Why I keep the Sabbath FYI.

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KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
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Thanks for you thoughts and opinions, P1LGR1M.
 
Oct 21, 2015
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Well, I'm sorry it doesn't make sense to you. There's not much more I can say to you about it than I already have.

Perhaps we should move along.
That's fine, but according to what you have stated Paul said in Rom 14:5 he would be inviting people to sin, if Saturday is set aside under the new covenant as the Sabbath day, and you are disobeying God by not keeping it. I am sure you would agree with that
 

KohenMatt

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Jun 28, 2013
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That's fine, but according to what you have stated Paul said in Rom 14:5 he would be inviting people to sin, if Saturday is set aside under the new covenant as the Sabbath day, and you are disobeying God by not keeping it. I am sure you would agree with that
Thanks for you thoughts and opinions on the matter, James.
 
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P1LGR1M

Guest
Show me where God asked Adam and Eve to sacrifice a lamb to pay for their sin, or accept that you are wrong and defending an error, when God's Word, which I gave and you have rejected, clearly states otherwise. You can't, because no such Scripture exists, yet you refuse to admit it! And you further falsely accuse me, and compound your error.

Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
Semantics. Scripture doesn't state that the Lord bathed but we can probably assume He did, right?

Why would Adam and Eve be different than any other fallen of mankind?

Granted that God made them coats of skins in the original offense, but that doesn't mean that they lived the rest of their lives without offering up sacrifice.

The fact that it was expected of their children points to this.

Again...where did Abel learn what to offer?

The answer is...God told him. Whether He told him directly or through his parents is irrelevant.

Vicarious death is simply the consistent theme in Scripture, and it is a detraction from the Word of God to impose an Age or Era where there was no remission of sins, because if that were the case...mankind would have ceased to exist.

And that is the last post to you (in this thread), lol, until you can summon the courage to answer the question...

...did an animal or animals die or did God simply create those skins?


God bless.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Why would Adam and Eve be different than any other fallen of mankind?
God provided the sacrifice required, just like He has for the rest of fallen humanity. Why you feel a need to pretend otherwise is beyond me. Why you want to pretend that God's Word said something it does not is beyond me. You are promoting a falsehood.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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We humans have a hard time seeing the truth and acting out in faith when God tells us to do something....Like telling Adam and Eve they would have to sacrifice a lamb to pay for their sin pointing forward to Jesus sacrifice. Abel tended sheep and gladly obeyed God by sacrificing a lamb. But Cain thought since he tilled the ground it was o.k. to bring a gift of sacrifice of vegetables and fruits and got upset with God and Abel because God accepted Abel's sacrifice but not Cain's. Because Cain wanted to do it man's way and not God's requested way.

I don't understand when God asks us to do something and we ignore it and do things our own way....
God did not tell them that...

God's Word never said that, not now, not then, and not despite all the obfuscations thrown up by a certain poster to deflect from the issue of this obvious error. I am really sorry to find out that some of you do not agree with what God's Word explicitly states.


 
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P1LGR1M

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Originally Posted by P1LGR1M
Why would Adam and Eve be different than any other fallen of mankind?

God provided the sacrifice required, just like He has for the rest of fallen humanity. Why you feel a need to pretend otherwise is beyond me. Why you want to pretend that God's Word said something it does not is beyond me. You are promoting a falsehood.
...did an animal or animals die or did God simply create those skins?


God bless.
 
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P1LGR1M

Guest
God did not tell them that...

God's Word never said that, not now, not then, and not despite all the obfuscations thrown up by a certain poster to deflect from the issue of this obvious error. I am really sorry to find out that some of you do not agree with what God's Word explicitly states.


You are only sorry that certain posters do not agree with your assertion that God did not tell Adam and Eve they would have to offer up sacrifice, lol.

Did animals die or did God create those skins out of thin air?


God bless.
 

kohelet

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2012
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The title of the thread is(why i keep the Sabbath FYI). So why are people that do not keep Sabbath come in and tell us why we are wrong in keeping Sabbath? It's goofy, and happens every time. If some one starts a thread that condones sin i stay away, and i don't go in telling them how they condone sin. It's just weird to me that when a thread is started where like-minded people choose to share their experience in obedience, how others come in and try turning it upside down.

Well Don, because this is a forum, not a blog. A reader can respond. It's not goofy; it's the way it works. If a person wants to present a lecture, he can hire a hall, invite people to listen to him and stipulate no Q and A. Easy.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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You are only sorry that certain posters do not agree with your assertion that God did not tell Adam and Eve they would have to offer up sacrifice, lol.
God's Word says no such thing, and I am truly sorry you are not in agreement with what is plainly stated therein, but that is certainly your prerogative. I stand on the Word of God. You stand on the error of promoting a half truth, pretensions, and false accusations.
 

kohelet

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2012
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If we have to believe all the things the Jew accused Jesus of he couldn’t keep the law perfectly and then He couldn’t bring salvation. If you believe Jesus did not keep the Torah perfectly you have a salvation problem.
​But that's the thing, Gand'. This is not only the Jews' view but also John's, who wrote the Gospel.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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The half truth you promote is that you agree it points forward to Jesus but then say they had to make the sacrifice when God's Word plainly states that God provided the covering. Any Christian should be in agreement with that. If you disagree with the fact that God has provided our propitiatory payment for sin, I doubt you could call yourself a Christian, so it is no small matter.
 
