What people like you do not understand or rather can not understand is that historically speaking the reason why some Jewish people all of a sudden began worshipping God on Sundays is because they saw "something" mind boggling on one of the Sunday morning and that "something" was Jesus risen on Sunday. Ever since that day these tiny group of Jewish people began gathering together on Sunday mornings to sing hymns. So the fact that Jewish people began all of a sudden worshipping on Sundays (despite clear commandment to worship on Saturdays) is actually one of the lines of evidence that something remarkable happened on one of the Sunday morning 2000 years ago.
Why I keep the Sabbath FYI.
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P
What is understood is that you are denying a Bible Basis, just as Sabbath Keepers deny a very simple truth by disregarding everything we must consider on the matter.
It has already been acknowledged that we do not have a record of "God tell Adam and Eve to sacrifice a lamb to pay for their sins," but...
...we don't take that to the extreme that (1) God never instructed Adam and Eve in regards to sacrifice for sins, and (2) that God completely covered Adam and Eve's sin by making coats of skins, and (3) that Adam, Eve, or anybody for that matter understood the Protoevangelium.
The Gospel was a Mystery to the Old Testament Saints, and in those Ages the means of remission of sins was through the vicarious deaths of animals.
This is bad as trying to maintain Sabbath Keeping by (1) poining out the Sabbath was declared holy and we do not have a record that is is ever said not to be (though we are told specifically we are not liable for keeping the Covenant of Law, which command of Sabbath Observance falls under, and (2) by ignoring specific teachings that follow (namely instruction directly to the Church in doctrinal matters) the Law.
Because it is not wrong from a New Testament understanding. It is only wrong in the sense that we do not have a record of God telling them, but as has been pointed out, neither do we have a record of Abel and Cain being instructed either, but we see Abel commended for his offering, and Cain's rejected. From a New Testament perspective we can deduce that, just as the rest of the Old Testament illustrates, what is going on is failure of one to obey the will of God in regards to offerings, and obedience by another.
You are demanding the very thing Sabbath Keepers demand...a shallow perspective not taking into account everything relevant to the discussion.
It's not conjecture.
Christ's Sacrifice, which I will remind you not one Old Testament Saint understood (because it was mystery, secret, and the hidden wisdom of God), is contrasted to Abel's here...
Hebrews 12:24
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
We know Abel was not sacrificed for the remission of sins, so the obvious issue in view is the sacrifice Abel offered.
As mentioned before, we see the shedding of blood (death) is a Bible Basic in regards to sin and remission of sins:
Hebrews 9:22
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
The writer of Hebrews could balance the Old Testament because he was aware of that which was revealed to us in the First Century, which previous generations were not privy to. He could say that Christ's Sacrifice was better than those offered under Law and before Law (which is what he does many times in this Epistle), whereas the Jews under Law were in danger of returning to the sacrifices of the Law.
And the danger the Jews were in, of returning to a mindset that placed the Law and it's services on a par with Christ and even worse, elevated them above His Sacrifice...is the same danger some Sabbath Keepers run the risk of.
And it is concluded the same way you deny that God never told Adam and Eve about sacrifice for sin, sin, death, and the temporary remission of sins gained through the provision of God in that Age.
But probably the worst thing is to say that "God covered their sins" with those coats of skins and present it as...that was it. Those skins were hardly the "end of the story" for Adam and Eve, that was just the beginning of a long line of sin in which sacrifice as we see it in the lives of the most notable characters of the Ages was the only means of remission.
You go too far. You are making those coats of skins some kind of once for all sacrifice which cannot be supported by Scripture in any way.
Abel offered up from his flock and his offering was respected, Cain of his works and it was not respected.
And that sin was present is seen in Abel's murder.
Did the coats of skins cover that murder?
He covered that initial sin. That doesn't negate an entire Old Testament Record of offering up sacrifice.
That Age is unique in that the Law was not given, so we distinguish between that Age and the Age of Law, where sacrifice for sin is set down in specificity.
But we can say that vicarious death is an Old Testament Standard that consisted of animals dying in the stead of the sinner.
But you are denying this is the case for Adam and Eve. And we know that is not the case...because God made coats of skins for them, not coats of leaves, not coats of moss, not coats of polyester...skins.
