Why I don't believe in OSAS
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I answered your question to the best of my ability,
Originally Posted by KJV1611
What does "renew them to repentance" mean?
If you will look at my post with the quote, I have already requested anyone who understands the quote, to please share their understanding.
Never did I say definitively anyone has lost their salvation. I simply gave my understanding of the question you posed. God bless you, and please, if you know something about the entire quote, share it.
If you will look at my post with the quote, I have already requested anyone who understands the quote, to please share their understanding.
Never did I say definitively anyone has lost their salvation. I simply gave my understanding of the question you posed. God bless you, and please, if you know something about the entire quote, share it.
I answered your question to the best of my ability,
Originally Posted by KJV1611
What does "renew them to repentance" mean?
If you will look at my post with the quote, I have already requested anyone who understands the quote, to please share their understanding.
Never did I say definitively anyone has lost their salvation. I simply gave my understanding of the question you posed. God bless you, and please, if you know something about the entire quote, share it.
If you will look at my post with the quote, I have already requested anyone who understands the quote, to please share their understanding.
Never did I say definitively anyone has lost their salvation. I simply gave my understanding of the question you posed. God bless you, and please, if you know something about the entire quote, share it.
You responded
They were already saved, they didn't become unsaveable.
to phil112 and any witness here let me give a say
from me#33
and where does it say we even go to heaven?,
but be with Christ reigning with him for 1000 years
right here on plant earth over mortals.
you#35
You want to give me chapter and verse for that?
me#38
i asked you first, where does it say we go direct to heaven
you#40
John 14:2,3 "In my Father's house are many mansions:
Maybe you should familiarize yourself with the bible before you start talking about it.
me#45
yes lets look at this verse
3And if I go and (prepare a place for you),( I will come again,)
and receive you unto myself; that (where I am, there ye may be also)
it does not say you go to heaven does it ? but after he comes.
he prepares a place for you, when do you get it, and where Jesus is going?.
me#46 posted verses for you to read.
you#49You think Christ lives somewhere besides heaven?
- I know where he went, the question was,( I will come again,)
He is in heaven, he will come again, from heaven to meet us in the clouds,
which is when we are raised and changed, then come down to earth and land where left,
me#51my question still stands, a verse that acually says we go to heaven,
me#53 I asked if those verses posted where enough
- but you allready tried me and found quilty.
you#55Now you are simply lying. Not one verse said what you claim it does.
His words have proven you a liar. You should do something about that before you die.
- mabe you should of read or asked for more scripture, i would have posted then before accuse me.
Proverbs 30:6 "Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar."
me#59 i believe everyone who confess that Jesus is Christ is Lord,
can become a begotten Son of God, not yet born.
and OSAS is a big lie from the devil.
I said the bible says (we will reign) (with Christ) (1000 years)
here (on earth) (over mortals)"
you said "That is a lie."
"I allready answered you questions on post # 46" - lets look.
-but (be with Christ) (reigning with him) for (1000 years)
Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in (the first resurrection):
on such (the second death hath no power), but they shall (be priests) of (God) (and of Christ),
and (shall reign with him) a (thousand years).
- prety basic english even for me.
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with (a shout),
with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:
and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
- does not say we go down from heaven.
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds,
to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
-do you know those who rein with Christ have been changed at last trumph?.
and the mortal people that survive armageddon, Christ and us rules over on earth?.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
16And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
Armageddon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Millennialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
14For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles,
which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world,
to gather them to the battle of (that great day) of God Almighty.
-who shall inherit the Earth for an everlasting possession ?
and shall enter the “kingdom of heaven,”
Do not the meek inherent the earth ?
-I hope you come back to earth for a possesion.
we read all about what his kingdom of heaven is like,
reserved for use but not given or filled yet,
and those mansons is given in the new heavens and earth.
9But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered
into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me,
to give every man according as his work shall be.
- we do not get this when we die and go to heaven.
we do not fight with Christ in heaven againest satan,
we fight here on earth, with Jesus help ahead of us.
we will not be playing harps in Heaven, but working and teaching Gods way.
4And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations,
and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.
