Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

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Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
1,470
689
113
Sorry I haven't found the work "imputed" anywhere in the bible. If God was totally controlling us then we would never sin again.
Variations of the term impute are used 15 times in Scripture, here’s one;
Romans 4:6 (KJV)
[6] Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
Do you need to continue believing or do you believe once when you say the sinners repentance prayer?
Did I ever mention the sinners prayer?

Being born again is coming into agreement with God that what He states is true....

ie......... all our righteousness is as filthy rags, we have no hope of achieving heaven, we need a perfect Saviour, Jesus is the perfect Saviour, He took on our sins, we trade our sins and self effort FOR His perfection, we accept His gift of salvation ...given to us by the grace of God through faith in His work on the cross for us.
 

Nat2019

Active member
Jul 14, 2019
890
237
43
John said a child of God can not continue in sin, Why do you dismiss Johns words?

1 John 3 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
1 John 3:6 New International Version (NIV)
6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning.No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

It says here "continues" to sin

If your saying we cant sin- then we must be perfect now.
If we say we have no sin we are liars and the truth is not in us.

1 John 1:8-10 New International Version (NIV)
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sinsand purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

If you were perfect and couldn't sin again why would this prayer be here?

Matthew 26:41 New International Version (NIV)
41 “Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Did I ever mention the sinners prayer?

Being born again is coming into agreement with God that what He states is true....

ie......... all our righteousness is a filthy rags we have no hope of achieving heaven, we need a perfect Saviour, Jesus is the perfect Saviour, He took on our sins, we trade our sins and self effort FOR His perfection, we accept His gift of salvation ...given to us by the grace of God through faith in His work on the cross for us.
The tax collector.

The pharisees in the room can not comprehend that.. They boast of their righteousness, and attack our sins, praising God they are not like us.. and can not see it.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
Amen! Authentic faith in Christ that saves continues and is not some shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away.
Agree, once we place our faith in Christ, He is the one who is faithful, even when we are faithless so we know we are secure in Him.

New International Version
if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself.

He is within us.... therefore He cannot disown Himself... we are secure in Him, He in us and us in Him!!

Amen and Amen
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
Gods word tells us that God uses nature to demonstrate what He alone has declared to be true. I tell you that the new creature in Christ cannot revert to the old creature before Christ. Romans 1:19-20
Isn't that wonderful? Have you ever watched a moth fly into the fire after hatching out of it's cacoon? Have you ever watched a dog return to it's vomit?
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
Isn't that wonderful? Have you ever watched a moth fly into the fire after hatching out of it's cacoon? Have you ever watched a dog return to it's vomit?
Yup, that happens sometimes.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
You do not understand at all. No it would not make us sinless. It is Christ’s blood covering us, so God the father can not see our sin.. Its called redemption. Its called the righteousness of CHrist being put in us
Got to love this, "You do not understand at all"

You - a focusing on an individual
do not understand - a complete put down to the level incompetence
at all - negligence

Put simply this is a lie. It would be hard to find anyone who is discussing our faith,
who does not have a reasonable understanding of the fundamentals, especially if
they are co-herently distinguishing between OSAS and other positions with a high level
of understanding. So this can only be a simple insult, a debasing and full frontal
assault. Once you start with this, the rest is probably irrelevant, because whatever
it might be it is not a good tree with figs or grapes to give food for the soul and spirit
who is sharing, but a false teacher.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
Agree, once we place our faith in Christ, He is the one who is faithful, even when we are faithless so we know we are secure in Him.

New International Version
if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself.

He is within us.... therefore He cannot disown Himself... we are secure in Him, He in us and us in Him!!

Amen and Amen
Q. What do you understand by this phrase?

1 Cor 13:2........ and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
Amen! Authentic faith in Christ that saves continues and is not some shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away.
Q. What do you understand by this phrase?

1 Cor 13:2........ and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
 

Nat2019

Active member
Jul 14, 2019
890
237
43
Did I ever mention the sinners prayer?

Being born again is coming into agreement with God that what He states is true....

ie......... all our righteousness is as filthy rags, we have no hope of achieving heaven, we need a perfect Saviour, Jesus is the perfect Saviour, He took on our sins, we trade our sins and self effort FOR His perfection, we accept His gift of salvation ...given to us by the grace of God through faith in His work on the cross for us.
Isaiah 64:6
Variations of the term impute are used 15 times in Scripture, here’s one;
Romans 4:6 (KJV)
[6] Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Faith is credited as righteousness.

Romans 4:5-7 New International Version (NIV)
5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
 

Nat2019

Active member
Jul 14, 2019
890
237
43
Q. What do you understand by this phrase?

1 Cor 13:2........ and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
2 Timothy 2:12 New International Version (NIV)
12 if we endure,
we will also reign with him.
If we disown him,
he will also disown us;
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
1 John 3:6 New International Version (NIV)
6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning.No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

It says here "continues" to sin

If your saying we cant sin- then we must be perfect now.
If we say we have no sin we are liars and the truth is not in us.

1 John 1:8-10 New International Version (NIV)
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sinsand purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

If you were perfect and couldn't sin again why would this prayer be here?

Matthew 26:41 New International Version (NIV)
41 “Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”
Habitual sin

Continues to sin


Willful sin

That was your argument my friend. Stick to it, I never said a person can not sin. Not suggested it.. Your being dishonest.
 

Nat2019

Active member
Jul 14, 2019
890
237
43
Isn't that wonderful? Have you ever watched a moth fly into the fire after hatching out of it's cacoon? Have you ever watched a dog return to it's vomit?
If the new creature cant go back to the old creature. Then that's sinless perfection. Yet I am accused of being a legalist.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Isn't that wonderful? Have you ever watched a moth fly into the fire after hatching out of it's cacoon? Have you ever watched a dog return to it's vomit?
Thats just it

A believer is a new creation in christ jesus

He stopped being a dog. So he would not return to his vomit.

A dog PLAYING christian however (not a true believer) will RETURN to their own vomit. Because it is what they ARE
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
Q. What do you understand by this phrase?

1 Cor 13:2........ and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
Paul is speaking to the spiritual gifts here and is using hyperbole (an imaginary person) and analogy to teach that love is paramount.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
If the new creature cant go back to the old creature. Then that's sinless perfection. Yet I am accused of being a legalist.
Ok so lets see

A dog, is made into a new creation (by the creator himself) and the new creation is supposed to turn himself BACk into a dog? :LOL:

Do you listen to yourself?