Just like keeping the Sabbath is God's will for New Covenant born again believers is plainly and simply stated in the Word of God, right?
So say Sabbath Keepers.
And these conclusions are derived from ignoring the Whole Counsel of the Word.
I would agree, but...they didn't know that.
It was mystery not yet revealed.
Even after the Cross many had to be warned of trying to merge the two Covenants. Galatians and Hebrews are specific to this error.
Saying that sacrifice for sins under Old Testament standard "paid for sins" is in error, that has already been acknowledged.
Those sacrifices were. like the coats of skins, a temporary covering of sin. Only Christ's Sacrifice paid the penalty of sin for those He vicariously died for.
That does not mean we dogmatically state that the costs of skins "covered" their sins in any kind of finality. They were fallen human beings and would have had to offer up for sins themselves. Their children were obviously aware of this, Abel being obedient, so we do not see it as "speculation" that Abel was following what God had told them. And it does not matter if God told them through their parents, directly, or even through a cousin far removed, we still see the revelation as having GOd as the Source.
That is true, it is not hinted at, it is a conclusion drawn from balancing Old And New Testament revelation.
Just like the conclusion that it is okay if a weak brother or sister thinks Sabbath Keeping is what God commands, as long as they don't judge others for thinking they misunderstand Scripture and draw conclusions of exclusion, meaning they exclude all relevant revelation on the issue.
God bless.
Sorry about the delay. I've been sick. I'm still a bit off-colour so be gentle with me.
Actually, gotime, it doesn't. For that to happen, the context would need to provide evidence of, for example, Adam and Eve keeping the Sabbath (despite there being no work for them to rest from and no lack of intimacy with God and therefore no lack of spiritual refreshing). But the evidence isn't there. If it was a day in the sense you are giving it, we would have God resting on the Sabbath and resuming his work on the eighth day (albeit not creative work, as he had completed that). There is nothing in the text that tells us that this happened either. You say that without scripture references what I say is merely my opinion.
In that case, the onus on you to provide scripture references of the kind you say I needed to give is that much greater. If you can't (and you won't be able to), what you write is conjecture. There is nothing in the text that would lead us to conclude that the seventh day was not ongoing (and you're right, יוֹם can mean day, time or year [TWOT, p.390; AHCL, pp. 302,303]), an extended period of time in which Adam and Eve enjoyed the blessing of God. And as I've said, there is no evidence elsewhere in the Bible of anyone else keeping the Sabbath until the time of Moses. That is the context.
Now, if there are passages I'm overlooking, which ones would they be?
Are you sure I missed this? Look back at what I wrote. Of course the day is holy. The mistake you're making is to think that God established the Sabbath as a perpetual memorial at the conclusion of his creation. He didn't. He established it as a perpetual memorial at Sinai. This is what the Bible says - you even quote the passages for us!
Gotime, my friend, look. The meanings of words, whether English or Hebrew, are evidently not your long suit. English first. The word "remember" has more meanings than you give it credit for. One definition is "to retain in the memory; bear in mind" (Macquarie Dictionary Online / SLV). We can be told to remember something we have been made aware of a moment ago. It doesn't have to have happened in the more distant past. As for the Hebrew, not only does the word, זָכַר, have this meaning too, but also means, when used in the context of a day, "to observe, commemorate" (TWOT, 551, p.241; Biblearc). So either way you're mistaken. This is not my opinion. These are dictionary definitions.
You're repeating yourself - and adding "context" to arrive at your conclusion, as I've pointed out above.
What we're talking about though, is the seventh day. In the absence of a "there was evening and morning, a seventh day", we must conclude that the Sabbath was ongoing. Why mention the gap theory? It isn't relevant here. You seem to be clutching at anything to somehow give weight to your argument. This doesn't.
Is this the bit you mean:
"... even though the law is gone in Christ we have seen that the Sabbath was not dependant on the law but rather the law was to serve as a reminder of why the Sabbath was already holy according to the 4th commandment." ?
It was holy but it was not established "as a perpetual memorial of [God's] completed work" at creation when he blessed and hallowed it. This is totally absent from the text and is something you can't avoid. Evidence of Adam and Eve or anyone else keeping the Sabbath until Exodus 16 is nowhere to be found. Now I'm repeating myself.
