Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

[Lightskin]

I do not recall you ever asking me for Scripture and offhand, I only know two passages from memory BUT what I say is CLEARLY scriptural as I say what the Scripture says even if I do not directly quote passages. Those who truly know God's Word recognise what I am saying as being Biblical. I truly believe and God's Word does support my belief that we MUST believe, love, obey, repent when we disobey and obeying is not works but doing what God commands we MUST or we WILL do

I asked you for biblical references two times. You only know two scriptures by heart yet are so adamant about what the entire Bible says? I know the Bible very well and no, you do not represent God’s word accurately.

 

[Noose]

Which still does not mean that we are saved by works. We receive Christ through faith and He saves us based on the merits of His finished work of redemption alone and not based on the merits of our works. (Romans 3:24-28)

'Save ourselves in a sense' has to mean, we have a part to play in our salvation or else.

You are a complicated guy who is not always easy to understand.

I know.

 

[Noose]

It's not hard to ponder and neither is Romans 5:5 - and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

The love of God is not only for you but all men.

 

[mailmandan]

'Save ourselves in a sense' has to mean, we have a part to play in our salvation or else.

Saved by grace through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) Grace is God's part and faith is ours.

I know.

 

[Noose]

if the two years old are able to comprehend the gospel truth and received it then the two (2) year old will be saved. But do you think the two-year-old can comprehend sin, the penalty of sin, the provision of salvation, Christ and the gospel?

Doesn't matter. If a two year old can be saved without them figuring Jesus dying for their sin, then there must some other means than the one you are proposing here. And Jesus also said, if we don't become like them, we shall not see the kingdom.

So what is this other way? Are you trying to say if i don't know sin i'm saved? how does that relate to salvation by faith in Christ alone?

 

[mailmandan]

The love of God is not only for you but all men.

Have all men received the Holy Spirit? (Romans 5:5; Ephesians 1:13)

 

[Noose]

I trust in Jesus Christ to save me as only He can but He can only do so IF I submit to Him, so He can work in and through me to make me worthy.

Whatever you do, make sure you don't violate the second commandment.

 

[Lightskin]

Doesn't matter. If a two year old can be saved without them figuring Jesus dying for their sin, then there must some other means than the one you are proposing here. And Jesus also said, if we don't become like them, we shall not see the kingdom.

So what is this other way? Are you trying to say if i don't know sin i'm saved? how does that relate to salvation by faith in Christ alone?

Jesus says let the little children come to me. Two-year-olds who die have salvation because Jesus desires it. On another note, we see in Isaiah 57 that sometimes God has young people die in order to save them from a future which would’ve been too much for them to handle. If God is merciful to such individuals then clearly He grants such individuals salvation.

 

[Noose]

Saved by grace through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) Grace is God's part and faith is ours.

So we have a part to play, right?

 

[fredoheaven]

James and Paul and all the apostles talked about the same thing:

1 Cor 13:2...and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

When Paul mentions justification, he means the act of God whereby he declares the believing sinner

James on the other hand to means give evidence or proof.

James says, “show me thy faith” James 2:18

Seest thou how faith wrought with works and by works was faith made perfect. James 2:22



Paul also looks at life from God’s perspective while James looks of life from a human perspective. He uses daily food, needful to the body.

James 2:15-16 King James Version (KJV)

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

 

[Noose]

Do you interpret this verse to mean there are believers running around in the world who have faith that can move mountains, but have absolutely no love at all and will not be saved based on their lack of love? You do realize that Paul is using hyperbole to stress the importance of love here, don't you? Love is the greater quality of the three because God is love and it outlasts faith and hope. Long after faith and hope are no longer necessary, love will still be the governing principle that controls everything that God and his saints are and do. Believers won't need faith and hope once they receive their glorified bodies and in the presence of the Lord.

Mat 7:21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’

Many means many.

 

[fredoheaven]

Two-year-olds and all other such young ones WILL be saved as they are not yet able to discern right from wrong and good from evil. They don't understand what to believe in Christ means. If not saved, they would go to the lake of fire with other unbelievers and God would NEVER do such to them or even to any adult who has not got the capacity to discern faith and right from wrong and good from evil. Only those of us who can know and understand such are responsible for our good and bad "free will" choices. God will reward all according to how they lived .. lived and repented according to His Will or not, so Heaven or not.

It seems you havent understood to be safe and to be saved. Babies or children who are unable to understand salvation are safe in the Lord. To be saved means you understand sin, the penalty of sin, the provision of salvation.

 

[fredoheaven]

Doesn't matter. If a two year old can be saved without them figuring Jesus dying for their sin, then there must some other means than the one you are proposing here. And Jesus also said, if we don't become like them, we shall not see the kingdom.

So what is this other way? Are you trying to say if i don't know sin i'm saved? how does that relate to salvation by faith in Christ alone?

of course, little children simply means humility, that means to accept you are nothing and simply cling to Christ.

 

[mailmandan]

So we have a part to play, right?

Our part is to place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Through faith, we are completely trusting in "Another's work," (Christ's finished work of redemption - Romans 3:24-28). Jesus Christ receives 100% credit for our salvation.

 

[mailmandan]

Mat 7:21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’

Many means many.

Jesus NEVER knew these many people (Matthew 7:23) which means they were NEVER saved. John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

 

[fredoheaven]

Mat 7:21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’

Many means many.

Not everyone that is religious is saved or born again...

 

[Chester]

Saved by grace through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) Grace is God's part and faith is ours.

If faith is "our" part, and we are saved by "faith alone' then we save ourselves! Ha! Gotcha! LOL!

(I know you didn't mean it that way!)

 

[Margo74]

There is a difference between doing God's will IN ORDER TO BECOME SAVED: John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

AND

Doing God's will AFTER WE HAVE BEEN SAVED: 1 Thessalonians 5:14 - Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. 15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all. 16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

Works-salvationists generally define faith "as" obedience, then try to deny that performing acts of obedience (which follow faith) are works.

FOR THE LAST TIME WITH YOU: faith IS NOT obedience .. faith is belief in Christ as ONE and ONLY Way, Truth, and Life and ONLY way to Salvation .. nothing in that about obedience .. IF one has faith just described, one MUST love Christ .. IF one loves Christ, one MUST obey Him as He Himself commanded .. doing the Will of God in obeying God's Will IS NOT works .. when a child obeys his/her father, such is not works .. God is our Father, so when we as His children obey Him aka our Father, such is not works

 

[eternally-gratefull]

FOR THE LAST TIME WITH YOU: faith IS NOT obedience .. faith is belief in Christ as ONE and ONLY Way, Truth, and Life and ONLY way to Salvation .. nothing in that about obedience .. IF one has faith just described, one MUST love Christ .. IF one loves Christ, one MUST obey Him as He Himself commanded .. doing the Will of God in obeying God's Will IS NOT works .. when a child obeys his/her father, such is not works .. God is our Father, so when we as His children obey Him aka our Father, such is not works

question

are these works required or salvation is lost

or are they a common and natural byproduct of true living faith, and not a requirment to remain saved?

I think this is an important question.

 

[Noose]

Not everyone that is religious is saved or born again...

Not everyone who is not religious is not saved.

Matt 25:
37Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You something to drink? 38When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39When did we see You sick or in prison and visit You?’

40And the King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’