Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.
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God can do anything and everything and could force ALL to do as He wishes and force ALL to be saved. BUT He does not do so. We can know what God wills from His Holy Spirit inspired Word and Truth and then He ALLOWS US to exercise free will in choosing and with every choice there is a corresponding good or bad consequence. And again, obeying God's Will is a MUST and IS NOT works or earning salvation.
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John 13:34 - A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. (KJV)
John 13:34 - A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. (NKJV)
John 13:34 - A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. (NASB)
John 13:34 - A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. (NIV)
What happened to MUST in these 4 common translations of the Bible?
It's not about "must or else" for those who are truly born of God, but WILL. (1 John 3:10; 1 John 4:7-8)
John 13:34 - A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. (NKJV)
John 13:34 - A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. (NASB)
John 13:34 - A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. (NIV)
What happened to MUST in these 4 common translations of the Bible?
It's not about "must or else" for those who are truly born of God, but WILL. (1 John 3:10; 1 John 4:7-8)
John 13:34 - A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. (KJV)
John 13:34 - A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. (NKJV)
John 13:34 - A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. (NASB)
John 13:34 - A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. (NIV)
What happened to MUST in these 4 common translations of the Bible? It's not about "must or else" for those who are truly born of God, but WILL. (1 John 3:10; 1 John 4:7-8)
John 13:34 - A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. (NKJV)
John 13:34 - A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. (NASB)
John 13:34 - A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. (NIV)
What happened to MUST in these 4 common translations of the Bible?
It's not about "must or else" for those who are truly born of God, but WILL. (1 John 3:10; 1 John 4:7-8)
In the Greek "should" is more accurate. - https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/13-34.htm
John 13 - Click for Chapter
25 [e]
agapate
ἀγαπᾶτε
you should love
V-PSA-2P
240 [e]
allēlous
ἀλλήλους ;
one another
RecPro-AMP
What on earth possesses you to imagine that true born again blood bought Christians would commit murder and not be filled with remorse.? You pose an impossible data set to construct a straw man to support your personal doctrine because scripture does not support it.
Not unbelievable but unbelieving.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Not unbelievable but unbelieving.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Most commonly used scripture in an effort to promote salvation by works. In James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith (which is like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree) or that works are the source of life in faith or that we are saved by works. *James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone says-claims to have faith but lacks resulting evidential works, then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. (James 2:14)
In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. That is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.
In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It does not mean that Abraham was finally saved based on the merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar many years later in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.
In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.
In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.
In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:
1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be
In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works will be evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of righteousness.
God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was "justified." He was shown to be righteous.
Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."
So man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24).
*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.*
It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony*
In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. That is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.
In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It does not mean that Abraham was finally saved based on the merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar many years later in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.
In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.
In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.
In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:
1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be
In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works will be evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of righteousness.
God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was "justified." He was shown to be righteous.
Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."
So man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24).
*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.*
It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony*
-
2
- Show all
Most commonly used scripture in an effort to promote salvation by works. In James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith (which is like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree) or that works are the source of life in faith or that we are saved by works. *James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone says-claims to have faith but lacks resulting evidential works, then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. (James 2:14)
In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. That is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.
In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It does not mean that Abraham was finally saved based on the merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar many years later in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.
In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.
In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.
In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:
1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be
In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works will be evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of righteousness.
God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was "justified." He was shown to be righteous.
Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."
So man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24).
*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.*
It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony*
In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. That is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.
In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It does not mean that Abraham was finally saved based on the merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar many years later in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.
In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.
In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.
In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:
1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be
In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works will be evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of righteousness.
God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was "justified." He was shown to be righteous.
Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."
So man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24).
*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.*
It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony*
Ponder that.
You have so many loopholes here besides, you that have no scripture to back up.
1. If God saves you, is it for eternity or not? Consider this:
John 10:28 King James Version (KJV)
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
2, If you cannot save yourself are you going to rely on him? Are you going to depend on, fully trust or have confidence in Christ alone?
Ephesians 1:12-14 King James Version (KJV)
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
3. Can God force you to be saved? Take note the word "whosoever"
John 3:16 King James Version (KJV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Yea I think it would be a pointless transaction if you nullify the grace of God.
1 Corinthians 15:10
But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
1. If God saves you, is it for eternity or not? Consider this:
John 10:28 King James Version (KJV)
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
2, If you cannot save yourself are you going to rely on him? Are you going to depend on, fully trust or have confidence in Christ alone?
Ephesians 1:12-14 King James Version (KJV)
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
3. Can God force you to be saved? Take note the word "whosoever"
John 3:16 King James Version (KJV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Yea I think it would be a pointless transaction if you nullify the grace of God.
1 Corinthians 15:10
But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
You are the one who said " we save ourselves in a some sense", not me.
Mine is clear. Jesus is a life giving spirit (understanding). No one can claim to love or know or believe or trust an understanding without violating the second commandment, but use the understanding for something tangible and thus loving others is exclusively trusting in the Lord Jesus and not creating a graven image.
I hope you understand.
Mine is clear. Jesus is a life giving spirit (understanding). No one can claim to love or know or believe or trust an understanding without violating the second commandment, but use the understanding for something tangible and thus loving others is exclusively trusting in the Lord Jesus and not creating a graven image.
I hope you understand.
John 13:34 - A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. (KJV)
John 13:34 - A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. (NKJV)
John 13:34 - A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. (NASB)
John 13:34 - A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. (NIV)
What happened to MUST in these 4 common translations of the Bible? It's not about "must or else" for those who are truly born of God, but WILL. (1 John 3:10; 1 John 4:7-8)
John 13:34 - A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. (NKJV)
John 13:34 - A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. (NASB)
John 13:34 - A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. (NIV)
What happened to MUST in these 4 common translations of the Bible?
It's not about "must or else" for those who are truly born of God, but WILL. (1 John 3:10; 1 John 4:7-8)
LOL! I just noticed that the NIV used the word, "must." Didn't catch that the first time around.
In the Greek "should" is more accurate. - https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/13-34.htm
John 13 - Click for Chapter
25 [e]
agapate
ἀγαπᾶτε
you should love
V-PSA-2P
240 [e]
allēlous
ἀλλήλους ;
one another
RecPro-AMP
In the Greek "should" is more accurate. - https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/13-34.htm
John 13 - Click for Chapter
25 [e]
agapate
ἀγαπᾶτε
you should love
V-PSA-2P
240 [e]
allēlous
ἀλλήλους ;
one another
RecPro-AMP