Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

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DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#3,081
Jun 11, 2019
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Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly and my reward is with me to give every man according as his work shall be.

Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do His commandmentsthat they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
 
fredoheaven

fredoheaven

Senior Member
#3,082
Nov 17, 2015
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Noose said:
James 2:20O foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is worthless?f 21Was not our father Abraham justified by what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith was working with his actions, and his faith was perfected by what he did. 23And the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”g and he was called a friend of God. 24As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone.
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James sees the justification in man's sight, this is to validate your faith.
Paul sees the justification in God's sight.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#3,083
Apr 7, 2014
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Noose said:
You are the one who said " we save ourselves in a some sense", not me.
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Which still does not mean that we are saved by works. We receive Christ through faith and He saves us based on the merits of His finished work of redemption alone and not based on the merits of our works. (Romans 3:24-28)

Mine is clear. Jesus is a life giving spirit (understanding). No one can claim to love or know or believe or trust an understanding without violating the second commandment, but use the understanding for something tangible and thus loving others is exclusively trusting in the Lord Jesus and not creating a graven image.

I hope you understand.
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You are a complicated guy who is not always easy to understand.
 
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Margo74

Active member
#3,084
Jul 11, 2019
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#3,084
Noose said:
You are the one who said " we save ourselves in a some sense", not me.

Mine is clear. Jesus is a life giving spirit (understanding). No one can claim to love or know or believe or trust an understanding without violating the second commandment, but use the understanding for something tangible and thus loving others is exclusively trusting in the Lord Jesus and not creating a graven image.

I hope you understand.
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I trust in Jesus Christ to save me as only He can but He can only do so IF I submit to Him, so He can work in and through me to make me worthy.
 
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Noose

Senior Member
#3,085
Apr 18, 2016
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fredoheaven said:
James sees the justification in man's sight, this is to validate your faith.
Paul sees the justification in God's sight.
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James and Paul and all the apostles talked about the same thing:

1 Cor 13:2...and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
 
fredoheaven

fredoheaven

Senior Member
#3,086
Nov 17, 2015
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Noose said:
Based on the highlighted above, how is a two year old saved?

When answering, remember Jesus said if we don't change and become like the little children, we shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Explain.

And, should this part of the bible be removed?

Rom 5:18So then, just as one trespass brought condemnation for all men, so also one act of righteousness brought justification and life for all men.
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if the two years old are able to comprehend the gospel truth and received it then the two (2) year old will be saved. But do you think the two-year-old can comprehend sin, the penalty of sin, the provision of salvation, Christ and the gospel?
 
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Margo74

Active member
#3,087
Jul 11, 2019
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#3,087
fredoheaven said:
James sees the justification in man's sight, this is to validate your faith.
Paul sees the justification in God's sight.
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And James is saying those who believe will show such by their deeds but not do deeds to earn salvation as such has been bought by Jesus already and is not for sale but offered to ALL who want it as a free gift.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#3,088
Apr 7, 2014
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Noose said:
Yet faith is expressed through love and not love through faith.
Ponder that.
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It's not hard to ponder and neither is Romans 5:5 - and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#3,089
#3,089
Margo74 said:
And James is saying those who believe will show such by their deeds but not do deeds to earn salvation as such has been bought by Jesus already and is not for sale but offered to ALL who want it as a free gift.
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Hey sis

James is saying those who CLAIM to have faith but has zero works are lieing to themselves. their faith is dead.

