Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

[Nat2019]

Thank you BillG.

Their gospel is basically you need to stop sinning, deny self, carry your cross, all works to earn salvation.... because as I was told by this group salvation is not a "get out jail free card"

Can you imagine even saying that about the work of Jesus ...... how denigrating to the plan of salvation!!!

Salvation also isnt an excuse to go " Gods blood covers my sins" So I can keep doing them. Gods Grace doesnt allow ungodliness or unholy lifestyles. Theres nothing wrong with Pleasing God and keeping his commands. It shows we actually love him. Gods grace is not a "Continue to sin" jail key. To say you can sin it up with no consequences. This seems more prideful to me. Showing no fear of the Lord

 

[UnderGrace]

Great picture, totally argree.

How about you do some unbiased, deep, independent research on the word "metanoia" before you agree. seems reasonable to me.

 

[UnderGrace]

Salvation also isnt an excuse to go " Gods blood covers my sins" So I can keep doing them. Gods Grace doesnt allow ungodliness or unholy lifestyles. Theres nothing wrong with Pleasing God and keeping his commands. It shows we actually love him. Gods grace is not a "Continue to sin" jail key. To say you can sin it up with no consequences. This seems more prideful to me. Showing no fear of the Lord

Important to separate salvation from discipleship/the Christian walk, which one are we talking about?

 

[Lafftur]

So it means the same thing as "If you take the mark, you are not saved".

Is that what you are also implying?

Those that take the mark of the beast are not saved.

Revelation 14:10-12 King James Version (KJV)
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

 

[dcontroversal]

So it means the same thing as "If you take the mark, you are not saved".

Is that what you are also implying?

God deludes those that will not receive the truth....No saved man will take it and then lose salvation is what I am saying.....only LOST MEN receive it!

 

[Lafftur]

Do you think during the Tribulation, people will likewise be arguing over whether taking the mark of the beast would void your salvation by faith alone?

Hmmm..........what do you think?

 

[dcontroversal]

Was Judas saved? Luk 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. Judas was included in those that had been sent out and returned unto Jesus. Jesus told them all that their names were written down in Heaven. Judas backslid; after the betrayal of Jesus he went out and hang himself. Did he have eternal security?

Judas was never saved and then lost it...

a. A devil from the beginning
b. The Son of perdition
c. Never clean
d. Thief holding the bag
e. Chosen for the express reason of selling out the Lord

He was never saved......Geesh.......!!!!

 

[dcontroversal]

John 15:6 King James Version (KJV)
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

If branch not bear fruit Will cast into fire/hell

So It is talking about salvation

No, it isn't, and since when do men cast anyone into the fire..........wrong again salvation loser

 

[dcontroversal]

Important to separate salvation from discipleship/the Christian walk, which one are we talking about?

Funny.....Am in Italy.........

 

[UnderGrace]

Funny.....Am in Italy.........

Funny how that works, those darn time zones!!

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Well a pastor who does not correctly understand the word repentance and what it means in the original Greek is already off on the wrong track.

Here is what they have posted which is wrong


View attachment 201174

"Repentance is to leave the sin
That we had loved before
and show that we are grieved by it
by doing it no more"

This is a biblical statement supported by Jonah's preaching to Niniveh which Jesus linked to the cross
and salvation.

To not agree with this is to not know Jesus or the Father.
No matter the spiritual experiences around faith, this is the foundation of the gospel.

8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
9 Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom.
10 Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.
James 4

9 yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us.
10 Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.
11 See what this godly sorrow has produced in you: what earnestness, what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what alarm, what longing, what concern, what readiness to see justice done. At every point you have proved yourselves to be innocent in this matter.
2 Cor 7

21 "But if a wicked man turns away from all the sins he has committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die.
22 None of the offenses he has committed will be remembered against him. Because of the righteous things he has done, he will live.
Eze 18

10 For, "Whoever would love life and see good days must keep his tongue from evil and his lips from deceitful speech.
11 He must turn from evil and do good; he must seek peace and pursue it.
12 For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous and his ears are attentive to their prayer, but the face of
the Lord is against those who do evil."
1 Peter 3

8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth. Let everyone call urgently on God. Let them give up their evil ways and their violence.
9 Who knows? God may yet relent and with compassion turn from his fierce anger so that we will not perish."
Jonah 3

 

[UnderGrace]

"Repentance is to leave the sin
That we had loved before
and show that we are grieved by it
by doing it no more"

This is a biblical statement supported by Jonah's preaching to Niniveh which Jesus linked to the cross
and salvation.

