Why is the "Message Of The Cross" foolishness to those who are perishing...

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
18,494
6,225
113
53
#21
Righteousness is only awarded by God by Faith in Christ and Him Crucified (Romans 4:5); therefore you can't be justified.

It is by "Grace" through "Faith" that the "Temple" is built. The "Temple was to be built under Solomon; not the sound of a hammer, not the sound of a tool, i.e., not one sound of mans labor.

The only thing that God will accept from any Believer is "Faith" in His Son Jesus and the Cross of Calvary where the victory was won, i.e., The Finished Work, i.e., The Blood of Jesus.
Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works.

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Pretty simple and straightforward. (y)
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,117
2,985
113
#22
What is Swaggarts doctrine?
I have no Idea
 
Sep 3, 2016
3,599
314
83
#25
Eh? :unsure:

Romans 4:5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God
who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.
You are quoting as 99% do, the letter, and have no understanding of the spiritual meaning.

The secret of the Lord is with them that fear Him; and He will shew them His covenant. Psalm 25:14
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
29,036
7,449
113
64
Florida
#26
Many on CC believe that the "Message of the Cross" is the Jimmy Swaggart doctrine. The Apostle Paul clearly states in Romans 2:16 these words, "In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. Let me repeat this because this is very, very, important! Paul said the person will be judge by his gospel! Which is the "Message of the Cross." Christ Crucified! In other words, was your Faith placed and maintained exclusively in Christ and the Cross of Calvary where the victory was won. No other way will God award righteousness to the Believer.
You would have more credibility by not cutting - pasting from his site as he is a deplorable example of a Christian especially in regards to faithfulness in marriage.

If you actually wrote your own posts in your own words, expressing your own thoughts or perception (using appropriate scripture if necessary) perhaps your posts would actually be read instead of just being generally ignored. As it currently stands your ministry on Christian Chat is ineffective and therefore not spiritually edifying.

You are a long-time member yet you remain an unknown entity because you refuse to share even the most minute detail of your day to day life, who you are and what you are about. Personally, I would be very interested in what makes you tick and what your spiritual views actually are. Posting endless cut-n-paste from Jimmy Swaggart ministries is a definite turn-off for me, regardless of what is presented. I am sure that there are other members who hold similar views on that unfaithful shyster.
 
Sep 3, 2016
3,599
314
83
#27
Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Paul said that you can fall from the same grace that saved you! Gal. 5:4

As I stated before, anything and everything that is not Faith placed and maintained exclusively in Christ is "LAW!!!!!!!"
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
27,797
6,268
113
#28
You are quoting as 99% do, the letter, and have no understanding of the spiritual meaning.

The secret of the Lord is with them that fear Him; and He will shew them His covenant. Psalm 25:14
Perfect love casts out fear. The verse you alluded to -which I posted- said nothing of the cross. It seems you lack understanding of plain English, and feel you must go around slandering those who do to make up for your deficiency.

you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers and sisters.

9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men

10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
18,494
6,225
113
53
#29
Paul said that you can fall from the same grace that saved you! Gal. 5:4

As I stated before, anything and everything that is not Faith placed and maintained exclusively in Christ is "LAW!!!!!!!"
The present tense of the word "justified" implies that these Galatians were contemplating justification by the law. They were getting side tracked by legalistic teachers. "You who are trying to be justified by the law have fallen away from grace," but had they fully come to that place yet? Galatians 3:3 reads: Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? The middle voice implies "making yourselves perfect" by means of self effort. The present tense indicates that the action is in progress and that there is still time to correct the error.

If these Galatians permanently fell away from grace and lost their salvation and it was a done deal, then why didn't Paul simply say you "lost your salvation" and I'm done with you? Instead, in verse 10, he said - I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is. Why would Paul have confidence in these Galatians if they lost their salvation and it's all over for them? In verse 12, Paul uses hyperbole, As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!
 
Sep 3, 2016
3,599
314
83
#30
Perfect love casts out fear. The verse you alluded to -which I posted- said nothing of the cross. It seems you lack understanding of plain English, and feel you must go around slandering those who do to make up for your deficiency.
Please read this and study this because the time is near!

Your Word for Today

"Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God’s Righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the Righteousness of God (Rom. 10:1-3).

The main purpose of the Holy Spirit giving us, through Paul, Chapters 9 through 11 of Romans was not, as stated, for Prophetical analysis, even though that, in measure, was given, but rather to warn the Church. If the Church follows in Israel’s footsteps by being ignorant of God’s Righteousness or by refusing God’s Righteousness, attempting, as Israel, to establish its own righteousness, the Church will be cut off just as Israel was cut off.

Concerning this, Paul said, “For if God spared not the natural branches (Israel), take heed lest He also spare not you (refers to the Church, as is obvious). Behold, therefore the goodness and severity of God (don’t mistake the Goodness of God for license): on them which fell, severity (speaks of Judgment which came on Israel, God’s chosen People); but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His Goodness (proclaims the conditions; the continuing of that “Goodness” pertains to continued Faith in Christ and the Cross): otherwise you also shall be cut off” (Rom. 11:21-22).

“God’s Righteousness” is that which is afforded by Jesus Christ, gained by and through the Cross. The only way that God’s Righteousness can be given to anyone is by virtue of the Cross, which demands Faith on the part of the recipient. If one attempts to gain righteousness by any other manner, the Lord refers to it as “self-righteousness,” and it is unacceptable — totally unacceptable!

I ask the following question:

How much is the modern Church preaching the Cross? The answer screams back at us, “Precious little!”

