Why I keep the Sabbath FYI.

[P1LGR1M]

Originally Posted by P1LGR1M

So show Scripture that (1) teaches "God did not instruct Adam and Eve in regards to sin and sacrifice, and (2) how your doctrine nullifies something that threads it's way from the Garden to Calvary.

"The text does not say anything to the effect that God told them to sacrifice anything to pay for their sin. God covered their sin. Period. Scripture says: The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. It does not say God told them to do it at all..." this is what I said, and what you have been arguing against all along.

My doctrine? You really don't have a clue. I have clearly stated that God's Word does not say something and you ask me to show you where it does say that. Your request is ridiculously nonsensical, and shows how asinine you are being. What you need to do is show the Scriptures that have God making Adam and Eve sacrifice any number of animals to pay for their sin, and instructing them in the purpose of sacrifice, which is what you have been defending. No great walls of text showing things that came later, with other people. Just the Scripture that has God telling Adam and Eve they must make the sacrifice to pay for their sin, and instructing them in the purpose of sacrifice. What cult teaches this perversion of Scripture you are pushing here?

Still no answer, simply emotional bluster and false witness.

You have clearly stated "God did not tell Adam and Eve to sacrifice a lamb to pay for their sins."

All of this is addressed (the errors of the statement) in detail, but you are still left with the burden of showing that God did not instruct Adam and Eve in regards to sacrifice for sins (vicarious animal death).

You are creating an argument from silence, which is contrasted with my own presentation of the Biblical Principle of vicarious death for atonement and remission of sins which runs from the Garden of Eden (and includes the coats of skins) to Calvary.

But your false witness is not an argument of silence, it is simply a matter of your discernment, which is exposed as lacking with every post you make.

Originally Posted by P1LGR1M

And if they track the discussion they will also see there is quite a bit you have not addressed.

I prove you wrong when you said I never do something, but instead of correcting yourself and maybe even apologising for the deception you were caught in, you cling to your position.

I have proved you wrong" coupled with continual evasion of some very simple questions can only be seen as a valid statement by those suffering delusions of grandeur.

It's kind of like leaning against a building and telling passerbys that you are holding it up.

And if they also consider the responses, they will see that you will not address the points raised.

Until you admit the fact that Scripture says one thing and you twist it beyond recognition and claim it means something else, what you call the points you raise are immaterial for reasons articulated multiple times. Somehow you have completely failed to grasp that as the point of our exchanges, despite my directing your attention there repeatedly. I'm sure anyone with a reasonable amount of intelligence could figure that out. Let's get back on point.

You deny what Scripture explicitly states.

Thanks for illustrating the truth of my statement.

Let's try it again:


So show Scripture that (1) teaches "God did not instruct Adam and Eve in regards to sin and sacrifice," and (2) how your doctrine nullifies something that threads it's way from the Garden to Calvary.

Were the coats of skins from animals...did animals die to cover their sin?

It's a very simple question.

God bless.

 

[Magenta]

I have answered many times. It is not an argument from silence when the text explicitly states one thing, which I have multiple times quoted, and you twist it to mean something completely different. When I say, the text does not say this, and you keep asking me to show you where the text does not say this, you are being unreasonable beyond the pale. I am done with you and your abominations of Scripture, false accusations, and asinine requests.

 

[P1LGR1M]

I have answered many times. It is not an argument from silence when the text explicitly states one thing, which I have multiple times quoted, and you twist it to mean something completely different. When I say, the text does not say this, and you keep asking me to show you where the text does not say this, you are being unreasonable beyond the pale. I am done with you and your asinine requests.

You were done when you lashed out at the member that made the original statement.

You cannot answer the questions because you are more concerned with your image than with Doctrinal Discussion.

Here it is again, since you will not address the post that addresses your error in detail:


So show Scripture that (1) teaches "God did not instruct Adam and Eve in regards to sin and sacrifice," and (2) how your doctrine nullifies something that threads it's way from the Garden to Calvary.

Were the coats of skins from animals...did animals die to cover their sin?

It's a very simple question.

God bless.

 

[blue_ladybug]

In reference to Pilgrim's post, animal sacrifices WERE used back then, though as far as A&E are concerned, I don't know.