To not agree with this is to not know Jesus or the Father.
No matter the spiritual experiences around faith, this is the foundation of the gospel.

8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
9 Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom.
10 Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.
James 4

9 yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us.
10 Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.
11 See what this godly sorrow has produced in you: what earnestness, what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what alarm, what longing, what concern, what readiness to see justice done. At every point you have proved yourselves to be innocent in this matter.
2 Cor 7

21 "But if a wicked man turns away from all the sins he has committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die.
22 None of the offenses he has committed will be remembered against him. Because of the righteous things he has done, he will live.
Eze 18

10 For, "Whoever would love life and see good days must keep his tongue from evil and his lips from deceitful speech.
11 He must turn from evil and do good; he must seek peace and pursue it.
12 For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous and his ears are attentive to their prayer, but the face of
the Lord is against those who do evil."
1 Peter 3

8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth. Let everyone call urgently on God. Let them give up their evil ways and their violence.
9 Who knows? God may yet relent and with compassion turn from his fierce anger so that we will not perish."
Jonah 3

Metanoia ... not the word repentance, big difference.

 

[dcontroversal]

Funny how that works, those darn time zones!!

yeah....a big tell hey...........!!!

 

[UnderGrace]

yeah....a big tell hey...........!!!

First time I have ever logged in at 5:00 am ... but some birdy was chirping in my window, and then low and behold there were others here as well!!

A big tell indeed.

 

[dcontroversal]

First time I have ever logged in at 5:00 am ... but some birdy was chirping in my window, and then low and behold there were others here as well!!

A big tell indeed.

Not been on all day, but on when morning rolls around in Italy......hilariously sad too be frank

 

[Lafftur]

Well a pastor who does not correctly understand the word repentance and what it means in the original Greek is already off on the wrong track.

Here is what they have posted which is wrong


View attachment 201174

Hello UnderGrace,

How do you understand the word "repentance" and what it means in the original Greek?

 

[dcontroversal]

Hello UnderGrace,

How do you understand the word "repentance" and what it means in the original Greek?

It simply means to change your mind and agree with God......

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Metanoia ... not the word repentance, big difference.

Undergrace - You cannot reject a statement

"Repentance is to leave the sin
That we had loved before
and show that we are grieved by it
by doing it no more"

by saying it is wrong, followed by "Metanoia ... not the word repentance, big difference. "

Part of repentance is changing our minds, because sinners do not accept Gods righteous ways,
and the first step is to change our minds and accept Gods ways are the ways of life.

But if one accepts Gods ways are the ways of life, then you would walk them and no longer
walk in sin.

So this means nothing, literally. There is always love and grace in Jesus, but also judgement
and righteousness. Every day people die, because of our sinful lost world.
God is not this fluffy, safe, everything is ok no matter what we do or say or believe because we
have this ticket. Yes if we repent, He will relent as He did with Nineveh, but only if we repent
and have faith in Him.

 

[Lafftur]

It simply means to change your mind and agree with God......

Metanoia ... not the word repentance, big difference.

So,

Repentence is sorrow and remorse over sin and turning away from sin

Metanoia is just simply changing one's mind

Yes, there's a big difference.

 

[PennEd]

13Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have laid hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14I press on toward the goal to win the prize of God’s heavenly calling in Christ Jesus. 15All of us who are mature should embrace this point of view. And if you think differently about some issue, God will reveal this to you as well.…https://biblehub.com/philippians/3-14.htm

Salvation is NOT a prize to won. It is a gift to be received.

Paul understood what eternity meant. How important it is to lay up treasures in Heaven. And because of that revelation he was always painfully aware that he COULD lose REWARDS!

REWARDS are a prize for winning a race, or doing a good job. We don't know exactly what form those rewards will take. But Jesus says there will be a least IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. So there will also be a greatest (aside from Jesus) in the Kingdom, and everything in between.