3For the Lord shall comfort Zion: he will comfort all her (waste places);
and he will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert (like the garden of the Lord);
joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving, and the voice of melody.
19The sun shall be no more thy light by day;
neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee:
but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
10Thus saith the Lord; Again there shall be heard in this place, which
ye say shall be desolate without man and without beast,
even in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem,
that are desolate, without man, and without inhabitant, and without beast,
12Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Again in this place, which is desolate without man and without beast,
and in all the cities thereof, shall be an habitation of shepherds causing their flocks to lie down
35And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden;
and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.
36Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the Lord build the ruined places,
and plant that that was desolate: I the Lord have spoken it, and I will do it.
- there is mortals on earth for 1000 years.
His words will I have proven I speak the truth, that he put on my lips.
youre words does prove nothing but youre fruits and what you have been taught,
- we have to be like children with a blank slate willing to learn,
and forget about the lies that the god of this world has spewed out to us.
21As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the Lord;
My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth,
shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed,
nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the Lord, from henceforth and for ever.
- have you ever heard this prayer ? you should read it.
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which (art in heaven), Hallowed be thy name.
10 (Thy kingdom come). (Thy will) (be done) (in earth), (as) it is (in heaven)
- we are all brothers in Christ, and all in this together.
add all these verses up , i will go find more for you again if need be.
new Jerusalem, (coming down) out of heaven from God,
made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.
from me#33
and where does it say we even go to heaven?,
but be with Christ reigning with him for 1000 years
right here on plant earth over mortals.
you#35
You want to give me chapter and verse for that?
me#38
i asked you first, where does it say we go direct to heaven
you#40
John 14:2,3 "In my Father's house are many mansions:
Maybe you should familiarize yourself with the bible before you start talking about it.
me#45
yes lets look at this verse
3And if I go and (prepare a place for you),( I will come again,)
and receive you unto myself; that (where I am, there ye may be also)
it does not say you go to heaven does it ? but after he comes.
he prepares a place for you, when do you get it, and where Jesus is going?.
me#46 posted verses for you to read.
you#49You think Christ lives somewhere besides heaven?
- I know where he went, the question was,( I will come again,)
He is in heaven, he will come again, from heaven to meet us in the clouds,
which is when we are raised and changed, then come down to earth and land where left,
me#51my question still stands, a verse that acually says we go to heaven,
me#53 I asked if those verses posted where enough
- but you allready tried me and found quilty.
you#55Now you are simply lying. Not one verse said what you claim it does.
His words have proven you a liar. You should do something about that before you die.
- mabe you should of read or asked for more scripture, i would have posted then before accuse me.
Proverbs 30:6 "Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar."
me#59 i believe everyone who confess that Jesus is Christ is Lord,
can become a begotten Son of God, not yet born.
and OSAS is a big lie from the devil.
I said the bible says (we will reign) (with Christ) (1000 years)
here (on earth) (over mortals)"
you said "That is a lie."
"I allready answered you questions on post # 46" - lets look.
-but (be with Christ) (reigning with him) for (1000 years)
Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in (the first resurrection):
on such (the second death hath no power), but they shall (be priests) of (God) (and of Christ),
and (shall reign with him) a (thousand years).
- prety basic english even for me.
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with (a shout),
with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:
and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
- does not say we go down from heaven.
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds,
to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
-do you know those who rein with Christ have been changed at last trumph?.
and the mortal people that survive armageddon, Christ and us rules over on earth?.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
16And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
Armageddon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Millennialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
14For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles,
which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world,
to gather them to the battle of (that great day) of God Almighty.
-who shall inherit the Earth for an everlasting possession ?
and shall enter the “kingdom of heaven,”
Do not the meek inherent the earth ?
-I hope you come back to earth for a possesion.
we read all about what his kingdom of heaven is like,
reserved for use but not given or filled yet,
and those mansons is given in the new heavens and earth.
9But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered
into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me,
to give every man according as his work shall be.
- we do not get this when we die and go to heaven.
we do not fight with Christ in heaven againest satan,
we fight here on earth, with Jesus help ahead of us.
we will not be playing harps in Heaven, but working and teaching Gods way.
4And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations,
and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.