 

[P1LGR1M]

In reference to Pilgrim's post, animal sacrifices WERE used back then, though as far as A&E are concerned, I don't know.

Perhaps you will answer the question she evades: were the coats of skins the result of animal's dying or did God simply create them out of thin air?


God bless.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Perhaps you will answer the question she evades: were the coats of skins the result of animal's dying or did God simply create them out of thin air?


God bless.

As I said, I don't really know, but common sense tells me that probably animals died. BUT God can do anything so maybe he DID pluck them out of thin air. That's about as honestly as I can answer your question.

 

[Magenta]

As I said, I don't really know, but common sense tells me that probably animals died. BUT God can do anything so maybe he DID pluck them out of thin air. That's about as honestly as I can answer your question.

That is a good answer, BLB Just so you know, I have never denied that any animal died... that is just one of many of the other's asinine obfuscations. The text plainly states that God did something, and others have twisted that to mean that God did not do something. That is the crux of the discussion. They are saying that when the text says God did something, it really means He did not. They are saying that when the text says God did something, it really means that somebody else did that something. Do you believe the text when it says,
The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. ?

 

[blue_ladybug]

That is a good answer, BLB Just so you know, I have never denied that any animal died... that is just one of many of the other's asinine obfuscations. The text plainly states that God did something, and others have twisted that to mean that God did not do something. That is the crux of the discussion. They are saying that when the text says God did something, it really means He did not. They are saying that when the text says God did something, it really means that somebody else did that something. Do you believe the text when it says,
The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. ?


I'm pretty sure Adam and Eve didn't know how to sew, or have a sewing machine,lol.. but I'm pretty sure the bible is accurate in it's telling of who created the skins.

*wonders why I'm typing in Magenta's font and color.*

 

[Magenta]

That is a good answer, BLB Just so you know, I have never denied that any animal died... that is just one of many of the other's asinine obfuscations. The text plainly states that God did something, and others have twisted that to mean that God did not do something. That is the crux of the discussion. They are saying that when the text says God did something, it really means He did not. They are saying that when the text says God did something, it really means that somebody else did that something. Do you believe the text when it says,
The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. ?

I'm pretty sure Adam and Eve didn't know how to sew, or have a sewing machine,lol.. but I'm pretty sure the bible is accurate in it's telling of who created the skins.

*wonders why I'm typing in Magenta's font and color.*

I fixed your font colour for you... the quote box had not been closed...

Any ways, I am half expecting some of these people to say that when the text says God created the heavens and the earth, it really means He did not do it, but somebody else did. I wonder who they will say did it?

 

[P1LGR1M]

As I said, I don't really know, but common sense tells me that probably animals died. BUT God can do anything so maybe he DID pluck them out of thin air. That's about as honestly as I can answer your question.

I would agree, God could have plucked them out of thin air, but, most would probably agree that from a physical standpoint we might sat that "Creation" was completed on Day Six (some would say on Day One, and that which follows was the arranging of that which was created). So we would, as we see in Creation, expect that this "covering" was drawn from existing elements already present, and that the coats of skins replace something Adam and Eve had drawn from in regards to existing elements, fig leaves.

Now from a physical standpoint, there sin was "covered," right? Why did God replace that which covered their nudity with something else? Coats of skins?

This is where we consider the pattern shown to us beginning with Abel on up to Calvary. Also we see the Writer of Hebrews state...


Hebrews 9:22

King James Version (KJV)


[SUP]22 [/SUP]And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.


We understand Paul when he writes...


Romans 6:23

King James Version (KJV)


[SUP]23 [/SUP]For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.



...and that all sin bears the consequence of death.

And when we balance Scripture and leave what is there intact, it is not a matter of doubt as to whether vicarious sacrifice for sin is a Biblical Pattern which is basic. In order for us to think "God did not tell Adam and Eve not to sacrifice" we then leap into speculations that this principle would make unlikely. Such as, "God did not instruct Adam and Eve, but instead kept this secret from them and only told Abel."

We could then suggest that perhaps Adam and Eve were in some way relieved of a responsibility God imposed on everyone else after the Fall.

Is that reasonable? I don't think so.