He is not saying work is required. he says work is a byproduct. Since it is a byproduct of true faith, whoever has true faith WILL have some works.

ie, if one has no works (zero zip nada) then their faith is not real. thus it is dead (non existent), and had no power to save anyone.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#3,090
#3,090
Margo74 said:
I trust in Jesus Christ to save me as only He can but He can only do so IF I submit to Him, so He can work in and through me to make me worthy.
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He made you worthy based on his son sis, You will NEVER be worthy as long as you live on this earth by your actions. That requires perfection. Only Christ was able to attain that, Paul could not even gain that status,
 
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Margo74

Active member
#3,091
Jul 11, 2019
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#3,091
fredoheaven said:
if the two years old are able to comprehend the gospel truth and received it then the two (2) year old will be saved. But do you think the two-year-old can comprehend sin, the penalty of sin, the provision of salvation, Christ and the gospel?
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Two-year-olds and all other such young ones WILL be saved as they are not yet able to discern right from wrong and good from evil. They don't understand what to believe in Christ means. If not saved, they would go to the lake of fire with other unbelievers and God would NEVER do such to them or even to any adult who has not got the capacity to discern faith and right from wrong and good from evil. Only those of us who can know and understand such are responsible for our good and bad "free will" choices. God will reward all according to how they lived .. lived and repented according to His Will or not, so Heaven or not.
 
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Margo74

Active member
#3,092
Jul 11, 2019
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eternally-gratefull said:
Hey sis

James is saying those who CLAIM to have faith but has zero works are lieing to themselves. their faith is dead.

He is not saying work is required. he says work is a byproduct. Since it is a byproduct of true faith, whoever has true faith WILL have some works.

ie, if one has no works (zero zip nada) then their faith is not real. thus it is dead (non existent), and had no power to save anyone.
Click to expand...
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#3,093
Apr 7, 2014
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#3,093
Noose said:
James and Paul and all the apostles talked about the same thing:

1 Cor 13:2...and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
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Do you interpret this verse to mean there are believers running around in the world who have faith that can move mountains, but have absolutely no love at all and will not be saved based on their lack of love? You do realize that Paul is using hyperbole to stress the importance of love here, don't you? Love is the greater quality of the three because God is love and it outlasts faith and hope. Long after faith and hope are no longer necessary, love will still be the governing principle that controls everything that God and his saints are and do. Believers won't need faith and hope once they receive their glorified bodies and in the presence of the Lord.
 
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Margo74

Active member
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#3,095
the greatest attribute for man is love and without love man is nothing and does nothing, so if one has faith with love, one will do good works simply out of that love for God and others and not to buy salvation. If one has faith without love as did Lucifer aka Satan, one will believe for nothing.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

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Margo74 said:
the greatest attribute for man is love and without love man is nothing and does nothing, so if one has faith with love, one will do good works simply out of that love for God and others and not to buy salvation. If one has faith without love as did Lucifer aka Satan, one will believe for nothing.
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1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.
 
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Margo74

Active member
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Jul 11, 2019
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Lightskin said:
That’s not what’s written in John 3:16.
I noticed you can’t support your stance with scripture as I’ve requested two times now.
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besides being biblical, it is also logical .. if we believe in Christ which is the first thing needed, we must love Him, and if we love Him, He Himself said, "IF you love Me, [THEN] keep My commandments". So, we MUST believe, MUST love, MUST obey. if we fail to obey from time to time and we do, we MUST repent genuinely.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#3,098
#3,098
mailmandan said:
Do you interpret this verse to mean there are believers running around in the world who have faith that can move mountains, but have absolutely no love at all and will not be saved based on their lack of love? You do realize that Paul is using hyperbole to stress the importance of love here, don't you? Love is the greater quality of the three because God is love and it outlasts faith and hope. Long after faith and hope are no longer necessary, love will still be the governing principle that controls everything that God and his saints are and do. Believers won't need faith and hope once they receive their glorified bodies and in the presence of the Lord.
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who are you talking to bro?
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
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Apr 7, 2014
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Margo74 said:
besides being biblical, it is also logical .. if we believe in Christ which is the first thing needed, we must love Him, and if we love Him, He Himself said, "IF you love Me, [THEN] keep My commandments". So, we MUST believe, MUST love, MUST obey. if we fail to obey from time to time and we do, we MUST repent genuinely.
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Did Jesus say that believing in Him is merely the first thing needed in order to receive eternal life in John 3:16? Does obedience/works precede or follow believing in Him and receiving eternal life?
 
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