Gotime, what you have written is bluster and padding. It's inflated talk. You of course have to toe the SDA line on this, arguing Fundamental Belief #6, which adds to Scripture to bolster the Adventist argument for the weekly Sabbath. And I think you're seeing the silliness of the position. Since it was made a commandment at Sinai rather than established as a memorial at creation, in your own words, "the commandment was done away with ... for those who have come to Christ."
Actually, gotime, it doesn't. For that to happen, the context would need to provide evidence of, for example, Adam and Eve keeping the Sabbath (despite there being no work for them to rest from and no lack of intimacy with God and therefore no lack of spiritual refreshing). But the evidence isn't there. If it was a day in the sense you are giving it, we would have God resting on the Sabbath and resuming his work on the eighth day (albeit not creative work, as he had completed that). There is nothing in the text that tells us that this happened either. You say that without scripture references what I say is merely my opinion.
In that case, the onus on you to provide scripture references of the kind you say I needed to give is that much greater. If you can't (and you won't be able to), what you write is conjecture. There is nothing in the text that would lead us to conclude that the seventh day was not ongoing (and you're right, יוֹם can mean day, time or year [TWOT, p.390; AHCL, pp. 302,303]), an extended period of time in which Adam and Eve enjoyed the blessing of God. And as I've said, there is no evidence elsewhere in the Bible of anyone else keeping the Sabbath until the time of Moses. That is the context.
Now, if there are passages I'm overlooking, which ones would they be?
Are you sure I missed this? Look back at what I wrote. Of course the day is holy. The mistake you're making is to think that God established the Sabbath as a perpetual memorial at the conclusion of his creation. He didn't. He established it as a perpetual memorial at Sinai. This is what the Bible says - you even quote the passages for us!
Gotime, my friend, look. The meanings of words, whether English or Hebrew, are evidently not your long suit. English first. The word "remember" has more meanings than you give it credit for. One definition is "to retain in the memory; bear in mind" (Macquarie Dictionary Online / SLV). We can be told to remember something we have been made aware of a moment ago. It doesn't have to have happened in the more distant past. As for the Hebrew, not only does the word, זָכַר, have this meaning too, but also means, when used in the context of a day, "to observe, commemorate" (TWOT, 551, p.241; Biblearc). So either way you're mistaken. This is not my opinion. These are dictionary definitions.
You're repeating yourself - and adding "context" to arrive at your conclusion, as I've pointed out above.
What we're talking about though, is the seventh day. In the absence of a "there was evening and morning, a seventh day", we must conclude that the Sabbath was ongoing. Why mention the gap theory? It isn't relevant here. You seem to be clutching at anything to somehow give weight to your argument. This doesn't.
Is this the bit you mean:
"... even though the law is gone in Christ we have seen that the Sabbath was not dependant on the law but rather the law was to serve as a reminder of why the Sabbath was already holy according to the 4th commandment." ?
It was holy but it was not established "as a perpetual memorial of [God's] completed work" at creation when he blessed and hallowed it. This is totally absent from the text and is something you can't avoid. Evidence of Adam and Eve or anyone else keeping the Sabbath until Exodus 16 is nowhere to be found. Now I'm repeating myself.
Gotime, what you have written is bluster and padding. It's inflated talk. You of course have to toe the SDA line on this, arguing Fundamental Belief #6, which adds to Scripture to bolster the Adventist argument for the weekly Sabbath. And I think you're seeing the silliness of the position. Since it was made a commandment at Sinai rather than established as a memorial at creation, in your own words, "the commandment was done away with ... for those who have come to Christ."
Hi Karraster,
I hadn't heard this. A search led me here:
Why do Christians worship on Sunday | Sabbath keeping in early Christianity and the church, Sunday-Law of Constantine - is Sunday mentioned in the Greek Scriptures, sabbath vs sunday worship, did jesus keep the sabbath, worship of the sun and pagan w
where a church historian discusses the idea.
What is understood is that Scripture says one thing and you turn around and say it means something entirely different than what is plainly stated. You endlessly defend your egregious error and call my direct quoting of Scripture my opinion. Your long winded posts to make excuses for your opinion while trying to justify your position do nothing to change that fact.
