Why the "NT-only, grace-only" theology is off the mark

[WomanLovesTX]

If Jesus is God and we obey Him, or we not then obeying God?

If Jesus is the Lawgiver and we follow Him, are we not then obedient to the Law?

My point in the post you replied to was that we can only be under one shepherd who will lead us to the Promised Land.

Obedience is not to the dos and don'ts done with the flesh, it is to the One who says that same moral Law from God.

It seems to me that Jesus, God in the flesh, is pleased with those who hearken to Him when it comes to His moral Law, and as it pertains to the rest of your list, the Holy Spirit inspired Scripture where it says that we are to keep holy days and food laws according to our conscious, tells us that those of us who are like you, do so out of a good conscious and love towards God. So, if your conscious tells you to do such as you listed, then you should do them. But understand, other people have a different conscious than yours or mine and may not be inclined to keep holy days or food laws. But, to insist that they must do what your conscious has concluded to be right, is to place them back under obligation from what they have been freed from.

Yes, The WHOLE Bible is relevant in all our lives and the Christian walk. As Redtent mentioned, how else can we test a spirit if we do not know what God has said.

If grace and what it pertains to with Jesus is your fallback to having disobeyed the Torah (the whole Law as it was set up to be followed by the Hebrews), then isn't the Covenant from Jesus' house nothing more than an escape goat? And what about where it teaches that the Law only leads to death, but Jesus came to lead to life? If you are under the Law, where else can you go but to Hades to await a Messiah?

It wasn't that the Law was death, it was the Law of Sin and Death, that penalty we earned for not keeping the law earned us the wage of Death. Through Christ, we can die to the flesh, have His covenant written on our hearts, and be spirit filled to give us the power and desire to obey. Obeying is not the problem. It was and still is a matter of disobedience to the Commandments and in the flesh we were unable to keep the Covenant without the free gift of our sins being wiped off the slate through the washing of the perfect Lamb and His blood.

One who has the Holy Spirit has the power and desire to obey, like good wives. Yeshua's death, means many things, but one thing many do not consider is that in the Torah is a command that unless your spouse dies, you cannot legally remarry. If you remarry while the spouse is still alive, then you have committed adultery.

God married and divorced His people because of "spiritual adultery". Through Yeshua being God in the flesh, and dying we are now free to also die in Him and raise up to a newness of life in Yeshua. We (Israelites) are now free to be the bride of Yeshua.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[cfultz3]

It wasn't that the Law was death, it was the Law of Sin and Death, that penalty we earned for not keeping the law earned us the wage of Death. Through Christ, we can die to the flesh, have His covenant written on our hearts, and be spirit filled to give us the power and desire to obey. Obeying is not the problem. It was and still is a matter of disobedience to the Commandments and in the flesh we were unable to keep the Covenant without the free gift of our sins being wiped off the slate through the washing of the perfect Lamb and His blood.

One who has the Holy Spirit has the power and desire to obey, like good wives. Yeshua's death, means many things, but one thing many do not consider is that in the Torah is a command that unless your spouse dies, you cannot legally remarry. If you remarry while the spouse is still alive, then you have committed adultery.

God married and divorced His people because of "spiritual adultery". Through Yeshua being God in the flesh, and dying we are now free to also die in Him and raise up to a newness of life in Yeshua. We (Israelites) are now free to be the bride of Yeshua.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

After reading this, may I ask you what we are debating? I mean, you imply above that we are to die to the flesh (the Law) and become alive to our new groom (Jesus). From this, if we are dead to our old husband, then we are no longer bounded to him and the method he used to walk us on.

 

[cfultz3]

Absolutely, we are to die to the flesh. Do you realize that Jesus commanded us to do all of that Mosaic law?

Mat 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

When one sat in Moses' seat, he was literally reading only from the scroll of the Torah or other writings (we call OT). Jesus was telling us to do Torah!! The scribes and the Pharisees could not add commentary while seated in Moses' seat.

But, if we do the Torah, then we have to sacrifice for sin offering, we have to go to a high priest and not to the High Priest.

Perhaps, if you define what you mean by Torah, a lot of misunderstanding can be getting rid of. Do you mean by Torah: the moral laws, concepts, percepts, minus those things which Christ fulfilled through Himself? If you are talking about: do not kill, do not murder, the beginning of wisdom is the fear of the LORD, then this all is spoken to us through Jesus, the original Lawgiver.