3For the Lord shall comfort Zion: he will comfort all her (waste places);
and he will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert (like the garden of the Lord);
joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving, and the voice of melody.
19The sun shall be no more thy light by day;
neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee:
but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
10Thus saith the Lord; Again there shall be heard in this place, which
ye say shall be desolate without man and without beast,
even in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem,
that are desolate, without man, and without inhabitant, and without beast,
12Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Again in this place, which is desolate without man and without beast,
and in all the cities thereof, shall be an habitation of shepherds causing their flocks to lie down
35And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden;
and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.
36Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the Lord build the ruined places,
and plant that that was desolate: I the Lord have spoken it, and I will do it.
- there is mortals on earth for 1000 years.
His words will I have proven I speak the truth, that he put on my lips.
youre words does prove nothing but youre fruits and what you have been taught,
- we have to be like children with a blank slate willing to learn,
and forget about the lies that the god of this world has spewed out to us.
21As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the Lord;
My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth,
shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed,
nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the Lord, from henceforth and for ever.
- have you ever heard this prayer ? you should read it.
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which (art in heaven), Hallowed be thy name.
10 (Thy kingdom come). (Thy will) (be done) (in earth), (as) it is (in heaven)
- we are all brothers in Christ, and all in this together.
add all these verses up , i will go find more for you again if need be.
new Jerusalem, (coming down) out of heaven from God,
made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.
His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of
my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing,
neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence.
For in death there is no remembrance of thee:
in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye,
at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound,
and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of
my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing,
neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence.
For in death there is no remembrance of thee:
in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye,
at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound,
and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
So what were you saved from in the first place? If God saved you from sin and you decide to go back into sin and now you are unable to feel regret for sin. Are you not comfortable in sin. Can you be saved and continue in sin?
The sad part about this is people who think like this think they are doing God service? Light and darkness cannot mix. God is Light and in him is no darkness...sin is darkness...
The sad part about this is people who think like this think they are doing God service? Light and darkness cannot mix. God is Light and in him is no darkness...sin is darkness...
Re: Ho Hum, back to Hebrew 6, without quoting through 6:9 (Again)
they were once enlightened (we are enlightened) they tasted of the heavenly gift and were made partakers of the HS (we are tasting of the heavenly gift and are partakers of the HS). they tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come.(we are tasting the good word of God and the power of the age to come) Then they fell away. (We did not fall away)
If they were not saved then we are not saved either...
What happens to those who fall away.
it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame .
For the land which hath drunk the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them for whose sake it is also tilled, receiveth blessing from God: 8 but if it beareth thorns and thistles, it is rejected and nigh unto a curse; whose end is to be burned.
they were once enlightened (we are enlightened) they tasted of the heavenly gift and were made partakers of the HS (we are tasting of the heavenly gift and are partakers of the HS). they tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come.(we are tasting the good word of God and the power of the age to come) Then they fell away. (We did not fall away)
If they were not saved then we are not saved either...
What happens to those who fall away.
it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame .
For the land which hath drunk the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them for whose sake it is also tilled, receiveth blessing from God: 8 but if it beareth thorns and thistles, it is rejected and nigh unto a curse; whose end is to be burned.
P
You need to get away from the strong meat before it chokes you to death. You need to be drinking milk. Your maturity in the word of God is non-existent.
Revelation is a symbolic book, and for you to take it literally shows the lack of your biblical perception and understanding.
If you really want to understand a little about Revelation, start by listening to someone that has a solid grasp of symbolism, and much of the book itself.
The Revelation Explained by F. Smith - Full Text Free Book (Part 1/7)
Revelation is a symbolic book, and for you to take it literally shows the lack of your biblical perception and understanding.
If you really want to understand a little about Revelation, start by listening to someone that has a solid grasp of symbolism, and much of the book itself.
