Why so much confusion about salvation?

[shrume]

...so, I would be curious to know when you think you have proved me wrong with scriptures... Your primary, and maybe even only, response to me when you disagree is to accuse me of "spinning".

s...,
Always when you get yourself in a corner from believing in that bible you are writing....you spin in attempt to save face.

Yet another accusation of "spinning". Yawn...

You don't disagree with me you disagree with G-d and The Bible....many times.

No, it's you, Preston. Or rather your interpretation of the Bible.

 

[theanointedsinner]

here's the thing, say for example a Christian believe in "if saved, always saved", and that "good works is evidence of salvation", however throughout the walk that Christian struggle with doubts from time to time, doubting salvation etc.

If that Christian does not get proper assurance for salvation, they will think "for now, I have to do something, at least for now", and if practiced sufficiently and repeatedly, that in a sense becomes "work-based salvation"

and let's say that Christian know that man can never contribute to salvation, that it's all reliant on God's power
sometimes, in their walk there's spiritual dryness, or that God seem distant, they try to assure themselves some way, which goes back to "work based salvation"

or, they think up of strange theology to reconcile with those difficult times, these are possibilities ...

to help explain why there are so much confusion about salvation

 

[preston39]

here's the thing, say for example a Christian believe in "if saved, always saved", and that "good works is evidence of salvation", however throughout the walk that Christian struggle with doubts from time to time, doubting salvation etc.

If that Christian does not get proper assurance for salvation, they will think "for now, I have to do something, at least for now", and if practiced sufficiently and repeatedly, that in a sense becomes "work-based salvation"

and let's say that Christian know that man can never contribute to salvation, that it's all reliant on God's power
sometimes, in their walk there's spiritual dryness, or that God seem distant, they try to assure themselves some way, which goes back to "work based salvation"

or, they think up of strange theology to reconcile with those difficult times, these are possibilities ...

to help explain why there are so much confusion about salvation

here's the thing, say for example a Christian believe in "if saved, always saved", and that "good works is evidence of salvation", however throughout the walk that Christian struggle with doubts from time to time, doubting salvation etc.

If that Christian does not get proper assurance for salvation, they will think "for now, I have to do something, at least for now", and if practiced sufficiently and repeatedly, that in a sense becomes "work-based salvation"

and let's say that Christian know that man can never contribute to salvation, that it's all reliant on God's power
sometimes, in their walk there's spiritual dryness, or that God seem distant, they try to assure themselves some way, which goes back to "work based salvation"

or, they think up of strange theology to reconcile with those difficult times, these are possibilities ...

to help explain why there are so much confusion about salvation

t...,
Isn't there another....what about being channeled to being more righteous?

I'm hopeful many more..... than just applying works.

 

[Deade]

Are you a universalist, Deade? Do you think God will see to it that everyone will eventually be saved? (I’ve kinda picked that up from some of your posts..)

No, I am not a universalist. But I believe many more will be saved than most think. We are given a picture in the Feast of Tabernacles also called the Feast of Ingathering of the millennial reign. The Last Great Day pictures the White Throne Judgment, which is not just a trial as we think but a time period that will allow those that hadn't received the HS in this life. This is after the second resurrection. Some will be resurrected to damnation, that had been given the HS and walked away from God and became retrobates. The judgment is when all the ignorant of Jesus, babies, stillborn, mentally ill, etc. that couldn't choose in this life will be called.

 

[theanointedsinner]

No, I am not a universalist. But I believe many more will be saved than most think. We are given a picture in the Feast of Tabernacles also called the Feast of Ingathering of the millennial reign. The Last Great Day pictures the White Throne Judgment, which is not just a trial as we think but a time period that will allow those that hadn't received the HS in this life. This is after the second resurrection. Some will be resurrected to damnation, that had been given the HS and walked away from God and became retrobates. The judgment is when all the ignorant of Jesus, babies, stillborn, mentally ill, etc. that couldn't choose in this life will be called.

there's the second resurrection? then please, we want Jesus to come quickly, like now, today, this moment, this second, now
mass salvation, yippie!

 

[preston39]

No, I am not a universalist. But I believe many more will be saved than most think. We are given a picture in the Feast of Tabernacles also called the Feast of Ingathering of the millennial reign. The Last Great Day pictures the White Throne Judgment, which is not just a trial as we think but a time period that will allow those that hadn't received the HS in this life. This is after the second resurrection. Some will be resurrected to damnation, that had been given the HS and walked away from God and became retrobates. The judgment is when all the ignorant of Jesus, babies, stillborn, mentally ill, etc. that couldn't choose in this life will be called.

D...,
I hope you are correct. But, even scriptures warn us that... few will find the way.......(I tremble when pondering that warning..to see if I am doing as I should....it is always a reminder to be self critical of my righteousness ) truly a sad warning opposing your thought of many.
G-d seems perfectly correct in The Bible so I tend to follow His teachings.

 

[theanointedsinner]

D...,
I hope you are correct. But, even scriptures warn us that... few will find the way.......truly a sad warning opposing your thought of many.
G-d seems perfectly correct in The Bible so I tend to follow His teachings.

unfortuately we can't get too excited about "few will find the way"

 

[Nehemiah6]

I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, who never said that he died for the whole world.

Really? If you believe the Lord Jesus Christ, why don't you believe His own words?