 

[cfultz3]

But, if we do the Torah, then we have to sacrifice for sin offering, we have to go to a high priest and not to the High Priest.

Perhaps, if you define what you mean by Torah, a lot of misunderstanding can be getting rid of. Do you mean by Torah: the moral laws, concepts, percepts, minus those things which Christ fulfilled through Himself? If you are talking about: do not kill, do not murder, the beginning of wisdom is the fear of the LORD, then this all is spoken to us through Jesus, the original Lawgiver.

Addition: as a wife, we follow the husband on his path......

 

[WomanLovesTX]

But, if we do the Torah, then we have to sacrifice for sin offering, we have to go to a high priest and not to the High Priest.

Perhaps, if you define what you mean by Torah, a lot of misunderstanding can be getting rid of. Do you mean by Torah: the moral laws, concepts, percepts, minus those things which Christ fulfilled through Himself? If you are talking about: do not kill, do not murder, the beginning of wisdom is the fear of the LORD, then this all is spoken to us through Jesus, the original Lawgiver.

Please remember that the Second Temple had an empty Holy of Holies. Once a year, the Levitical (earthly) High Priest was to enter in on the Day of Atonement and sprinkle blood on the Mercy Seat. That duty, as prescribed in Torah, could no longer be applied. Remember, this is the same Temple of Yeshua' s time on earth. What this means to me, by Yeshua' s perfect example is that we do all that pertains to us. Some of Torah was instructions to farmers, to females, to lepers, to the priests, etc. Yeshua could not have kept all of Torah, but He did those things that He could do. And that is what we should do. Yeshua did not do it for salvation neither can we. But just because some of Torah instructions do not apply, don't throw the baby out with the filthy bath water.

Now, no worry about not having a temple or earthly priest, do what the Holy Spirit guides you to obey. Learn to understand God's character through His Instructions. And most definitely Yeshua is our High Priest and all that entails.

 

[WomanLovesTX]

Addition: as a wife, we follow the husband on his path......

And following thru with that, what do you think Yeshua meant in this saying?

[h=3]Matthew 23:1-3[/h]King James Version (KJV)

23 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

 

[4enlightment]

Luke 2:30
For my eyes have seen your salvation,

John 1:18
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

John 9:37
Jesus said, “You have now seen him; in fact, he is the one speaking with you.”

John 14:9
Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

John 3:12
I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?

Romans 6:19
I am using an example from everyday life because of your human limitations. Just as you used to offer yourselves as slaves to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer yourselves as slaves to righteousness leading to holiness.

John 3:34
For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.

1 Corinthians 15:40
There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another.

Matthew 16:11
How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread? But be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”

Mark 4:13
Then Jesus said to them, “Don’t you understand this parable? How then will you understand any parable?

John 3:3
Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

 

[cfultz3]

And following thru with that, what do you think Yeshua meant in this saying?

[h=3]Matthew 23:1-3[/h]King James Version (KJV)

23 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

What He is saying is that the moral Law, the proverbial law, and the conceptual law of God is to be followed, minus those laws which Christ fulfilled (sacrifice, priesthood, temple, etc...). I am sure we all agree that there is One perpetual and appeasing sacrifice and High Priest found in Christ. And I am sure that we all agree that we are now the temple of God. When it comes to these things, no one will have an argument from me.

But now, do we observe those things physically for our righteousness or do we observe those things because that is what our Spiritual Teacher teaches us? That is, do we say that the Law says to do this and by which, I stand righteously before God or do we say that Jesus says to do this and by which, we produce fruits in conjunction with the Spirit, not for our righteousness, but for deeds which will pass through the Fire of testing?

So, the only remaining question is: do we follow that same Lawgiver physically or spiritually? It is said that we are to die to our flesh. If I die to my flesh, then I become alive to my spirit and by His Spirit, I am led by that same Lawgiver who gave the Law in the first place. So, in conclusion, I do not observe the Law physically, but spiritually.

Where the Law says do not cheat, steal, lie, etc..., I do not try to fulfill it through my weak flesh, but with my rebirth, I hearken unto the LORD with my strengthened spirit. Either way, God's Law, which is summarized as love, is to be followed, but the method has been changed.

Therefore, we are in agreement that God's will is to be followed, Just as Jesus followed it even unto death. But, if I follow it by the Law and not by the Lawgiver, then I am no longer under the spiritual Covenant Jesus brought forth through God's last Message, but remain bound to the husband I was to be divorced from and would be classified as adulterous.