So I would suggest, as I have already, that it is quite likely that God did indeed instruct Adam and Eve, and the first lesson was the death of the animals or animals from which He made those coats of skins. Could it be the skin or hide of a man in view? The skin of teeth? Would that fit the pattern that threads it's way through the Old Testament?

But it is a good issue to consider, lol.

Thanks again for answering the question.


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

That is a good answer, BLB Just so you know, I have never denied that any animal died... that is just one of many of the other's asinine obfuscations. The text plainly states that God did something, and others have twisted that to mean that God did not do something. That is the crux of the discussion. They are saying that when the text says God did something, it really means He did not. They are saying that when the text says God did something, it really means that somebody else did that something. Do you believe the text when it says,
The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. ?

I'm pretty sure Adam and Eve didn't know how to sew, or have a sewing machine,lol.. but I'm pretty sure the bible is accurate in it's telling of who created the skins.

*wonders why I'm typing in Magenta's font and color.*

Why would you think they couldn't sew? They were, apart from Christ, the greatest examples of humanity ever known to man.

I think sewing would have been a pretty easy feat to accomplish.


Genesis 3

King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.


Their sewing of fig leaves together could be compared to Cain's own efforts in contrast with Abel's:


Genesis 4

King James Version (KJV)

1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering:


Works cannot produce remission of sins, nor can that which is demanded of God be substituted by works which we have a wrought. Adam and Eve sought to cover their sin, which only highlighted there sin, lol. But isn't that the way it is with fallen man? We do those things which we think cover our sins, yet those things, when compared to the Word of God only expose...more sin?

And that's it for me in this thread. My apologies to the OP for the rabbit trail and disruption.


God bless.

 

[Grandpa]

If you want to think that when I say Sabbath "keeper" I mean to say I or anyone else should keep it perfectly, then that is your own semantic interpretation. Would you rather I say "Sabbath-Observer"? Would that make you feel better?

And yes, Jesus tells us to be perfect. Are we? No. And I'm not going to pretend otherwise. The only "perfection" I have is the way God sees me through the sacrifice of Jesus.



Again, your misunderstanding.

Well, yes, I don't get it.

You can't call yourself sabbath keeper because you don't keep the sabbath.

And you can't say you honor God by your sabbath keeping when you don't keep it. Again I refer to the commandment to not murder. If I say I 'observe' the commandment don't murder to honor God, but I don't do it perfectly, then I am in fact murdering and not honoring God... Right?

I completely agree with your view of the way God sees you. Maybe we are getting somewhere... lol


I believe I observe the sabbath by resting from my work at the law. I also don't believe I do this perfectly. I find myself working at the law from time to time because I forget and get confused. But then I always remember the Lord Jesus Christ and what He does/did/will do for me.

 

[Grandpa]

Perhaps you will answer the question she evades: were the coats of skins the result of animal's dying or did God simply create them out of thin air?


God bless.

Were the coats of skins even from animals at all?

The text doesn't really say.

It just says coats of skin.

People mostly assume that it is from animals and that God is the one that sacrificed them. But I don't find this written.

 

[kohelet]

Hi
I completely agree with you on the Sabbath issue. But in accordance with what Paul wrote, I have no issue with anyone wanting to observe a specific day of the week ad a set Sabbath, the problem is when they insist everyone else must do the same
Someone in Thi thread who believes all should observe a Saturday Sabbath accepts in romans 14:5 Paul is stating in reality on this issue a person is free to observe a specific day as a Sabbath or consider every day alike. This means the person charged with being the chief exponent of the new covenant is being ignored in favour of what is written under the old covenant, there is no way around that
That is an extremely serious mistake to make in my view and not one Tha could possibly be holy spirit inspired.
Have your Sabbath day by all means, but do not contradict the person charged with being the chief explained of the new covenant to the world by insisting everyone must follow what you choose to do

Exactly, James. What the New Testament does not say is that not keeping the Sabbath is sin.

 

[kohelet]

Sorry but there you are wrong. I don't believe this because I have to defend the fundamentals. I do because I can see it plainly in the Bible. But as I said my OP states why the Sabbath began at creation and as I see it that is not difficult to see and understand.

Ps Part of the reason I eventually became a SDA was when God convicted me and showed me the Sabbath through my own personal studies.

I have showed in the OP that the commandment serves as a reminder not an institution.

