Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

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fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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I still don't see how a two year old gets saved. They don't get to hear these so called 'truths' and get sealed, how do they get saved?
Yep, you didn’t see it my friend. I think you have a problem with the understanding of being “safe” and “saved”. Again, I have to put an “if” in the sentence that if a child never understood the truths of the gospel which is apparent then the children are considered safe in Jesus rather than using the traditional word “saved”. This is because of their lack of ability to understand the gospel truth. This is safety is based on David’s words in a future meeting with the dead infant 2 Sam. 12:23 cp. Matthew 19:14. On the assumption that If the two years old is not dead and still cannot grasp the gospel truths, then the two-year-old is safe. If the presumption, one understands truths, then, by all means, the 2-Year-old already needs to be saved. Why did you ask this? I assume you have a two-year-old who not comprehend truths, well you should not make no worries then. For “theirs is the kingdom of heaven” as Jesus said.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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Just curious, what makes you determine that Nicodemus is lost eternally?
Nicodemus is lost not the one you said eternally. He once was lost, simply because he needs to be born again. In John 7:50, a change is observable in that he defends Jesus against the charges of the Sanhedrin. At the crucifixion, he publicly stands as one of the disciples of Jesus. John 19:38, 39.

So this simply means, Nicodemus is not “lost eternally” yet he once was lost but Christ found him. I hope, I found an answer to your curiosity.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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Nope. You don't have to prove anything. If you love others, it should come from compassion/empathy and not your zeal to prove anything- this is no longer love but pride.
I just differentiated the justification of Paul and the justification of James which you didn't understand.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Jesus died for the sins of the world and His sacrifice atones for the sins of the world, yet that does not mean the whole world is automatically saved. The result was justification and life for (believers) those who are in Christ (Romans 5:17) and not automatically for everyone. (Acts 13:39; Romans 3:26; 5:1; 6:23; 8:1 etc..)

Back at you. So which church are you affiliated with? Are you ashamed to tell me?
Does he even have a church?
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
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Jesus died for the sins of the world and His sacrifice atones for the sins of the world, yet that does not mean the whole world is automatically saved. The result was justification and life for (believers) those who are in Christ (Romans 5:17) and not automatically for everyone. (Acts 13:39; Romans 3:26; 5:1; 6:23; 8:1 etc..)

Back at you. So which church are you affiliated with? Are you ashamed to tell me?
If someone has pays your debt, what does that mean for you?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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I just differentiated the justification of Paul and the justification of James which you didn't understand.
Amen! When Paul uses the term "justified" he is referring to the legal (judicial) act by which God accounts the believer as righteous. (Romans 3:28; 4:2-3; 5:1) James, however is using the term "justified" to describe those who would show the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do. (James 2:18,21,24) Works-salvationists give the term "justified" a broad brushed definition of "saved" and the end result is salvation by works.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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Yep, you didn’t see it my friend. I think you have a problem with the understanding of being “safe” and “saved”. Again, I have to put an “if” in the sentence that if a child never understood the truths of the gospel which is apparent then the children are considered safe in Jesus rather than using the traditional word “saved”. This is because of their lack of ability to understand the gospel truth. This is safety is based on David’s words in a future meeting with the dead infant 2 Sam. 12:23 cp. Matthew 19:14. On the assumption that If the two years old is not dead and still cannot grasp the gospel truths, then the two-year-old is safe. If the presumption, one understands truths, then, by all means, the 2-Year-old already needs to be saved. Why did you ask this? I assume you have a two-year-old who not comprehend truths, well you should not make no worries then. For “theirs is the kingdom of heaven” as Jesus said.
Jesus said, if you don't change and become like children, you shall not inherit the kingdom. I does not mean you lose the ability to understand the gospel.

Nowhere does the scripture insinuate safety. We are all saved from Sin, young and old alike.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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The sin debt has been paid (Jesus said, it is finished, which means paid in full) yet the gift still must be received.
;);)

Rom 5:18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.

Not some people.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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;);)

Rom 5:18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.

Not some people.
As I already explained in post #3,238, the context of Romans is all men in Adam (not just some men in Adam) and all men in Christ (not just some men in Christ). All men in Adam are condemned, and all men in Christ are justified. Do you have a hearing problem? Also, you still have not answered my question - Which church are you affiliated with?:unsure:
 
Mar 14, 2011
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As I already explained in post #3,238, the context of Romans is all men in Adam (not just some men in Adam) and all men in Christ (not just some men in Christ). All men in Adam are condemned, and all men in Christ are justified. Do you have a hearing problem? Also, you still have not answered my question - Which church are you affiliated with?:unsure:
If he tells you let me know, i doubt it though, he is probably one of those loan rangers who thinks he learns directly from God.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
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As I already explained in post #3,238, the context of Romans is all men in Adam (not just some men in Adam) and all men in Christ (not just some men in Christ). All men in Adam are condemned, and all men in Christ are justified. Do you have a hearing problem? Also, you still have not answered my question - Which church are you affiliated with?:unsure:
Calm down.

All men have sinned and fallen short of the glory. So all men are in Adam, not some.
All men likewise have been reconciled with God by Christ, so all men are justified in Christ. Christ did not die for some people but all people.

Rom 5:10For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son,

My Church?!, The church of God.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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Calm down.

All men have sinned and fallen short of the glory. So all men are in Adam, not some.
All men likewise have been reconciled with God by Christ, so all men are justified in Christ. Christ did not die for some people but all people.

Rom 5:10For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son,

My Church?!, The church of God.
This is just flat out WRONG.

Jesus DID die for ALL men, BUT, only those who believe and born again, are IN CHRIST. The unsaved are NOT born again, NOT regenerated, and therefore are NOT JUSTIFIED.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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This is just flat out WRONG.

Jesus DID die for ALL men, BUT, only those who believe and born again, are IN CHRIST. The unsaved are NOT born again, NOT regenerated, and therefore are NOT JUSTIFIED.
What does this mean?

Rom 5:18Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.

At least you accept that He died for all men unlike some here.
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
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I still don't see how a two year old gets saved. They don't get to hear these so called 'truths' and get sealed, how do they get saved?
By your reasoning, God is a blood thirsty murdering thug who takes great joy in overseeing the damnation of innocent two year olds.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
2,745
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113
The sin debt has been paid (Jesus said, it is finished, which means paid in full) yet the gift still must be received.
Yep Amen! The gift needs to be received or rejected, but receiving is a good choice. This is the only way to possessed salvation.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
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By your reasoning, God is a blood thirsty murdering thug who takes great joy in overseeing the damnation of innocent two year olds.
Nope. Never said that and i don't know what you are talking about.
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
3,658
113
What does this mean?

Rom 5:18Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.

At least you accept that He died for all men unlike some here.
You’re all over the place. You’re saying everyone has salvation except two-year-old who never heard the word of God.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
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Yep Amen! The gift needs to be received or rejected, but receiving is a good choice. This is the only way to possessed salvation.
If you were supposed to die and someone else died for you, what else are you supposed to do? receive something?!