Do we follow Moses or Jesus? If I follow Moses, then Christ is no prevail to me, and I remain in that which He came to deliver me from, a certain adverse sentencing which awaits all those who place themselves under the physical Moses as a shepherd, as oppose to the spiritual "Moses (one who leads)" we know as a Son.

 

[cfultz3]

Please remember that the Second Temple had an empty Holy of Holies. Once a year, the Levitical (earthly) High Priest was to enter in on the Day of Atonement and sprinkle blood on the Mercy Seat. That duty, as prescribed in Torah, could no longer be applied. Remember, this is the same Temple of Yeshua' s time on earth. What this means to me, by Yeshua' s perfect example is that we do all that pertains to us. Some of Torah was instructions to farmers, to females, to lepers, to the priests, etc. Yeshua could not have kept all of Torah, but He did those things that He could do. And that is what we should do. Yeshua did not do it for salvation neither can we. But just because some of Torah instructions do not apply, don't throw the baby out with the filthy bath water.

Now, no worry about not having a temple or earthly priest, do what the Holy Spirit guides you to obey. Learn to understand God's character through His Instructions. And most definitely Yeshua is our High Priest and all that entails.

If you do it for the Love of God and out of a good conscious towards Him, then by all means, continue.

As for me and most others, finding someone who would say that we can live lawlessly (without God's laws) is about as rare as finding a cucumber in a jar of pickles NT-Believers agree that we are to obey the Lord, but very few will agree that we are to live by the Law, although God's will is the Law. Do you see what I am saying?

It is a Covenant to follow the Lawgiver and it is another Covenant to follow the Law. It is all about physical verses spiritual. NT-Believers know they cannot do it physically, so spiritually we would say: obey God upon His path He is leading you on if you want to make it to the Promised Land. Do you see the distinction I am making?

 

[p_rehbein]

"WORKS" THEOLOGISTS IDEOLOGY"

 

[Angela53510]

"For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law." Romans 3:28

 

[4enlightment]

1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.

5 “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7 they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.

8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. 11 The greatest among you will be your servant. 12 For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.


Jesus is just warning the people, be on there guards at all times about the priests. They'll have you doing things that even they cannot do. Basically they just love to see a person sweat for nothing by having people to hang their dirty laundry out to dry on top of the highest mountain, so that a person will never have found the truth because they are too busy washing the priest dirty underwear. Seating in Moses' chair mean that they are following the Letter of the Laws.

Matthew 16:6
“Be careful,” Jesus said to them. “Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”

 

[RedTent]

But, if we do the Torah, then we have to sacrifice for sin offering, we have to go to a high priest and not to the High Priest.

Perhaps, if you define what you mean by Torah, a lot of misunderstanding can be getting rid of. Do you mean by Torah: the moral laws, concepts, percepts, minus those things which Christ fulfilled through Himself? If you are talking about: do not kill, do not murder, the beginning of wisdom is the fear of the LORD, then this all is spoken to us through Jesus, the original Lawgiver.

If we do the Torah (first five books of the bible) we will use Christ's blood for sin offering, the principles will be the same, the blood will have changed and by following scripture we would know to use Christ. We would go to the high priest, and by following scripture we would know who that high priest is now, but we would go to the high priest.

 

[weakness]

Just as with King David and Bathsheba sin is not without consequences. David was worthy of death according to the law yet he found grace in Gods eyes. David was worthy of death when he ordered the death of her husband yet again God was merciful. David was secure in his salvation even though he sinned. Clearly David broke the law, Gods law. Please notice that David's transgression was not without consequences, yes terrible consequences.

Here's where we look at the NT believer and warn that while sin cannot reverse the salvation Christ gives, the believer is not immune to the consequences of his or her sin. If you want terrible tribulation and affliction in your life or the lives of those around you go ahead and sin openly and often. You will reap a whirlwind of trouble as a consequence of your disobedience to God.

If you do not want to believe me go over to the Family Forum and read about the effects of transgressing the marriage vows. If you have any heart at all you ought to weep for the pain and misery many there are going through. There are always consequences for sin. To the believer sin no more has power to condemn but it will surely bring affliction and misery. Mark it down God is holy and pure so we ought to be holy and pure as well.