Gotime, you're a nice enough sort of bloke but have certainly not shown that the commandment is a reminder rather than an institution, not even remotely. Observance of the day was instituted at Sinai and not earlier - and nothing anywhere in Scripture says otherwise. The Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, does not convict people of something that's contrary to his word.

This might result from reading the SDA translation, The Clear Word Bible, but this version has been twisted to conform to Mrs White's aberrant ideas.

 

[DiscipleDave]

So here is why I keep the Sabbath, and guess what it is not because the 4th commandment says so. Don't get me wrong the 4th commandment did play a role in why I keep the Sabbath but it is not the reason I keep the Sabbath.

Let me explain,

See I know the Law shows us sin as it is written:


Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

So the law does not save or justify but gives us or shows us what sin is.

So why then is the 4th commandment there? here is what it says:
Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

So sin is not remembering to keep the Sabbath Holy, but why? what is so important about this 7th day Sabbath that makes it sin not to keep it? The answer I find is in the commandment itself as it is written:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

So the reason is because God created and on this day he rested/stopped and blessed this day and sanctified it or set it apart for Holy use.

This sparked my interest, out of all the 10 commandments 9 of them make sense as sin, don't kill, steal, put God first etc. They all make sense, but the one commandment that makes the least sense is the 4th why keep the 7th day Holy? This is why in verse 11 God gives us a reason.

God wants us to know why it is sin not to keep the 7th day Sabbath, he wants us to understand that the reason He wants us to keep it Holy is because that was the day He made Holy, that He blessed after making the heavens and the earth and us.

So I went back to see this and just as the commandment says so I found as it is written:
Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

So suddenly I realized that this day did not become holy when God gave the commandment, but was already holy right back at the beginning before sin even came to this world. And it was Holy because God made it so. This day was special because it was made by God to be Holy to be set apart. Its not different because of a law, its different because God made it so.

What then is the purpose of the law on this point? It serves as a reminder, a call to remember that the day is holy because God made it so as it is written:

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

So the law did exactly what it was meant to do, it pointed out what was sin by showing what was good.

The 7th day Sabbath needs no law to apply because all the commandment does is remind us of the fact that the 7th day was made holy from the beginning. It calls us to remember that it is set apart from other days by God because He rested on that day and made it special.

So you may be wondering, why many who keep the Sabbath use the 4th commandment so much when talking to those who do not keep it. The answer is simple, It is the commandment that points out sin by what is good. To those who break it the law serves to remind and point them to the unchangeable fact that the 7th day has been Holy right back from the foundation of the world.

The law only serves to remind us and point us to why we should be keeping the Sabbath.

If you can show me one verse, just one, where Jesus tells us Christians to continue to keep the Sabbath, or just one verse where an Apostle teaches us Christians to continue to keep the Sabbath, then i will believe that we Christians MUST keep the Sabbath also.

Do you know why i already know you can't show one verse where Jesus or any Apostle instructs us Christians to continue to keep the Sabbath, because they NEVER did so. Seems to me, as important as this generation makes Sabbath keeping, it would seem there would be at least one verse, where they Holy Ghost would have instructed an Apostle to mention, as instructions in righteousness, to continue to keep the Sabbath Holy unto the Lord, but not one verse teaches that.

The Israelites were COMMANDED to keep the Sabbath Holy. Anyone who has read the entire Old Testament, will understand and know how important that was, throughout the entire Old Testament, Sabbath Keeping was extremely important, yet you read the New Testament, and it is extremely silent on the matter, as if NOT important, as it was in the Old Testament. Why? Because the 10 commandments was the OLD COVENANT, made between God and the Israelite people.

Exo 34:27 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.
Exo 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

Are we under that covenant? NO, we are under a New Covenant with Jesus Christ, NOT under the covenant which was the 10 commandments made to and for the Israelite people. Believe the Word of God not what men teach.

Here is an undeniable TRUTH.

Jesus does NOT tell us to continue to keep the Sabbath Holy.
Apostles do NOT tell us to continue to keep the Sabbath Holy.
So why does this generation teach that Christians MUST continue to keep the Sabbath Holy? Because they do not know or understand the Truth. But in Truth Adding yet more bondage to the children of God, Do this, Don't do that, keep this, Don't keep that, eat this, but don't eat that, bondage. The Law of Liberty gives us Christians liberty from the Do's and Don'ts.