If one chooses to observed the Sabbath that's between them and the Father, if the don't that is between them and the Father, each of us must walk according to what we have chosen to believe and each will surely be judged according to what we have done , if you believe you must observe the Sabbath do it, however to attempt to convince others to believe or do anything is at best a waste of time, as is attempting to convince others NOT to, each of us is capable of praying and reading the scripture, we are told to do so, we are all on the journey to life and we all seek to please Him who calls, (at least we should) so rather then being concerned with what others do or do not do, maybe just walking with Him in this life and allowing Him to govern and direct our path is the best way, He has called each of us and well knows what we need by way of knowledge and understanding way more then we do for ourselves, let alone for others, just try the best we can to live according to Proverbs 3:5-6 , Matt. 6:33 and Isa. 26:3, I think if we master this all these contentions will cease and we can actually walk in the peace we are all seeking.....just my two cents worth ....
G
Sabbath means rest...in the new testament this refers to the holy ghost and receiving it...you labor in the flesh until you receive the holy ghost then you enter into Christs rest and he is now in you and takes over and it is his work that now works in you and you rest....this is the rest and the refreshing...i have found no new testament commandment that holds me to observe this 7th day Sabbath.....Paul being full of the Holy Ghost writes in Galatians 4:9 and 4:10 and 4:11...
But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
Ye observe days, and months, and years.
I am afraid of you, lest i have bestowed upon you labor in vain.
....in fact read the whole chapter so you know this is not taken out of context. When Least brings up Romans 14:4 -14:6
it backs this up perfectly.
....and they all said AMEN.
But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
Ye observe days, and months, and years.
I am afraid of you, lest i have bestowed upon you labor in vain.
....in fact read the whole chapter so you know this is not taken out of context. When Least brings up Romans 14:4 -14:6
it backs this up perfectly.
....and they all said AMEN.
People like you are just so unaware that the issue of “Sabbath Keeping” is exactly the same as the issue of “Consuming Blood”
The Old Testament have clear prohibition against consuming blood for example in Genesis 9:2-4, where God tells Noah, "Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything. But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it."
All of a sudden a tiny Jewish group began drinking "blood" as part of Eucharist. This was so radically different and abhorrent to vast majority of Jewish people
Exactly the same with “Sabbath Keeping”. For centuries Jewish people worshipped God on Sabbath and then all of a sudden some tiny group began worshipping God on Sundays as well. We have historical evidence that the earliest Christians began gathering on Sundays singing hymns on Sundays. That’s a radical change from the historical point of view.
The reason why some Jewish people all of a sudden began drinking "blood" or worshipping God on Sundays is because they experience "something" mind boggling 2000 years ago.
The fact that some Jewish people began all of a sudden drinking "blood" or worshipping God on Sundays (despite clear commandments not to do so) are actually few of the lines of evidence that something extraordinary happened 2000 years ago.
people like you are just so unaware of that
The Old Testament have clear prohibition against consuming blood for example in Genesis 9:2-4, where God tells Noah, "Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything. But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it."
All of a sudden a tiny Jewish group began drinking "blood" as part of Eucharist. This was so radically different and abhorrent to vast majority of Jewish people
Exactly the same with “Sabbath Keeping”. For centuries Jewish people worshipped God on Sabbath and then all of a sudden some tiny group began worshipping God on Sundays as well. We have historical evidence that the earliest Christians began gathering on Sundays singing hymns on Sundays. That’s a radical change from the historical point of view.
The reason why some Jewish people all of a sudden began drinking "blood" or worshipping God on Sundays is because they experience "something" mind boggling 2000 years ago.
The fact that some Jewish people began all of a sudden drinking "blood" or worshipping God on Sundays (despite clear commandments not to do so) are actually few of the lines of evidence that something extraordinary happened 2000 years ago.
people like you are just so unaware of that
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G
its amazing how some people will stick to the law of Moses, which no man could keep...hence the need for Christ to come on the scene....and try convince others to do so...you deny Christ and his sacrifice and bringing in of the new covenant one built on better promises.... if we are to keep the sabbath as they did in the old testament...why do we need the blood of Christ, i can just go sacrifice a ram or something...nay nay nay you vipers you deceive many...and comparing apples to oranges.. "Sabbath Keeping" and "Consuming Blood".... laying burdens on the very elect. If i am to keep the sabbath according to the law of Moses how should i go about it....where do i find the ashes of the red heifer? how do i go about preparing as they did? do you keep the sabbath as it was custom? there is more to it than just taking a day off.