The Revelation Explained by F. Smith - Full Text Free Book (Part 1/7)
Eternal Security is Salvation
4 Ἀδύνατον γὰρ
τοὺς ἅπαξ φωτισθέντας,
γευσαμένους τε τῆς δωρεᾶς τῆς ἐπουρανίου καὶ
μετόχους γενηθέντας πνεύματος ἁγίου
5 καὶ καλὸν γευσαμένους θεοῦ ῥῆμα
δυνάμεις τε μέλλοντος αἰῶνος
6 καὶ παραπεσόντας,
πάλιν ἀνακαινίζειν εἰς μετάνοιαν,
[=again to renew to change-of mind]
ἀνασταυροῦντας ἑαυτοῖς τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ παραδειγματίζοντας.b 7 γῆ γὰρ ἡ πιοῦσα τὸν ἐπ᾿ αὐτῆς ἐρχόμενον πολλάκις ὑετὸν καὶ τίκτουσα βοτάνην εὔθετον ἐκείνοις δι᾿ οὓς καὶ γεωργεῖται, μεταλαμβάνει εὐλογίας ἀπὸ τοῦ θεοῦ· 8 ἐκφέρουσα δὲ ἀκάνθας καὶ τριβόλους, ἀδόκιμος καὶ κατάρας ἐγγύς, ἧς τὸ τέλος εἰς καῦσιν.
9 Πεπείσμεθα δὲ = But we have been persuaded
περὶ ὑμῶν, ἀγαπητοί, = concerning you, beloved
τὰ κρείσσονα = the better things
καὶ ἐχόμενα σωτηρίας, = and having salvation
εἰ καὶ οὕτως λαλοῦμεν. = if even thus we are speaking.
πάλιν ἀνακαινίζειν εἰς μετάνοιαν,
[=again to renew to metanoia =change-of mind]
This word for repentance is metanoia = change of mind; it does not mean to be sorry or turn over a new leaf. There is another Greek word for repent (metamelomai) which does mean to be sorry. Judas had that kind of repentance & hanged himself. This sorry-repentance is not the word used the few times that repent is used for salvation in the NT. The only repentance that saves is change from disbelief to belief.
One should indeed not infer salvation from Heb 6:4-9. I can see how persons might mistake this for losing salvation on a superficial reading, though lose & salvation don't occur until vs 9 where it negates that such persons were ever saved. 1 John 2 affirms this also, that apostasy proves one was never saved, never part of the body of Christ.
4 Ἀδύνατον γὰρ
τοὺς ἅπαξ φωτισθέντας,
γευσαμένους τε τῆς δωρεᾶς τῆς ἐπουρανίου καὶ
μετόχους γενηθέντας πνεύματος ἁγίου
5 καὶ καλὸν γευσαμένους θεοῦ ῥῆμα
δυνάμεις τε μέλλοντος αἰῶνος
6 καὶ παραπεσόντας,
πάλιν ἀνακαινίζειν εἰς μετάνοιαν,
[=again to renew to change-of mind]
ἀνασταυροῦντας ἑαυτοῖς τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ παραδειγματίζοντας.b 7 γῆ γὰρ ἡ πιοῦσα τὸν ἐπ᾿ αὐτῆς ἐρχόμενον πολλάκις ὑετὸν καὶ τίκτουσα βοτάνην εὔθετον ἐκείνοις δι᾿ οὓς καὶ γεωργεῖται, μεταλαμβάνει εὐλογίας ἀπὸ τοῦ θεοῦ· 8 ἐκφέρουσα δὲ ἀκάνθας καὶ τριβόλους, ἀδόκιμος καὶ κατάρας ἐγγύς, ἧς τὸ τέλος εἰς καῦσιν.
9 Πεπείσμεθα δὲ = But we have been persuaded
περὶ ὑμῶν, ἀγαπητοί, = concerning you, beloved
τὰ κρείσσονα = the better things
καὶ ἐχόμενα σωτηρίας, = and having salvation
εἰ καὶ οὕτως λαλοῦμεν. = if even thus we are speaking.
πάλιν ἀνακαινίζειν εἰς μετάνοιαν,
[=again to renew to metanoia =change-of mind]
This word for repentance is metanoia = change of mind; it does not mean to be sorry or turn over a new leaf. There is another Greek word for repent (metamelomai) which does mean to be sorry. Judas had that kind of repentance & hanged himself. This sorry-repentance is not the word used the few times that repent is used for salvation in the NT. The only repentance that saves is change from disbelief to belief.