^i^ Responding to OP

 

[tik]

...It's the idea that God changed the Sabbath to Sunday that I take issue with, and fortunately there are not many here who do...

God did not change Sabbath to Sunday. The Old Testament is abundantly clear that Sabbath is the Holy day which should be kept that way.

What went on is that “something” astonishing took place on Sunday morning. That “something” together with Jesus radical statements (revealing him to be God) as well as his radical actions (healing on Sabbath; allowing his disciples to pick the heads of grain on Sabbath) has caused Sunday to become Holy day and Sabbath to become obsolete.

So “Sabbath Keepers” who maintain that Sunday is an ordinary day while Sabbath is the Holy day just miss the point.

What point is that? Here it is:

2000 years ago “something” extraordinary happened on Sunday morning which caused Sunday to become Holy day

In summary then - “Sabbath Keepers” do not understand that something “extraordinary” happened on Sunday morning. They do not understand that that “something” got compounded by Jesus healings on Sabbath and Jesus actions on Sabbath.

Anyway “Sabbath” is the Old covenant! I am not sure why you keep going on about it. IT IS THE OLD COVENANT!!!!!!!

The Christian church is under the New Covenant, established by the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. The Bible nowhere describes Christians setting aside the Sabbath day as the day of worship. The only Scriptures that describe Christians in any sense meeting on the Sabbath are in fact pointing to evangelistic efforts at Jewish synagogues, which met on the Sabbath day. Acts 3:2 records the early Christians meeting every day. The Bereans studied the Scriptures every day (Acts 17:11). Acts 20:7 and 1 Corinthians 16:2 both mention Christians meeting on the first day of the week. There is no evidence in the New Testament that the apostles or the early Christians in any sense observed the Sabbath day as the prescribed day of worship.

Traditionally, Christians have held their primary corporate worship services on Sundays, the first day of the week, in celebration of Christ’s resurrection, which occurred on a Sunday (Matthew 28:1; Mark 16:2; Luke 24:1; John 20:1). It is important to understand, though, that Sunday is not the commanded day of corporate worship, either. There is no explicit biblical command that either Saturday or Sunday be the day of worship. Scriptures such as Romans 14:5–6 and Colossians 2:16 give Christians freedom to observe a special day or to observe every day as special. God’s desire is that we worship and serve Him continually, every day, not just on Saturday or Sunday.

 

[gotime]

Gotime, you're a nice enough sort of bloke but have certainly not shown that the commandment is a reminder rather than an institution, not even remotely. Observance of the day was instituted at Sinai and not earlier - and nothing anywhere in Scripture says otherwise. The Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, does not convict people of something that's contrary to his word.

This might result from reading the SDA translation, The Clear Word Bible, but this version has been twisted to conform to Mrs White's aberrant ideas.

Trust me its not from reading the SDA translation, I am not sure I have ever read it to be honest. I prefer the KJV personally. while I will read others I find it to be the most accurate and most easily founded from History. I don't really like any of the modern translations as far as study goes.

As to the Sabbath being instituted at Sinai I disagree, Yeah shocker

First the Sabbath comes up in Exodus 16 before they were drawn in to covenant with God. which you know.

But the commandment itself testifies that it does not originate at Sinai.

you have mentioned this verse in response to me:

Exo 20:8 "Remember the day, Shabbat, to set it apart for God.

and you spoke of understanding language: But what you seemed to neglect is that this is not the only verse in this commandment and there are qualifiers at the end of this commandment, namely:

Exo 20:11 For in six days, ADONAI made heaven and earth, the sea and everything in them; but on the seventh day he rested. This is why ADONAI blessed the day, Shabbat, and separated it for himself. v



Now as for the word used for Remember it is:זָכַר The primary meaning is: To remember, to be mindful meaning to retain in your memory.

Now you made a point that it could mean just remember it from now on etc. But the problem here is that this neglects the last verse which give clarification as part of this commandment.

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

This verse is giving the reason that this day should be kept Holy and it does not say because I said to today or because I tested you with it and the manna. Rather it says the reason is because God made it Holy on the 7th day of creation.