Oct 21, 2015
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So..if you dont accept the New Covenant ? You cannot call yourself a Christian .
I don't know if I would want to necessarily jump to that conclusion concerning people who insist all must observe a Saturday sabbath
Do you think it is possible that many, do not look to the Holy Spirit for guidance, the inner conviction he wants to bring, but rather rely on the written code?
I would sincerely like your view on that.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
I don't know if I would want to necessarily jump to that conclusion concerning people who insist all must observe a Saturday sabbath
Do you think it is possible that many, do not look to the Holy Spirit for guidance, the inner conviction he wants to bring, but rather rely on the written code?
I would sincerely like your view on that.
Well anyone that can read the New Testament (covenant) should be able to see the truth of what is written and be able to rightly divide between the two covenants.. I think its the lack of honest intention to look at what is written that puts these Sabbath folks into the category that seems to deny the New Covenant at the very core of its doctrine.
 
Oct 21, 2015
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Well anyone that can read the New Testament (covenant) should be able to see the truth of what is written and be able to rightly divide between the two covenants.. I think its the lack of honest intention to look at what is written that puts these Sabbath folks into the category that seems to deny the New Covenant at the very core of its doctrine.
I would have to draw a distinction myself between Sabbath observers who do not try and insist all observe a set Sabbath day and those who do, for that is in line with what Paul wrote in Rom 14.
For those who insist you must obey it, if I am honest, I just don't feel a oneness with them at all in the faith, it is like something that should be there is missing, and it seems unbridgeable
However, I have never judged anyone to not be a Christian who says they are one. Maybe some believe Christians should at times do that, it is something I have always refused to do
 
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gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
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The thing is though, gotime, that the day on which God rested was like none of the others. We read no "and there was evening and morning, a seventh day". It was perpetual blessing that Adam and Eve were created into. This was the result of God's blessing the perpetual Sabbath and Adam and Eve enjoyed this perfect relationship with God until they sinned. It is therefore wrong to say "this day was special because it was made by God to be Holy to be set apart." No day needed to be set apart before sin. It was perpetually day and nothing but blessed.

The first we read about the Sabbath of the commandment, a 24-hour period, is in Exodus 16, shortly before the giving of the law. This sort of thing also happened in the case of the Passover.

There are two reasons for the giving of the commandment to keep the Sabbath day holy. In Exodus 20 it is because God rested and blessed the day and in Deuteronomy 5 the children of Israel are to keep the day to remember their deliverance out of slavery in Egypt.

It therefore foreshadowed the coming of Jesus, who would deliver us from bondage to sin and restore uninterrupted rest and the relationship with God that Adam and Eve had enjoyed in the beginning.

You're right to say "sin is not remembering to keep the Sabbath holy", gotime, but you're focussed on the shadow rather than the reality. Sin is indeed not seeing Jesus, our Sabbath rest, as holy and acknowledging God's provision of a Saviour in him. But there is no sin in not observing the weekly Sabbath or we would certainly be reading about it, under the new covenant, in the New Testament.
What you have said here sounds great and has the appearance of sound reasoning, but you have missed something.

The commandment itself which acts as a reminder stipulates that it was a "day", now There is the possibility that this word can be used to mean a longer time but the context gets rid of that possibility.

The whole point of the commandment which you have missed is that it is a reminder that the 7th day is Holy. as seen here:

Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

The commandment does not say, I make it holy now. It says that it was made Holy at creation:

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.


Where your error seems to be is in your reading of the commandment itself. You seem to think and correct me if I am wrong. But you seem to think the 7th day became Holy at the giving of the commandment or some time close.

But the text is not an establishment but a reminder hence the word "Remember" and the stating at the end of the commandment that it was made Holy on the 7th day of creation.

There is no question here that the 7th day was also considered a day not a period of time ending or unending. You have to ignore the text to come to that.

It is in fact the commandment that solidifies that Creation took 6 literal days not 6 periods of time. It also eliminates the gap theory.

You also call it a shadow clearly ignoring its origin and purpose given by God himself. My original OP deals with this already.

SO with respect I have to disagree with your opinion on this matter. I say opinion because you did not use scripture as I did for my position on this. And the scripture clearly debunks this Idea you have given.
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
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Well anyone that can read the New Testament (covenant) should be able to see the truth of what is written and be able to rightly divide between the two covenants.. I think its the lack of honest intention to look at what is written that puts these Sabbath folks into the category that seems to deny the New Covenant at the very core of its doctrine.
One thing that is not always taken into consideration about Sabbath-keepers is that keeping the Sabbath and being under the New Covenant don't have to be mutually exclusive.

I am saved by grace through faith in my Savior who died in my place. Because of that sacrifice, I am made clean before Him and my sin is forgiven. His Spirit dwells in me and leads me to live how God sees fit. (For the sake of this post, this is a very basic understanding of the New Covenant.)

But God has called us to be His children, bride. priests, ambassadors, apostles, messengers, etc. We live a life by His leading to further His Kingdom. As a response to the grace shown me, I want every part of my life to be honoring to Him. Me keeping the Sabbath as a weekly rest does not impede or nullify that grace . If I were keeping the Sabbath as a means to impress God or seek favor or justification, then I would be out of order (and some folks do that.) My obedience to any other aspect of the Law is similar. I am under no curse of the Law because of my Savior, so even if I keep it imperfectly, I am not punished. What the Sabbath and other aspects of the Law does is show me practical ways to live a life worthy of the calling given to me. I believe these commands are valid and still applicable for all Christians, just in proper relationship to grace.

While there are some who use the Law inappropriately, not all do. And again, the 2 don't have to be mutually exclusive.
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
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By the way as for the foreshadowing of Jesus you forget that all 10 commandments sit in this same place. The 10 begin with:

Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,
Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

So they are all within this context. It should also be noted that they were given Before or after they were saved from bondage?

After.