For the cause of Christ
Roger[/QUOTE There is consequence of sin. However to mistake bearing the sins of others and bearing your own because of transgressions is something not to be confused. Paul said what is it if a man suffers for his own deeds ,but if a man suffers being wrongly accused or for loves sake , this man is blessed , and is bearing the true marks of the cross and Jesus. take Job for an example He suffered because God chose him to be a witness to the powers of darkness,He did not suffer for his own sins, which his " friends" got so wrong and kept persecuting Job as if he was suffering for his own self righteousness Job is a picture of Christ and the Church. Job 42: 8 Therefore take now seven bullocks and seven rams and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering, and my servant Job will pray for you: for him will I accept: least I deal with you after your folly, in that you have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job.

 

[RedTent]

"For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law." Romans 3:28

Any time anyone wants to condemn the law, this truth about what it can not do it brought out, but when this part of the law is told, I have never seen scriptures added about the blessings of the law. There are other things in the bible about what the law cannot do, you could list them, too.

By the way, the law can't pay our bills, either. How about listing that? But that is being sarcastic and I hate sarcasm. But I can't resist.

 

[weakness]

It wasn't that the Law was death, it was the Law of Sin and Death, that penalty we earned for not keeping the law earned us the wage of Death. Through Christ, we can die to the flesh, have His covenant written on our hearts, and be spirit filled to give us the power and desire to obey. Obeying is not the problem. It was and still is a matter of disobedience to the Commandments and in the flesh we were unable to keep the Covenant without the free gift of our sins being wiped off the slate through the washing of the perfect Lamb and His blood.

One who has the Holy Spirit has the power and desire to obey, like good wives. Yeshua's death, means many things, but one thing many do not consider is that in the Torah is a command that unless your spouse dies, you cannot legally remarry. If you remarry while the spouse is still alive, then you have committed adultery.

God married and divorced His people because of "spiritual adultery". Through Yeshua being God in the flesh, and dying we are now free to also die in Him and raise up to a newness of life in Yeshua. We (Israelites) are now free to be the bride of Yeshua.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.[/QUOTE You say the penalty we earned by not keeping the law was death. I disagree. Paul said death reigned from Adam to Moses even though there was no law. Every man is tempted by his own lust and enticed , and when lust has conceived it brings forth sin , and sin when it is finished bring forth death.The law was to shew us our sin. For we had not know adultery except the law said thou shall not commit adultery.The law was to make sin exceedingly sinful and leave all without excuse.As it is said there is non righteous, no not one. Kind of like the strong delusion spoken of in 2 Thes. that they should believe a lie THAT They all might be damned who believed not the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. I still don't get why it is so hard to see that the old and the new testament work together towards the same salvation which one God ,in his wisdom has chosen as his plan to put his light where all can see, and not under a bushel.

 

[p_rehbein]

Any time anyone wants to condemn the law, this truth about what it can not do it brought out, but when this part of the law is told, I have never seen scriptures added about the blessings of the law. There are other things in the bible about what the law cannot do, you could list them, too.

By the way, the law can't pay our bills, either. How about listing that? But that is being sarcastic and I hate sarcasm. But I can't resist.

The problem with this thread is the idea suggested in it's title.....

"NT-only, grace only"

I wouldn't think anyone denies the value of the entire Word of God...............but there are surely those who believe their "good works" will save them.........so, it's the title that causes the confusion.

 

[weakness]

If we do the Torah (first five books of the bible) we will use Christ's blood for sin offering, the principles will be the same, the blood will have changed and by following scripture we would know to use Christ. We would go to the high priest, and by following scripture we would know who that high priest is now, but we would go to the high priest.[/QUOTE I agree but just wanted to mention that we, as Gods children ,the church are also called to the cross.Romans says that we should present OUR bodies a living sacrifice also holy and exceptionable to God ,which is our reasonable service We are to bear the cross and lay down are lives and be like our father .

 

[WomanLovesTX]

Repeat of OP.

Isaiah 29: 13 Then Adonai said: "Because these people approach me with empty words, and the honor they bestow on me is mere lip-service; while in fact they have distanced their hearts from me, and their 'fear of me' is just a mitzvah of human origin 14 therefore, I will have to keep shocking these people with astounding and amazing things, until the 'wisdom' of their 'wise ones' vanishes, and the 'discernment' of their 'discerning ones' is hidden away."

Mainstream Christian believers insists "Jesus" preached the Gospel - the Good News about the Messiah's death, burial, and resurrection - which is all Christians tend to focus on. But Scripture, read in context, reveals He did NOT preach those things at all; rather, He preached the Kingdom of YHWH (Yahweh)!

Luke 4: 43 "But he (Yeshua/Jesus) said, "I must preach the good news of the Kingdom of God to the other towns also, because that is why I was sent."