The first chapter of Isaiah starting in verse 10....
Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom, give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of beasts; and i delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs or of he goats.
when ye appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, i cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting
your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them
And when ye spread forth your hands, i will hide mine eyes from you; when ye make prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.
you want to keep the sabbath go ahead, but you cannot command it upon new testament believers, scripturally.
The first chapter of Isaiah starting in verse 10....
Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom, give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of beasts; and i delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs or of he goats.
when ye appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, i cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting
your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them
And when ye spread forth your hands, i will hide mine eyes from you; when ye make prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.
you want to keep the sabbath go ahead, but you cannot command it upon new testament believers, scripturally.
P
Let's see what the New Testament has to say about consuming blood:
Acts 15:19-21
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
[SUP]20 [/SUP]But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
Acts 15:27-31
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP]We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
[SUP]29 [/SUP]That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation.
Acts 21:23-25
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.
Now would you, or any Sabbath Keeper, particularly those of you who are Gentiles...please explain why you violate the Scriptures?
This alone shows that no burden has been placed on Gentiles to Keep the Law or the Sabbath?
There is not one single verse in the New Testament that supports Sabbath Keeping.
Keeping the Sabbath holy falls under the Covenant of Law, you are not going to change that. You are not going to change the fact that we have specific Scripture that makes it clear that Gentiles are not saved by keeping the Law, they are not commanded to keep the Law, and that Christians are not to judge others in regards to holydays.
Now, Sabbath Keepers...address this Scripture and show why you do not have to keep it.
God bless.
P
So show Scripture that (1) teaches "God did not instruct Adam and Eve in regards to sin and sacrifice, and (2) how your doctrine nullifies something that threads it's way from the Garden to Calvary.
Were the coats of skins from animals...did animals die to cover their sin?
It's a very simple question.
God bless.
Were the coats of skins from animals...did animals die to cover their sin?
It's a very simple question.
God bless.
G
When i came this way.. or should i say when the quickening happened...nothing of my own self...I was amazed at how simple the scriptures where to read and understand...but i am just as amazed at how many can not read and understand the scriptures plainly...they bat at a gnat and swallow a camel. mincing words and endless genealogies...and then these scriptures comes to mind...
Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and has revealed them unto babes.
Luke 10:21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father, for it seemed good in thy sight.
The sacrifice of Christs blood isn't going to cover you if you don't understand the necessity of it...and you want to continue with Sabbath day blood sacrifices of rams and goats and lambs and such as is required in order to keep the Sabbath according to law.
Yet the Jews would rather do that and crucify their own Messiah...saying let his blood be upon us and our children(wow what a frightening curse to put upon yourselves and your children)...denying the One who will bring them the true rest.
That is why most people that i have come across(most being of Jewish decent, but not limited to) continue with the old law of Moses...cause if they accept Christ and his teachings and sacrifice they have to admit that it was their fathers who murdered him and they are guilty of his blood.(speaking specific to the Jewish nation) that's why they so vehemently stick to the old law and observe days and such.... denying Christ almost entirely...they basically crucify him afresh and put him to an open shame....what a frightening spot to be in
Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and has revealed them unto babes.
Luke 10:21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father, for it seemed good in thy sight.
The sacrifice of Christs blood isn't going to cover you if you don't understand the necessity of it...and you want to continue with Sabbath day blood sacrifices of rams and goats and lambs and such as is required in order to keep the Sabbath according to law.
Yet the Jews would rather do that and crucify their own Messiah...saying let his blood be upon us and our children(wow what a frightening curse to put upon yourselves and your children)...denying the One who will bring them the true rest.
That is why most people that i have come across(most being of Jewish decent, but not limited to) continue with the old law of Moses...cause if they accept Christ and his teachings and sacrifice they have to admit that it was their fathers who murdered him and they are guilty of his blood.(speaking specific to the Jewish nation) that's why they so vehemently stick to the old law and observe days and such.... denying Christ almost entirely...they basically crucify him afresh and put him to an open shame....what a frightening spot to be in
Funny how in your inability to accept a simple, straightforward line of Scripture you must then make up all manner of things as if I have to defend all the rationalisations and justifications you give to prop up your opinion while you continually and adamantly refuse to accept what is plainly stated. Why do you add to what Scripture says, and insistently add to what I have said and then demand I support what I have not said? You deviate terribly and stubbornly refuse to admit you are in error.
