even as it is written of him: but woe unto that man through whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had not been born.
Mat 26:25 And Judas, who betrayed him, answered and said, Is it I, Rabbi? He saith unto him, Thou hast said.

Act 1:17 For he was numbered among us, and received his portion in this ministry.
Act 1:18 (Now this man obtained a field with the reward of his iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
Act 1:19 And it became known to all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch that in their language that field was called Akeldama, that is, The field of blood.)
Act 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be made desolate, And let no man dwell therein: and, His office let another take.

 

[royalscot]

Mat 26:24 The Son of man goeth, even as it is written of him: but woe unto that man through whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had not been born.
Mat 26:25 And Judas, who betrayed him, answered and said, Is it I, Rabbi? He saith unto him, Thou hast said.

Act 1:17 For he was numbered among us, and received his portion in this ministry.
Act 1:18 (Now this man obtained a field with the reward of his iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
Act 1:19 And it became known to all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch that in their language that field was called Akeldama, that is, The field of blood.)
Act 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be made desolate, And let no man dwell therein: and, His office let another take.

Zachariah 11, v13 and the lord said to them throw it to the potter....the handsome price at which they price me. so I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the lord to the potter.

 

[BradC]

God makes a distinction. Not all people are the people of God. Not all souls are sheep. But, yes, the call is for all, but not all will respond positively. Those who do so do it because they have been enabled by God to do so. It is God's work that they believe (John 6:29). Not because they used some "ability" to exercise some "free will".

Of course all people who receive salvation will be sure of it once they receive it. Why ask questions about such self-evident matters? Confusing.

You are just flat out wrong about the volition of man and you have always been wrong about it. Our volition is the most precious commodity of the human soul that God has given to man despite the fall. Our volition is free to be exercised toward or in the light of God or toward the darkness that is in the world because of evil and sin. God's plan is to draw us through lovingkindness to Himself through our volition, to want and to desire Him and to receive of His goodness. Without volition it is impossible for man to receive anything from God or exercise faith. The imputations that we are given when we believe upon Christ volitionally establish our standing with God, and to grow in grace and knowledge of Christ we must exercise our volition by bringing every thought into captivity unto the knowledge of God.