Every single commandment given in these 10 are not new they all existed before Sinai. You see hints of them everywhere but you don't always see them being told as a law to be kept before here. Does that mean that God was ok with adultery before this point?

I am sure and hope you would not think that before Sinai it was ok to kill and commit adultery. God instructed Cain that his anger would lead to greater sin. Jesus taught that to be angry with your brother is murder this is not a new thought but an everlasting principle though it is not commanded directly before Jesus, does that mean that it was only sin to be angry without a cause after Jesus spoke on the Mount? no of course not we see the same principle right at the beginning.

What about Joseph who refused to sleep with Potiphar's wife. How did Joseph know it was a sin t do this adulterous thing?
Where was this command before in the bible? There was none that is recorded do we now assume that it was not wrong to commit adultery because there is no recorded command from God? no of course not we use our common sense that God has given us and put the pieces together.

And we could go on with the things Jesus commanded but again you will find the principles all played out in the Old testament.

The Sabbath which we are talking about actually directs us to why God said to keep it and it was because He made it Holy after creation. now even if you could prove that the 7th day did not end, ps you can't. it would not change the fact that the Sabbath is not based on something that happened at Sinai but rather what happened at creation.

And it is up to you to show how Jesus changed what happened at creation. Jesus himself said this:

Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

It was not made for Jews but humanity and it was made at creation very clearly. not at Sinai.

This is revealing because He speaks of Himself as the "Lord of the Sabbath" and indeed this is shown to be true as He is the one who created it:

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Paul puts it this way:

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

SO Jesus made the Sabbath Holy at creation clearly and He made it for humanity. So why would he make it for humanity and not tell anyone about it till the Jews come along? well he would not. But just because its not recorded does not mean it did not happen as I have shown earlier that there are many things not commandment in the Old but we still see were expected.

Its unthinkable to think that Adultery was unknown by followers of God before Sinai and we have some examples but no command, this does not mean it was not known. What about coveting was this only sin after Sinai or any of the other commandments?

The problem people are missing is why the law was given, it was no given to bring some new thing in but to make plan everlasting principles.

Even sacrifices were established at the fall by God himself. do you think that Able brought sacrifice without really knowing what it was about? That God did not explain these things to them? Yet there is no record. Even priesthood existed before Sinai.

God spoke to men and instructed them but we do not need to see every time God did this because we know that He does not change, He is the same yesterday today and tomorrow. God left in the bible the most explicit instruction which came at Sinai and then Sent Jesus to put it in its proper context. God did not change tactics. So making argument based on what is not stated is nonsensical Rather lets base our points on what is said.

Did Adam and Eve keep the Sabbath? well no one knows for sure it is not stated they did or did not. But if Jesus words are true that it was made for all humanity than its a pretty safe bet that Jesus explained these things to them before the fall and after. Just as it is a safe bet they they were instructed about he plan of salvation as seen in Gen 3 and also the meaning of sacrifices thus the reason he told Cain "if you do well"

as for the day point the Sabbath commandment itself and exodus 16 make it clear that it is a literal 7 day cycle. notice exodus 16 does also and comes before Sinai.

Not to mention that if you follow the patter in Gen 1 and 2. You brought up the fact that it does not say evening and morning on the 7th but that means nothing. Just follow the pattern.

Evening and morning the 1st day
" " 2n day
3rd day, 4th day, 5th day, 6th day, 7th day. If it is not a day, then it is not the 7th day but rather simply begun on the 7th day. But no indication that this holiness was just a beginning is found. its simply says 7th day which pattern indicates a literal day like the rest. This is confirmed by the Exodus 16 and the commandment.

There is not hint at all that the 7th day is different to the other 6 in duration. Thus it is a null an void argument. The only difference between them is 6 were active creative days the 7th was ceasing from that and making it nothing but Holy.

Look we disagree I get that but you are making wrong assumptions when you say things like: you have to cause you are SDA etc. Its a silly argument, I could do the same thing to you and just say well your against it cause you are a (insert title) No I am and SDA because I found this church to line up with what I was finding in the scripture from my own personal study over a period of intense prayer and searching.

 

[kohelet]

Trust me its not from reading the SDA translation, I am not sure I have ever read it to be honest. I prefer the KJV personally. while I will read others I find it to be the most accurate and most easily founded from History. I don't really like any of the modern translations as far as study goes...