One should indeed not infer salvation from Heb 6:4-9. I can see how persons might mistake this for losing salvation on a superficial reading, though lose & salvation don't occur until vs 9 where it negates that such persons were ever saved. 1 John 2 affirms this also, that apostasy proves one was never saved, never part of the body of Christ.
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so you accuse me again when verses in front of youre eyes
and not post but one verse in youre whole rebutal,
and then try giving a web page of someone elses view and work.
I have to slip my slippers off, and put on my shoes and walk away,
my garden needs water, no one here wants anything to drink.
and when i walk i usually not break a reed,
but sometimes you have to just throw them out of the temple.
my God have mercey on us all.
Re: Eternal Security is Salvation
Can one fall from grace ? We are saved by grace through faith.. but if for whatever reason one should fall from grace were they never saved?... has he not fallen from the the body....
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Can one fall from grace ? We are saved by grace through faith.. but if for whatever reason one should fall from grace were they never saved?... has he not fallen from the the body....
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Eternal Security is Salvation
Note that these things could be said of Judas. Is it honest of you not to keep quoting through 6:9?
NewB, sometimes I have hope for you that you are coming to the light, but frankly, from what you have posted, I have seen no reason to think that you actually trust the Lord Jesus as your Savior. You seem to discount Him to the role of chance-giver.
We don't have to speculate since the very passage, Hebrews 6:9 tells us that those red-colored attributes do not measure up to salvation.
9 Πεπείσμεθα δὲ = But we have been persuaded
περὶ ὑμῶν, ἀγαπητοί, = concerning you, beloved
τὰ κρείσσονα = the better things
καὶ ἐχόμενα σωτηρίας, = and having salvation
εἰ καὶ οὕτως λαλοῦμεν. = if even thus we are speaking.
1 John 2 affirms that persons show by leaving (apostasy) that they never were part of the Body of Christ. And 1 John 2 affirms the security of the believer, namely that they do not depart!
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for
if they had been of us, they would have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they all are not of us.
Note that these things could be said of Judas. Is it honest of you not to keep quoting through 6:9?
NewB, sometimes I have hope for you that you are coming to the light, but frankly, from what you have posted, I have seen no reason to think that you actually trust the Lord Jesus as your Savior. You seem to discount Him to the role of chance-giver.
We don't have to speculate since the very passage, Hebrews 6:9 tells us that those red-colored attributes do not measure up to salvation.
9 Πεπείσμεθα δὲ = But we have been persuaded
περὶ ὑμῶν, ἀγαπητοί, = concerning you, beloved
τὰ κρείσσονα = the better things
καὶ ἐχόμενα σωτηρίας, = and having salvation
εἰ καὶ οὕτως λαλοῦμεν. = if even thus we are speaking.
1 John 2 affirms that persons show by leaving (apostasy) that they never were part of the Body of Christ. And 1 John 2 affirms the security of the believer, namely that they do not depart!
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for
if they had been of us, they would have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they all are not of us.
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T
Just wanted to add something. You may ask "What about being saved by grace? Aren't we all just saved by grace, and not by our works, hence we can't do any works to lose our salvation?" There's a verse that explains the whole" saved by grace" stufff that OSAS believers spew like there's no tomorrow.Titus 2:11- For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,(12) Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;(13)Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;(14)Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
As we can all see, this is the grace that saves, it teaches people to be righteous and godly, so if you're claiming to be saved by grace, and yet you're living like the heathen world, then I would seriously question your salvation.
Further support for this is found in Matt 10:33 and Luke 12:9 where Jesus said "if you deny me before man, I will deny you before the Father."
Then we find in Titus that a person can be a denier of God, by their very works. Titus 1:16-They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. I would strongly suggest that yiu visit the website THE JESUS COMMANDMENT
As we can all see, this is the grace that saves, it teaches people to be righteous and godly, so if you're claiming to be saved by grace, and yet you're living like the heathen world, then I would seriously question your salvation.
Further support for this is found in Matt 10:33 and Luke 12:9 where Jesus said "if you deny me before man, I will deny you before the Father."