The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them.
If you want to pretend that means they were made to sacrifice an animal or two or three or half a dozen as well as being instructed in the purpose of sacrifice to pay for their sin to point forward to the ultimate reality in the foreshadowing of Christ's sacrifice when none of that was revealed to us you are certainly free to do so, but when the revealed written Word of God tells me that God did something, I am going to agree with the Word of God and not your perversion of it.
The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them.
If you want to pretend that means they were made to sacrifice an animal or two or three or half a dozen as well as being instructed in the purpose of sacrifice to pay for their sin to point forward to the ultimate reality in the foreshadowing of Christ's sacrifice when none of that was revealed to us you are certainly free to do so, but when the revealed written Word of God tells me that God did something, I am going to agree with the Word of God and not your perversion of it.
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P
Funny how you never quote all of what I have actually said, lol. And when you do...you still resort to your emotional responses and ignore what is actually said.
Here it is again:
So show Scripture that (1) teaches "God did not instruct Adam and Eve in regards to sin and sacrifice, and (2) how your doctrine nullifies something that threads it's way from the Garden to Calvary.
Were the coats of skins from animals...did animals die to cover their sin?
It's a very simple question.
God bless.
Here it is again:
So show Scripture that (1) teaches "God did not instruct Adam and Eve in regards to sin and sacrifice, and (2) how your doctrine nullifies something that threads it's way from the Garden to Calvary.
Were the coats of skins from animals...did animals die to cover their sin?
It's a very simple question.
God bless.
You Sabbath Keepers have got such a little knowledge of history. Do you not know that there does exist historical evidence of very early Christians worshipping God on Sundays?
Do you not realize that something extraordinary happened 2000 years ago and that "something" caused radical changes such as worshiping God on Sunday, drinking "blood" as part of Holy Communion, treating Jesus as God, treating Holy Spirit as God and so on
May be if I quote a scholar it will help you
John Shelby, visiting lecturer at Harvard Divinity School, writes: “….these were Jewish men and in the Jewish tradition the most sacred part of the whole tradition was that God was one, nothing could stand in the presence of God and yet there was something about it, whatever it was, so powerful and so overwhelming that these Jewish men had to expand their definition of God so that it was big enough to include Jesus of Nazareth, and they were no longer able to look at Jesus of Nazareth without seeing him as part of who God is..…something big and powerful actually happened to produce this change.…that God was reconceived to be not just one person but to include Christ, that lives of both Jesus’ disciples and his family were radically transformed, that Sunday became the new Holy day rather than the Jewish Sabbath, that content of the gospel message became Jesus himself, that Jerusalem became the center of Christianity and that leading members of the anti-Christian religious establishment became followers of Christ ….All of this is historical data that begs for an adequate explanation ……”
Do you not realize that something extraordinary happened 2000 years ago and that "something" caused radical changes such as worshiping God on Sunday, drinking "blood" as part of Holy Communion, treating Jesus as God, treating Holy Spirit as God and so on
May be if I quote a scholar it will help you
John Shelby, visiting lecturer at Harvard Divinity School, writes: “….these were Jewish men and in the Jewish tradition the most sacred part of the whole tradition was that God was one, nothing could stand in the presence of God and yet there was something about it, whatever it was, so powerful and so overwhelming that these Jewish men had to expand their definition of God so that it was big enough to include Jesus of Nazareth, and they were no longer able to look at Jesus of Nazareth without seeing him as part of who God is..…something big and powerful actually happened to produce this change.…that God was reconceived to be not just one person but to include Christ, that lives of both Jesus’ disciples and his family were radically transformed, that Sunday became the new Holy day rather than the Jewish Sabbath, that content of the gospel message became Jesus himself, that Jerusalem became the center of Christianity and that leading members of the anti-Christian religious establishment became followers of Christ ….All of this is historical data that begs for an adequate explanation ……”