Luke 8: 1. And it happened after these things that Y'shua was going around in the cities and in the villages and was preaching and declaring the Kingdom of Elohim.

Acts 28: 23 "From morning till evening the Apostle Paul explained and declared the Kingdom of God and tried to convince people about Yeshua from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets."

Acts 24: 14. But this indeed I (Paul) acknowledge, that in that same doctrine of which they speak, I do serve the Elohim of my fathers, believing all the things written in Torah and in the prophets.

So, while His death, burial, and resurrection are an important part of the Good News, it's not the whole story! God isn't just in the business of "saving" people. As Creator and law giver, He is in the business of teaching us how to be good subjects in His Kingdom to come! If "Jesus abolished Torah at the cross" then why was EVERY believer completely Torah observant for one hundred years afterYeshua's death, including the Apostle Paul who was "caught" being Torah observant 29 years afterYeshua's death (Acts 21:23-24)! Was Paul a hypocrite, saying one thing and doing another; or were his teachings, perhaps, misunderstood?

YHWH said HE would send a prophet who was to do everything He ordered him to do:

Deuteronomy 18: 15 "ADONAI will raise up for you a prophet like me from among yourselves, from your own kinsmen. You are to pay attention to him, 16 just as when you were assembled at Horev and requested ADONAI your God, 'Don't let me hear the voice of ADONAI my God any more, or let me see this great fire ever again; if I do, I will die!' 17 On that occasion ADONAI said to me, 'They are right in what they are saying. 18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their kinsmen. I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I order him.

Yeshua Himself said He came to do HIS FATHER's will; not His own!

John 6: 35. Y'shua said to them, I am the Bread of Life. Whoever comes to me will not hunger. And whoever believes in me will not ever thirst. 36. But I have said to you that you have seen me, and you do not believe. 37. All who my Father has given to me will come, and whoever comes not to me I will cast outside! 38. For I came down from heaven, not to do my will, but to do the will of Him who sent me. 39. And this is His will, that of Him who sent me, that all that He has given to me I do not lose even one. 40. For this is the will of my Father, that all who see the Son and believe in Him, will have life that is eternal. And I will raise him up on the last day. (Aramaic English New Testament)

Yeshua came to proclaim the Kingdom of YHWH and to do everything His Father commanded. He tore down the fences of man's legalism. Neither He nor His Apostles ever advocated against Torah!

John 12: 44. But Y'shua cried out and said, He who believes in me, it is not in me he does believe, but in Him who sent me. 45. And he who sees me sees Him who sent me! 46. I have come as the light into this world that all who believe in me might not remain in the darkness! 47. And he who hears my words, yet does not keep them, I do not judge him, for I have not come to judge the world but to give life to the world. 48. He who rejects me and does not receive my words, there is something that judges him. The word that I have spoken, it will judge him on the last day. 49. For I have not spoken from my soul, but the Father who sent me. He gave a Commandment to me what I should say and what I should speak. 50. And I know that His commands are eternal life. Therefore, these things that I speak just as my Father told me, thus I speak. (Aramaic English New Testament)

Yeshua was sent by the Father NOT to do His own will, but the Father's! So many seem to think He came to replace the Father and abolish Torah....Yet He came to restore man's relationship with YHWH and remind us to totally rely on YHWH for everything.

Christian claims that, in order to "be saved" one has to do nothing besides "believe in Jesus." While this is true to a certain extent because Yeshua was the Final SIN Sacrifice, there is more to "having a personal relationship with God" - a whole new world, as a matter of fact! Yeshua (YHWH-Come-in-the-Flesh) even said He did not come to replace His Father or to abolish His Father's Divine Instructions (Torah - without which mankind would have no blueprint for moral, holy living (1 John 3:4)!).

And think about this: If you abolish Torah, you have to abolish the Ten Commandments right along with it. You can't pick and choose what parts of Torah are still valid - especially since YHWH gave us several "forever" commands above and beyond "the Ten Commandments"! But yet, Christianity - borne out of Catholicism and NOT the original teachings of Messiah - insists that "Jesus came to do away with the law" and they've decided the "forever" commands don't pertain to them. Somehow, they cannot seem to understand that Yeshua came to proclaim the Kingdom of YHWH and then to martyr Himself so that we could have everlasting life with YHWH (see also John 17:1-3).