Then we find in Titus that a person can be a denier of God, by their very works. Titus 1:16-They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. I would strongly suggest that yiu visit the website THE JESUS COMMANDMENT
What was I saved from in the first place? I was saved from me, myself, & I -- one big sin, a child of Adam as described in Rom 1-3.
NewB, if God saved you from sin, then you ARE saved from sin.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sin. You cannot both be saved and not saved from sin.
Are you able to feel regret for denying the Savior & making Him a chance-giver? Are you comfortable in that sin of unbelief? How long do you continue in disbelief?
He promises:
Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved.
When will you actually do this & trust Him with your eternal destiny, and stop claiming that He only gives you a chance at it. May the Lord enlighten your darkness.
1. COME, ye sinners, poor and wretched,
Weak and wounded, sick and sore,
Jesus ready stands to save you,
Full of pity joined with power;
He is able, He is able,
He is willing; doubt no more;
He is able, He is able,
He is willing; doubt no more.
2. Ho! ye needy, come and welcome,
God’s free bounty glorify;
True belief and true repentance,
Every grace that brings us nigh,
Without money, without money,
Come to Jesus Christ and buy!
Without money, without money,
Come to Jesus Christ and buy!
3. Let not conscience make you linger,
Nor of fitness fondly dream;
All the fitness He requireth
Is to feel your need of Him;
This He gives you, this He gives you;
‘Tis the Spirit’s rising beam;
This He gives you, this He gives you;
‘Tis the Spirit’s rising beam.
4. Come, ye weary, heavy laden,
Bruised and mangled by the fall;
If you tarry till you’re better,
You will never come at all!
Not the righteous, not the righteous,
Sinners Jesus came to call;
Not the righteous, not the righteous,
Sinners Jesus came to call.
5. View Him agonizing* in the garden;
Lo! your Maker prostrate lies;
On the bloody tree behold Him;
Hear Him cry, before He dies;
“It is finished!” “It is finished!”
Sinner, will not this suffice?
“It is finished!” “It is finished!”
Sinner, will not this suffice?
6. Lo! the incarnate God ascended,
Pleads the merits of His blood;
Venture on Him, venture wholly,
Let no other trust intrude;
None but Jesus, none but Jesus,
Can do helpless sinners good;
None but Jesus, none but Jesus,
Can do helpless sinners good.
NewB, if God saved you from sin, then you ARE saved from sin.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sin. You cannot both be saved and not saved from sin.
Are you able to feel regret for denying the Savior & making Him a chance-giver? Are you comfortable in that sin of unbelief? How long do you continue in disbelief?
He promises:
Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved.
When will you actually do this & trust Him with your eternal destiny, and stop claiming that He only gives you a chance at it. May the Lord enlighten your darkness.
1. COME, ye sinners, poor and wretched,
Weak and wounded, sick and sore,
Jesus ready stands to save you,
Full of pity joined with power;
He is able, He is able,
He is willing; doubt no more;
He is able, He is able,
He is willing; doubt no more.
2. Ho! ye needy, come and welcome,
God’s free bounty glorify;
True belief and true repentance,
Every grace that brings us nigh,
Without money, without money,
Come to Jesus Christ and buy!
Without money, without money,
Come to Jesus Christ and buy!
3. Let not conscience make you linger,
Nor of fitness fondly dream;
All the fitness He requireth
Is to feel your need of Him;
This He gives you, this He gives you;
‘Tis the Spirit’s rising beam;
This He gives you, this He gives you;
‘Tis the Spirit’s rising beam.
4. Come, ye weary, heavy laden,
Bruised and mangled by the fall;
If you tarry till you’re better,
You will never come at all!
Not the righteous, not the righteous,
Sinners Jesus came to call;
Not the righteous, not the righteous,
Sinners Jesus came to call.
5. View Him agonizing* in the garden;
Lo! your Maker prostrate lies;
On the bloody tree behold Him;
Hear Him cry, before He dies;
“It is finished!” “It is finished!”
Sinner, will not this suffice?
“It is finished!” “It is finished!”
Sinner, will not this suffice?
6. Lo! the incarnate God ascended,
Pleads the merits of His blood;
Venture on Him, venture wholly,
Let no other trust intrude;
None but Jesus, none but Jesus,
Can do helpless sinners good;
None but Jesus, none but Jesus,
Can do helpless sinners good.
