Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

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Jan 12, 2019
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Yes, I am pre-trib... and though you and I may have some differences in our views (regarding this doctrine), I THINK we both agree that the passages stating "he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved" apply DURING the very specific, future, limited time period leading up to Christ's Second Coming to the earth (during the time period FOLLOWING our Rapture), and not like how Calvinists [etc] try to apply it to "this present age [singular]" (i.e. NOW), skewing its true application (and also its actual meaning), and, basically wreaking havoc... in the minds of those impacted by such [incorrect] teachings.

Also, I think perhaps you and I agree that Luke 21:36 is not a "Rapture" verse, but applies at the specific time period (like the above) FOLLOWING our Rapture (DURING the trib years):

Luke 21:36 -

Berean Literal Bible -
"Watch also at every season, praying that you may have strength to escape [(active) flee out of] all these things that are about to come to pass and to stand before the Son of Man."

King James Bible -
"Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape [(active) flee out of] all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."


[the above verse, applying (as specific [and direct] "instruction") to those on the earth following our Rapture, DURING the tribulation period (7-yrs/70th-Wk) being completely DISTINCT from that which was stated to/for/about "the Church which is His body" (US), in 1Th5:9-10, "...Who died for us, [in order] that, whether we may watch [same Greek word as in v.6] OR whether we may sleep [same Grk word as in v.6 (NOT the Grk word used for "sleep/died" in chpt 4!)] we should live together WITH [G4862 ('UNIONED-with')] HIM"]


Do we see these several passages in the same way? Meaning especially the ones that pertain specifically to the future tribulation period (following our Rapture/Departure)… so that, those two [basically two] passages that are often misapplied to "this present age" actually pertain to a very specific limited future time period (following our Rapture).
Yep, I agree that Luke 21 is very much linked to Matt 24.

And yes, many people tend to apply Matt 24 to our church age now, esp v14, where they claim that Christians should be preaching the Great Commission because Jesus won't come back until we preach it to the whole world.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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Yep, I agree that Luke 21 is very much linked to Matt 24.

And yes, many people tend to apply Matt 24 to our church age now, esp v14, where they claim that Christians should be preaching the Great Commission because Jesus won't come back until we preach it to the whole world.
We agree there. These take place on the earth following our Rapture/Departure. (That is its context.) Yes. (y)
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
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Not during the church age, but its very possible during the Tribulation by taking the mark of the beast, as everyone here also agrees...........
Please show scripture which supports this new age religion thinking? My KJV 1611 edition does not contain anything which could be remotely in support of ODSAS.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Please show scripture which supports this new age religion thinking? My KJV 1611 edition does not contain anything which could be remotely in support of ODSAS.
I assume you are talking about the church age?

Its quite simple, its a gift from God to all of us. When you give a gift to your kids or your loved ones, do you take it back under any condition once they have received that gift from you?
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
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It is quite simple....stop being a righteous person and G-d will strip you of your born again status.

OSAS is one of the most dumb and absent of common sense approaches to G-d's word and intent I have observed.
Really sad.

This concept has genesis in the proper conclusion that once G-d says we have eternal salvation by His judgement no one can take it away. That got spun into no loss from earthly born again while here status.
Once born again we MUST endure until the end being righteous.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Adam was in the garden

If we use Osas formula once save always save

Once in the Garden always in the Garden.

It mean God Will do what ever He can to make Adam not Eat the forbiden fruit to keep him in the garden

The fact is God give a free Will to Adam and he lose his right to stay in the Garden.

To me It is paralel with salvation.

Salvation is by grace

Adam in the Garden is by grace, Adam not make Garden, God is

So Being in the Garden is a grace, is that mean he can not lose his grace?

You can keep your grace as long as not Eat the forbiden fruit.
 

Nat2019

Active member
Jul 14, 2019
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Almost every post you make makes a mockery of grace.....not to mention Jesus, the truth, faith, and a plethora of other words found within biblical truth!
(Every) post I make is mockery of Grace wow. Wow even other scriptures are. Ones that have nothing to do with Grace. Every Post I made wasnt even about grace. So how can you say that?.
 

Nat2019

Active member
Jul 14, 2019
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Almost (Every) post I make is mockery of Grace wow. Wow even other scriptures are. Ones that have nothing to do with Grace. Nearly every Post I made wasnt even about grace. So how can you say that?.
 

Nat2019

Active member
Jul 14, 2019
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Adam was in the garden

If we use Osas formula once save always save

Once in the Garden always in the Garden.

It mean God Will do what ever He can to make Adam not Eat the forbiden fruit to keep him in the garden

The fact is God give a free Will to Adam and he lose his right to stay in the Garden.

To me It is paralel with salvation.

Salvation is by grace

Adam in the Garden is by grace, Adam not make Garden, God is

So Being in the Garden is a grace, is that mean he can not lose his grace?

You can keep your grace as long as not Eat the forbiden fruit.
Apparently God controls OSAS'ers but wheres the evidence. They surely arent perfect and another thing is I have been to so many OSAS churches and i haven't seen righteous living from most of the people, my previous pastor watches "Jersey shore" and told us, we just want to see how other people live. It seems more like a social club. All I used to do was play games with these people and another person goes "let's go church surfing" as if it were bar hopping.
 

