Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

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notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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So your saying a person cant ever be tempted again by the devil. Watch and pray you resist temptation, the spirit is willing the flesh is weak.
Learn the distinction between sanctification and salvation. Is the sinner tempted by righteousness? We cannot resist temptation without the assistance of the indwelling Holy Spirit. Walk in the light as He is in the light.

Religion cannot save only Jesus can save.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Nat2019

Active member
Jul 14, 2019
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237
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His faith is counted for righteousness. Its talking about FAITH;). Our FAITH being counted as righteousness.
No where here does it say your sins are covered. Its referring to Faith seen as righteousness.
 

Nat2019

Active member
Jul 14, 2019
890
237
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Learn the distinction between sanctification and salvation. Is the sinner tempted by righteousness? We cannot resist temptation without the assistance of the indwelling Holy Spirit. Walk in the light as He is in the light.

Religion cannot save only Jesus can save.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.

Of course but it doesn't mean you cant go back to your sinful lifestyle. Otherwise you would be Jesus. "PERFECT"
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
His faith is counted for righteousness. Its talking about FAITH;). Our FAITH being counted as righteousness.
Oh boy... all our righteousness is a filthy rags

Here....

Romans 4:22
22 This is why “it was credited to him as righteousness.” 23 The words “it was credited to him” were written not for him alone, 24 but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
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Jesus died to make salvation freely available to all, not to prop up the idea that after you get saved you can do your own thing and still get to Heaven. Just read the Bible. It is lucid and clear. Do an honest study of Hebrews 10 and John 15. Truth is neither convoluted nor cryptic.
 

Nat2019

Active member
Jul 14, 2019
890
237
43
Oh boy... all our righteousness is a filthy rags

Here....

Romans 4:22
22 This is why “it was credited to him as righteousness.” 23 The words “it was credited to him” were written not for him alone, 24 but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.
But Righteousness "by Faith" is biblical.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
But Righteousness "by Faith" is biblical.
Faith is the vehicle, it is the means by which we receive the gift of salvation, that gift includes being justified. We are justified because of the righteousness of Christ credited to us.

It is the object of our faith that saves.

Faith by its very definition needs to be in something or someone >>> it needs an object.
 

Nat2019

Active member
Jul 14, 2019
890
237
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But Righteousness "by Faith" is biblical.
Hi all these chapters talk about Abraham being "JUSTIFIED BY FAITH" Abrahams Faith was counted as Righteousness.

Romans 4 New International Version (NIV)
Abraham Justified by Faith
4 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[a]
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation.5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”[b]
9 Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness.10 Under what circumstances was it credited? Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before! 11 And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them. 12 And he is then also the father of the circumcised who not only are circumcised but who also follow in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.
13 It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promisethat he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14 For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless,15 because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
16 Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.17 As it is written: “I have made you a father of many nations.”[c] He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls into being things that were not.
18 Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, “So shall your offspring be.”[d] 19 Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as good as dead—since he was about a hundred years old—and that Sarah’s womb was also dead.20 Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, 21 being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised.22 This is why “it was credited to him as righteousness.” 23 The words “it was credited to him” were written not for him alone,24 but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
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Faith is the vehicle, it is the means by which we receive the gift of salvation, that gift includes being justified. We are justified because of the righteousness of Christ credited to us.

It is the object of our faith that saves.

Faith by its very definition needs to be in something or someone >>> it needs an object.
Faith in Christ is but a calling and not all that are called will be chosen; few of them that are called will be chosen.
Obeying the Lord's command to love one another is the 'being chosen', without this, there's no salvation.
 

Nat2019

Active member
Jul 14, 2019
890
237
43
Faith is the vehicle, it is the means by which we receive the gift of salvation, that gift includes being justified. We are justified because of the righteousness of Christ credited to us.

It is the object of our faith that saves.

Faith by its very definition needs to be in something or someone >>> it needs an object.
Sorry what your saying makes no sense to me:(
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
1,470
689
113
Two scenarios, one in the garden with the 1st Adam, #2 with the birth of Jesus. #2 saved #1 and all who by faith, accept His gift and are reconciled to God. Have faith in #2, not #1. Jesus will save you, Adam #1 proved we need Adam #2.

It’s about reconciliation folks, we cannot be reconciled without Jesus.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
The Bible plainly states in Hebrews 10 and John 15 that salvation can be forfeited. Many prodigal sons will never return. In the last days there shall be many who will turn away and leave their first love. Many of us believed OSAS until we started studying the Bible rather than just listening to ear tickling preachers.
Bet those people will be so sad they failed to earn their salvation and the love of God..

I guess I will pray you live in a way you can earn it.. Maybe there will be hope for you.

My hope is in christ.
 

Nat2019

Active member
Jul 14, 2019
890
237
43
Bet those people will be so sad they failed to earn their salvation and the love of God..

I guess I will pray you live in a way you can earn it.. Maybe there will be hope for you.

My hope is in christ.
We Earn our salvation through a Real "faith". That produces Good works. :).
 

Nat2019

Active member
Jul 14, 2019
890
237
43
Two scenarios, one in the garden with the 1st Adam, #2 with the birth of Jesus. #2 saved #1 and all who by faith, accept His gift and are reconciled to God. Have faith in #2, not #1. Jesus will save you, Adam #1 proved we need Adam #2.

It’s about reconciliation folks, we cannot be reconciled without Jesus.
Wow alot of #.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Jesus died to make salvation freely available to all, not to prop up the idea that after you get saved you can do your own thing and still get to Heaven. Just read the Bible. It is lucid and clear. Do an honest study of Hebrews 10 and John 15. Truth is neither convoluted nor cryptic.
Again, you are arguing that we make grace a license to sin.

Paul dealt with this same issue, people who were having a problem with Grace, those people were slandering Paul saying that he taught evil (sin) so that good would come... that is distorted reasoning.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
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If you receive the genuine article from Christ you know it cannot be taken away nor forfeited. The butterfly cannot return to the caterpillar state of his life and you cannot be born again in Christ and just forfeit that new life to the devil.
We do not base sound doctrine on butterflies; we base it on the Word of God. You can misinterpret it if you want to, but you will not be able to use this as an excuse before God. I tell you this because I love you.