JOHN 3
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Can any honest person read this and say blatantly: who never said that he died for the whole world ? Do you see Calvinistic dishonesty, since those are all the words of Christ?

 

[Blanche]

Can any honest person read this and say blatantly: who never said that he died for the whole world ? Do you see Calvinistic dishonesty, since those are all the words of Christ?[/QUOTE]

Yes, I see it. Calvin was not God.

 

[mailmandan]

God is not the author of confusion and that salvation by grace through faith and is not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9) is not hard to understand. It’s just hard for works-salvationists to ACCEPT. It’s a shame that human pride will not allow such people to place their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to take hold of Christ through faith.

 

[tanakh]

The central difference between belief in Christ for salvation and every Religion or Philosophy one could mention is that in Christ salvation is a free gift that cant be earned by ''being good enough'' Every other system depends on self effort.

 

[mailmandan]

The 3 tenses of salvation also cause confusion and often get mixed up by works-salvationists.

1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification) 2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification) 3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The 3 tenses of salvation also cause confusion and often get mixed up by works-salvationists.

1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification) 2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification) 3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification).

as usual, you hit the nail on the head brother. Amen.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The central difference between belief in Christ for salvation and every Religion or Philosophy one could mention is that in Christ salvation is a free gift that cant be earned by ''being good enough'' Every other system depends on self effort.

and I would add that God also offers us eternal life, vs conditional life, which is all the worlds religions offer. ie, God offers hope. based on him, vs a false hope. based on what you do or do not do.

 

[notuptome]

OP the reason for all the confusion is simple. There is so much denial of salvation. Men have invented more ways to deny the Deity of Christ and the sinfulness of man so they no longer need to respond to the gospel. Many make up their own gospel and clothe themselves in their own righteousness. Then they set about to proclaim to the world their merits in opposition to the merits of Gods grace.

Vocal advocates and very sincere in their beliefs but very estranged from Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[carl11]

God is not the author of confusion and that salvation by grace through faith and is not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9) is not hard to understand. It’s just hard for works-salvationists to ACCEPT. It’s a shame that human pride will not allow such people to place their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to take hold of Christ through faith.

Are not belief, trust, reliance and faith all a work ? And yet are we not all, everybody liken unto a dead corpse. Example of Lazarus being in the tomb for 4 days and also that if the dried bones in Ezk.

 

[Chester]

I believe most of us would agree that there is a great deal of confusion about salvation, even though God has made it very simple.

The primary reason for all this confusion is the enmity of Satan and his evil angels against God and against humanity. The Devil desires all human being to go to Hell, since he knows it was created for him and his angels.

There is really no need to be confused when we take the total Gospel message and simply believe it. When someone comes along with another gospel, we should ask them a few questions, to which all the answers are "Yes" (according to Scripture):

1. Did Christ die for the sins of the whole world?

2. Does God desire the salvation of all humanity?

3. Are repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ sufficient to be saved?

4. Is water baptism only for believers and is it a command to every Christian?

5. Does baptism signify that the sinner has died to self and sin, and is totally submitted to God?

6. Is eternal life God's gift to the one who believes?

7. Is the Holy Spirit God's gift to the one who believes?

8. Does salvation include the New Birth, which means that the individual is a new creature in Christ?

10. Are believers predestined and elected to be perfected and glorified?

11. Does that mean that Christians must forsake the ways of the world, and walk in the Spirit by faith?

12. Does salvation include justification, sanctification, and glorification, and are Christians kept by the power of God unto the completion of this salvation?

Going back to the original 12 points of the OP: I agree that all 12 points should be answered as "yes", with one caution:

Point #11 - What is meant by the word "must"?

If you mean that if a Christian does not forsake the ways of the world perfectly 100% of the time that he will not make it to heaven, then you have got a problem. If you mean that a Christian must live by the Spirit perfectly all the time or he will not be forgiven, then you have got a problem! (I doubt the OP meant this, but I think the word "must" here can be confusing)

Maybe a better word would be "should" -- but that seems too weak?
Maybe a better word would be "will" -- but that is not really true - there are Christians who don't do these things well . . ?

I don't like must, should, or will here - does someone have a better word to offer?

 

[mailmandan]

Are not belief, trust, reliance and faith all a work ? And yet are we not all, everybody liken unto a dead corpse. Example of Lazarus being in the tomb for 4 days and also that if the dried bones in Ezk.

Faith (belief, trust, reliance) is not just another work in a series of works. Paul makes a careful distinction between faith and works in Ephesians 2:8,9. Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. Not to be confused with multiple acts of obedience/works which follow and are produced “out of” faith. Faith is faith and works are works.

 

[carl11]

Faith (belief, trust, reliance) is not just another work in a series of works. Paul makes a careful distinction between faith and works in Ephesians 2:8,9. Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. Not to be confused with multiple acts of obedience/works which follow and are produced “out of” faith. Faith is faith and works are works.

1Thess. 1:3

Remembering without ceasing your work of faith,and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

 

[shrume]

1Thess. 1:3

Remembering without ceasing your work of faith,and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

It's a genitive of origin, and should be understood as "work resulting from faith".

The NIV has:

1 Thes 1:
3) We continually remember before our God and Father your work produced by faith, your labor prompted by love, and your endurance inspired by hope in our Lord Jesus Christ.

Faith is not a work.