Nat2019

Active member
Jul 14, 2019
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Here are a few scriptures regarding effort- since I am always being accused of trying to earn my salvation through self effort.

These scriptures arent about salvation, but what we must to do after we are born again-

*But says -without holiness no one will see the Lord.
- So if we dont have holiness we won't see the Lord.

Warning and Encouragement
14 (Make every effort) to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.

*What was must do in accordance with Faith.

2 Peter 1:5-8 New International Version (NIV)
5 For this very reason, (make every effort) to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge;6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love.8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
*Making every effort to enter the narrow door.

Luke 13:24-30 New International Version (NIV)
24 “(Make every effort) to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. 25 Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, ‘Sir, open the door for us.’

If you have a test and you put "effort" in to study? Is that "your" effort? Or is it
Gods effort. You can pray God helps you, but who does all the studying, reading and writing?.
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
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It is quite simple....stop being a righteous person and G-d will strip you of your born again status.

OSAS is one of the most dumb and absent of common sense approaches to G-d's word and intent I have observed.
Really sad.

This concept has genesis in the proper conclusion that once G-d says we have eternal salvation by His judgement no one can take it away. That got spun into no loss from earthly born again while here status.
Once born again we MUST endure until the end being righteous.
Does this mean you don't believe salvation is a gift from God?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Apparently God controls OSAS'ers but wheres the evidence. They surely arent perfect and another thing is I have been to so many OSAS churches and i haven't seen righteous living from most of the people, my previous pastor watches "Jersey shore" and told us, we just want to see how other people live. It seems more like a social club. All I used to do was play games with these people and another person goes "let's go church surfing" as if it were bar hopping.
By evaluate the story of Adam, we have an idea about God mindset.

I am going to repeat the similarity of the story of Adam Being lose his Garden residency and losing salvation

1. Being in the Garden is a grace, Adam not work to make a Garden, It is by grace

1. Salvation is by grace not by work.

2. There is a requirement to keep his residency ( not Eat forbiden fruit)

2. There is requairement to be save (accepting Jesus or believe in Him)

3. When Adam breaking the rule, he lose his residency

3. I believe When we breaking the rule (not believe in Jesus anymore) we lose our salvation
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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(Every) post I make is mockery of Grace wow. Wow even other scriptures are. Ones that have nothing to do with Grace. Every Post I made wasnt even about grace. So how can you say that?.
It is possible to be locked into a mindset. This mindset reinterprets everything we write into particular
motivations, of truth and lies. So the expression written relates to friend or foe and details are not important.

Truth seekers, see people for who they are, and then desires to share to their hearts.
Soldiers defend their position and destroy the enemy whenever possible.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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Almost every post you make makes a mockery of grace.....not to mention Jesus, the truth, faith, and a plethora of other words found within biblical truth!
This is just a full frontal assault without context or content.
It is also absurd. Anyone preaching faith through the cross is preaching grace, love, hope, salvation and
transformation.

The only people who care about this language are sincere believers. It is like getting a hand grenade
and pulling the pin. It is just self destructive, and shows the lack of distinguishing between sinful
behaviour and our walk in love and faith with Jesus.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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(Every) post I make is mockery of Grace wow. Wow even other scriptures are. Ones that have nothing to do with Grace. Every Post I made wasnt even about grace. So how can you say that?.
Nice embellishment of what I said.....I said ALMOST EVERY not EVERY.....do you have an honest bone in your body?
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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Sure.....you say and repeat the same drivel she used to blather on about like full cream butter on a piece of burnt toast
My friend, where is the respect. Did you read Nats testimony of a sinful lifestyle, riven with trying
to believe while living in unresolved sin, and failing and finally coming to faith and repentance,
grace and truth in walking the way of Jesus?

When ones father is destroyed by drugs, but finally comes to faith as they are dying, Amen.
Glory be to God on high.

This is the gospel at work, its power to change sinners into saints, to reach down and pull
out truth and hope, from lies, sin and death.

Appeasement to the struggles of perfectionists who can only condemn themselves so abandon
any love or reasonable moral standard is just denying Jesus and the cross, because love is not
allowed to break out in the heart.

What is sad is you do not see when Gods precious work is before you, all you can do is condemn
the very thing Jesus has worked so hard to bring about.

God bless you, may in humbleness we all come before the throne of grace and bow the knee to
His ways and His will, Amen
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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Context dictates the application of calling.....and to take it to an extreme just because the word calling is used = a misapplication of the word
You and I obviously disagree on context - I am OK with that . . . God bless you, brother!
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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Nice embellishment of what I said.....I said ALMOST EVERY not EVERY.....do you have an honest bone in your body?
So "almost" is now a reason to say someone is totally dishonest and a liar?
I think you live for these moments, this interplay, this mission.

A lone spiritual fighter, standing heroically against the impossible, overwhelming enemy.
Except the enemy are works of Christ, seeking to share the wonderful work He has done
in their hearts. How can something so sincere and heart felt end up in such a car crash?