Re: Eternal Security is Salvation
We don't have to think about Hebrews 6:4-9, since God Himself explains it in vs 9
9 Πεπείσμεθα δὲ = But we have been persuaded
περὶ ὑμῶν, ἀγαπητοί, = concerning you, beloved
τὰ κρείσσονα = the better things
καὶ ἐχόμενα σωτηρίας, = and having salvation
εἰ καὶ οὕτως λαλοῦμεν. = if even thus we are speaking.
But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak:
I would call Judas a metochos [μέτοχος] of the Spirit. He went out as an apostle in Matthew 10.
"These twelve Jesus sent forth, and charged them, saying, Go not into any way of the Gentiles, and enter not into any city of the Samaritans: 6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons: freely ye received, freely give."
"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Whenever you come to a passage that seems to lead you to think that someone might lose salvation (though those words never occur in the Bible), just keep on reading a bit further. See if the Lord Himself doesn't interpret the passage for you.
We don't have to think about Hebrews 6:4-9, since God Himself explains it in vs 9
9 Πεπείσμεθα δὲ = But we have been persuaded
περὶ ὑμῶν, ἀγαπητοί, = concerning you, beloved
τὰ κρείσσονα = the better things
καὶ ἐχόμενα σωτηρίας, = and having salvation
εἰ καὶ οὕτως λαλοῦμεν. = if even thus we are speaking.
But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak:
I would call Judas a metochos [μέτοχος] of the Spirit. He went out as an apostle in Matthew 10.
"These twelve Jesus sent forth, and charged them, saying, Go not into any way of the Gentiles, and enter not into any city of the Samaritans: 6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons: freely ye received, freely give."
"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Whenever you come to a passage that seems to lead you to think that someone might lose salvation (though those words never occur in the Bible), just keep on reading a bit further. See if the Lord Himself doesn't interpret the passage for you.
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OSS = ONCE SAVED, SAVED!
That is false, Kenneth, all sins are forgiven to the one who trusts Christ as Savior. He paid for them all on the cross.
Kenneth you are making things up that are not in Heb 6:4-9.
What is serious straying from the truth is to suppose that a man who hears the promise: Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & you shall be saves, then believes, would not then be saved -- as if God would break His word.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.
It is walking in sin to deny the Savior & downgrade Him to chance-giver. It is absurd for those who are ever going on about walking in sin to deny the only way of escape from sin. Denying that Christ is the Savior will not help any one escape from sin. Telling people not to trust the Lord with their eternal destiny does not reduce sin.
For an unsaved man who trusts in self-righteous good works for salvation (like water baptism) to lecture the saints on how their theology causes sin, is absurd.
If you are ever to escape sin, including that of denying eternal security (the content of salvation), you must plead spiritual bankruptcy and depend on the Savior.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.
Instant Salvation in Past Tense
“Your faith has saved you; go in peace.” (Luke 7:50)
th Zacchaeus.
Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham.” (Luke 19:9)
Evidence of Zacc's instant salvation is found in his instant statement:
But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.” (Luke 19:8)
Cornelius was instantly saved when he trusted the Lord Jesus, and no water baptism was needed nor joining any Eastern or Western organization. (see Acts 10:43-48). Compare this to what Peter said in Acts 15:11: We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are. (Acts 15:11)
Consider Eph 2:5 [God] made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.
Is there any hint of an extended process between dead & alive? Salvation is a change from death to life, with no intermediate zombie state. 2 Cor 5: Old things are passed away, behold all has become new. It is all or nothing here.
In addressing Tim on common salvation, prophet Paul remarks to Tim how the Christian's salvation is past. There is no future to transpire before Paul and Tim should call themselves saved.
[the Lord God] who has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, - 2 Tim 1:9
Again, prophet Paul wrote in Titus the truth that we presently regard ourselves as saved in the past.
he [God] saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, (Titus 3:5)
The future continued salvation state after belief is guaranteed by the past justification by the blood of the Lord Jesus.
Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! (Rom 5:9) Now how is anyone going to be half-way justified? You either are or you are not. The transition must be instant.