The Church has already apostatized. The Church Age opened with Christ standing in the midst of the candlesticks, in which the candlesticks represent the Church (Rev. 1:12-13). At the close of the Church Age, which pertains to the present time, we no longer find Christ in the midst of the Church, but rather outside, knocking on the door, trying to get it (Rev. 3:17-20). The Lord is, in fact, no longer dealing with the institutionalized Church as a whole, but rather with individuals only.

To be sure, the Lord has always dealt with individuals, but now it is only individuals.

“If any man hear My Voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with Me” (Rev. 3:20). So, who presently is saved?

It is the same now as it was with Israel of old.

Paul said, “Even so then at this present time (Paul’s day) also there is a Remnant according to the election of Grace (definitely speaks of Predestination, but not as many think; it is the “Remnant” that is elected or predestined, not who will be in the Remnant).

“And if by Grace (the Goodness of God, all made possible by the Cross), then is it no more of works (no one can point to their works as grounds for Salvation): otherwise Grace is no more Grace (if works are mixed with Grace, they nullify Grace). But if it be of works, then is it no more Grace (works can never produce Grace): otherwise work is no more work” (for example, Water Baptism, if acted upon wrongly, nullifies its true meaning; this also holds true for all other great Ordinances of the Lord) (Rom. 11:5-6).

As there was a “Remnant” in Israel who were saved, meaning that most were lost, likewise, there also is a “Remnant” in the modern Church who are saved, but only a Remnant. Israel had rejected much of that which was of the Lord, but when they rejected the Cross, there was nothing left. They were cut off. The modern Church has done the same thing. It has rejected much which is of the Lord, but now it is rejecting the Cross. As with Israel, if the Cross is rejected, that means the Righteousness of God is rejected, and that means the Church is also cut off — except for the “Remnant.”

Are you in the Remnant?

The only way that anyone can be in the Remnant is by accepting Christ and what Christ did at the Cross. There is no other way!"’

—Donnie Swaggart (taken from the “Word for Every Day”)
Donnie Swaggart
 
Sep 3, 2016
3,599
314
83
#32
The present tense of the word "justified" implies that these Galatians were contemplating justification by the law. They were getting side tracked by legalistic teachers. "You who are trying to be justified by the law have fallen away from grace," but had they fully come to that place yet? Galatians 3:3 reads: Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? The middle voice implies "making yourselves perfect" by means of self effort. The present tense indicates that the action is in progress and that there is still time to correct the error.

If these Galatians permanently fell away from grace and lost their salvation and it was a done deal, then why didn't Paul simply say you "lost your salvation" and I'm done with you? Instead, in verse 10, he said - I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is. Why would Paul have confidence in these Galatians if they lost their salvation and it's all over for them? In verse 12, Paul uses hyperbole, As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!
Please read post # 30.
 
Sep 3, 2016
3,599
314
83
#33
The present tense of the word "justified" implies that these Galatians were contemplating justification by the law. They were getting side tracked by legalistic teachers. "You who are trying to be justified by the law have fallen away from grace," but had they fully come to that place yet? Galatians 3:3 reads: Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? The middle voice implies "making yourselves perfect" by means of self effort. The present tense indicates that the action is in progress and that there is still time to correct the error.

If these Galatians permanently fell away from grace and lost their salvation and it was a done deal, then why didn't Paul simply say you "lost your salvation" and I'm done with you? Instead, in verse 10, he said - I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is. Why would Paul have confidence in these Galatians if they lost their salvation and it's all over for them? In verse 12, Paul uses hyperbole, As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!
If you reject the Cross, i.e., the Finished Work, i.e., The Blood of Jesus; you have fallen from grace and no longer Righteous and Justified.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
11,206
5,616
113
#34
I learned a new word today :D Thank you! But I cannot pronounce it:giggle:
/səˈnekdəkē/

sih-NEK-dih-KEE. There is almost no emphasis on the 'dih'. There is a pronunciation applet on many online dictionaries. :)
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
18,494
6,225
113
53
#35
I ask the following question:

How much is the modern Church preaching the Cross? The answer screams back at us, “Precious little!”
What do you believe the modern Church is preaching in place of the Cross? Believers already know that if works are mixed with Grace, they nullify Grace. I'm still trying to figure out your angle. :unsure:
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
18,494
6,225
113
53
#36
If you reject the Cross, i.e., the Finished Work, i.e., The Blood of Jesus; you have fallen from grace and no longer Righteous and Justified.
Show me the words, "no longer righteous and justified" in the Bible. Also, show me the words, "lost salvation" in the Bible. You seem to be implying that numerous, genuine born again Christians all around the world (except for you) have surely rejected the Cross/the finished work of Jesus/the blood of Jesus etc.. and have fallen from grace and lost their salvation. :cautious:
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
11,206
5,616
113
#37
Paul said that you can fall from the same grace that saved you! Gal. 5:4

As I stated before, anything and everything that is not Faith placed and maintained exclusively in Christ is "LAW!!!!!!!"
WRONG! SO WRONG! Paul is talking about the Law of Moses, not some alleged law made up by a disgraced televangelist two thousand years after the fact. Don't take Scripture out of its context and expect to make sound doctrine from it.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,117
2,985
113
#39
What do you believe the modern Church is preaching in place of the Cross? Believers already know that if works are mixed with Grace, they nullify Grace. I'm still trying to figure out your angle. :unsure:
It's not his angle. It's JS's angle.
 
Sep 3, 2016
3,599
314
83
#40
Show me the words, "no longer righteous and justified" in the Bible. Also, show me the words, "lost salvation" in the Bible. You seem to be implying that numerous, genuine born again Christians all around the world (except for you) have surely rejected the Cross/the finished work of Jesus/the blood of Jesus etc.. and have fallen from grace and lost their salvation. :cautious:
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. Gal. 5:4