Okay, gotime, let's cut to the chase. You say it is crucial that we keep the Sabbath or are sinning. How do you therefore explain that under the new covenant - in the New Testament - there are parallels to nine of the ten commandments and not one to the fourth? Paul wrote a lot about the law. Show us where he stresses the importance of keeping the Sabbath holy under the new covenant. One verse will do.

 

[gotime]

Okay, gotime, let's cut to the chase. You say it is crucial that we keep the Sabbath or are sinning. How do you therefore explain that under the new covenant - in the New Testament - there are parallels to nine of the ten commandments and not one to the fourth? Paul wrote a lot about the law. Show us where he stresses the importance of keeping the Sabbath holy under the new covenant. One verse will do.

Ok Let me explain, This point of view is based on a false primes.

People assume that only what is said in the new Testament is binding as if it replaces the Old. It does not, rather it is a testimony to the old. For example Jesus fulfilled many of the prophecies, I say many cause some are yet to be fulfilled like the new earth etc.

Jesus also explained the law of how to live life not adding to it but putting it back in its true light.

Focusing on the 10 because that is where the 7th day Sabbath appears we find that there are teachings to keep all 10 but many miss them.

For example:

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

notice fulfilling the law here is actually keeping it out of love. Paul does not change it, in fact it is exactly the same as the Old testament says:

Lev 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Notice that love thy neighbor includes 5 of the 6 commandments to do with loving others, This is not new this is old covenant teaching as is seen here:

Mar 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Mar 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Mar 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Mar 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
Mar 12:33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
Mar 12:34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.

Notice the Scribe here knew the law and Jesus affirmed Him but there was something missing but that is not important for this discussion but in short the missing thing was Jesus as the messiah to the scribe.

Bot notice again here:

Luk 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luk 10:26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
Luk 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
Luk 10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

When Jesus asked him this question he knew the answer because it is not new it is the same law given to Israel, same moral law. and it is clear that the 10 commandments as seen are fulfilled in love. As they were also in the old testament.

Now notice that also included in these ones is love God which if love your neighbor is the last 6 then love God naturally comes into the ones that say love God.

Actually the 4th commandment is the link between the two as it is the Lords day and we also rest with the stranger/our neighbor.

notice these words from Jesus:

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

This one includes the one missed by Paul namely honor your mother and your Father. Thus showing that while Paul did not mention that one commandment did not mean that Paul was teaching that it was ok to disobey that one. Yet it was not mentioned by Paul.

What about do not covet, Paul mentions that one but Here Jesus does not mention that one. Clearly a commandment not being mentioned does not mean it is not important or to be kept. However Jesus does not say put God first or any of the first 4 commandments are we to suppose that Jesus though it was ok to break the first four now? no of course not.

So why not mention the first four in fact the least mentioned are the first four the most mentioned in the new testament is the last six. The answer is simple, The instruction was relevant to the need.

The Sabbath was not contested when Jesus was around, no one was going around teaching that it should not be kept. The Pharisees honored the name of God, they Put God first so much so that they burdened people and they kept the Sabbath physically.

But note that Jesus corrects them not in their obedience to these things but in there false teachings concerning these things. Their form of godliness but no true inward obedience. This is why we see much in the Gospels concerning how to keep the Sabbath but not commands to keep it. "how" not "to"

You don't command someone to do that which they are already doing and accept. But if they do it wrong then you instruct on how it should be kept. Jesus speaks more on how the Sabbath should be kept than any other one commandment.

I do not go to a Sabbath keeping church and tell them they should be keeping the Sabbath because they already are. But if they are keeping it wrongly or adding to it or taking away from it then I will teach them how to keep it.

It is not repeated because it is not an issue in their time. no one was teaching we should change the day or not bother so there was no need to repeat it. it was already being kept. the same as the other 3 concerning God. But they did do it wrong and thus there is instruction how to do it right. from a heart of love which the Old testament taught.

There is more instruction on the last 6 because they were not doing them, they were teaching that they could treat people badly and not love them in order to be pure and to obey God and to love God often meant not giving that love to man.

This is evident throughout the New Testament.

So again short answer, you don't command people to do what they are already doing.