Salvation from God's wrath is guaranteed in the future, & that requires forgiveness of all sins, regardless of when committed.
Instant Salvation Is Realized in Present Time
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes [present tense] him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. (1 John 5:12,13)
There is a clear dichotomy: You either have or have not the Son of God with eternal life. The change must be instantaneous. Eternal life is a present possession for the believer, not just a future reward.
Salvation is clearly presented as a present reality:
Men are divided clearly into two groups, believers and non-believers, the saved & the perishing.
he who believes has everlasting life. (John 6:47)
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. (1 Cor 1:18)
For we are to God the aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing. (2 Cor 2:15)
It is clear the whosoever believes in Him has everlasting life and does not come into condemnation. This salvation must be instantaneous in that it is a new birth, a recreation and only depends upon trusting the SAvior (not the chance-giver). One either is a saint or an ain't. The moment a non-believer becomes a believer, he must be saved, for scripture guarantees salvation to the believer. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved. It is clear that the Philippian jailer was at once saved, for he believed.
That is false, Kenneth, all sins are forgiven to the one who trusts Christ as Savior. He paid for them all on the cross.
Kenneth you are making things up that are not in Heb 6:4-9.
What is serious straying from the truth is to suppose that a man who hears the promise: Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & you shall be saves, then believes, would not then be saved -- as if God would break His word.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.
It is walking in sin to deny the Savior & downgrade Him to chance-giver. It is absurd for those who are ever going on about walking in sin to deny the only way of escape from sin. Denying that Christ is the Savior will not help any one escape from sin. Telling people not to trust the Lord with their eternal destiny does not reduce sin.
For an unsaved man who trusts in self-righteous good works for salvation (like water baptism) to lecture the saints on how their theology causes sin, is absurd.
If you are ever to escape sin, including that of denying eternal security (the content of salvation), you must plead spiritual bankruptcy and depend on the Savior.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.
Instant Salvation in Past Tense
“Your faith has saved you; go in peace.” (Luke 7:50)
th Zacchaeus.
Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham.” (Luke 19:9)
Evidence of Zacc's instant salvation is found in his instant statement:
But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.” (Luke 19:8)
Cornelius was instantly saved when he trusted the Lord Jesus, and no water baptism was needed nor joining any Eastern or Western organization. (see Acts 10:43-48). Compare this to what Peter said in Acts 15:11: We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are. (Acts 15:11)
Consider Eph 2:5 [God] made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.
Is there any hint of an extended process between dead & alive? Salvation is a change from death to life, with no intermediate zombie state. 2 Cor 5: Old things are passed away, behold all has become new. It is all or nothing here.
In addressing Tim on common salvation, prophet Paul remarks to Tim how the Christian's salvation is past. There is no future to transpire before Paul and Tim should call themselves saved.
[the Lord God] who has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, - 2 Tim 1:9
Again, prophet Paul wrote in Titus the truth that we presently regard ourselves as saved in the past.
he [God] saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, (Titus 3:5)
The future continued salvation state after belief is guaranteed by the past justification by the blood of the Lord Jesus.
Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! (Rom 5:9) Now how is anyone going to be half-way justified? You either are or you are not. The transition must be instant.
Salvation from God's wrath is guaranteed in the future, & that requires forgiveness of all sins, regardless of when committed.
Instant Salvation Is Realized in Present Time
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes [present tense] him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. (1 John 5:12,13)
There is a clear dichotomy: You either have or have not the Son of God with eternal life. The change must be instantaneous. Eternal life is a present possession for the believer, not just a future reward.
Salvation is clearly presented as a present reality:
Men are divided clearly into two groups, believers and non-believers, the saved & the perishing.
he who believes has everlasting life. (John 6:47)
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. (1 Cor 1:18)
For we are to God the aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing. (2 Cor 2:15)
It is clear the whosoever believes in Him has everlasting life and does not come into condemnation. This salvation must be instantaneous in that it is a new birth, a recreation and only depends upon trusting the SAvior (not the chance-giver). One either is a saint or an ain't. The moment a non-believer becomes a believer, he must be saved, for scripture guarantees salvation to the believer. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved. It is clear that the Philippian jailer was at once saved, for he believed.