1 John 2:3-6: The way we can be sure we know Him is if we are obeying His commands. Anyone who says, "I know Him," but isn't obeying His commands is a liar - the truth is not in him. But if someone keeps doing what he says, then truly love for God has been brought to its goal in him. This is how we are sure that we are united with Him. A person who claims to be continuing in union with Him ought to conduct his life the way He did.

So, how did Yeshua conduct His life? By obeying and carrying out His Father's Divine Instructions/Commands! Yeshua was completely Torah observant, as were all of His apostles and disciples throughout the entire First Century....so what makes Christians think THEY don't have to be? How did Yeshua's death on the stake negate His Father's Divine Instructions? How did YHWH's Divine Instructions get to be a "curse"? That doesn't even make sense!

That, in itself, reveals there must be more to God and the Bible than just "believing in Jesus" and it's way past time for mankind to realize this. We are in the end times as outlined in the Books of Daniel and Revelation, and it won't be much longer before Yeshua's return. Those who have chosen to ignore God's Torah are NOT worshiping the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and will be very surprised to discover they were "left behind" on that fateful day because they were guilty of being "lukewarm." Many of our Christian brethren have already realized this and opted to leave the "milk" of the church in order to pursue a true relationship with their Creator because they've finally understood that Yeshua said He did NOT come to abolish or negate His Father's Commands:

Matthew 5: 17 Don't think that I have come to abolish the Torah or the Prophets. I have come not to abolish but to complete. 18 Yes indeed! I tell you that until heaven and earth pass away, not so much as a yud or a stroke will pass from the Torah - not until everything that must happen has happened. 19 Sowhoever disobeys the least of these mitzvot (words/commands) and teaches others to do so will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But whoever obeys them and so teaches will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness is far greater than that of the Torah-teachers and P'rushim, you will certainly not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

Has everything happened that must happen? Have heaven and Earth passed away yet? Since when does the word "complete" (or "fulfill) mean "abolished"? Why would God abolish His own original divine teachings which He said were to last forever? Did Jesus come to make a liar out of YHWH, God the Father?

Here's the thing: The "Old Testament" is God's Word; The "New Testament" is about God's Word. One can be "saved" by believing in the Messiah (the "arm of YHWH"), but one cannot possibly understand God until one is firmly rooted in Torah.

Isaiah 53: 1 Who believes our report? To whom is the arm of ADONAI revealed?

Please read the following very carefully: Yeshua (His given Hebrew Name which means, "Yahweh is Salvation" while "Jesus" means nothing in particular), was a Torah observant Jew who kept all the Biblical Feasts and the seventh day Sabbath. Contrary to popular belief, He was not born on December 25th; He was born on the first day of Sukkot (Feast of Tabernacles) which always falls in the September/October time frame on our Gregorian calendars. His exact date of death according to the Bible was Nisan 14 - Passover - and He rose three days later on Saturday evening, not on a Sunday. God gave us seven Biblical Feasts which He said believers were to keep forever, and Yeshua has so far only fulfilled the first four....and yet Christians as a whole have chosen to ignore them and instead, celebrate their man-made "holy days" of Christmas and Easter - both of which are steeped in paganism.

When God made His New Covenant with the Houses of Israel and Judah (Jeremiah 31:32), He never mentioned that it was to somehow abolish His Divine Instructions (Torah)...And, contrary to popular belief Yeshua, who was Himself Torah observant, never said He came to abolish the Torah; He came to abolish man-made doctrines, the rabbinical ideology which had distorted (and is still distorting) the Word of God!

When Yeshua returns, He will be teaching GOD'S WORD which was revealed through Torah (the first five Books) and once again personally demonstrating how much off the mark man's opinions are - and thus He will be abolishing Christian traditions and the opinions and ideologies of your respective pastors who are just as off the mark as many of the rabbis of old who had added to and/or taken away from the Word and turned YHWH's commands into a burden....

Many protest that this was "just for the Jews," but we would ask you to please think about this: Where did God ever say He was going to treat His adopted children any different from His natural ones? Torah is our only blueprint for moral, holy and godly living! The ONLY thing Yeshua "nailed to the cross" was the requirement to kill an innocent animal to atone for our sins, and that in no way negates the need for Torah! God Himself said that anyone who wants to follow the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is to be Torah observant:

Numbers 15: 13 "'Everyone who is native-born must do these things in this way when he brings an offering made by fire as an aroma pleasing to the LORD. 14 For the generations to come, whenever an alien or anyone else living among you presents an offering made by fire as an aroma pleasing to the LORD, he must do exactly as you do. 15 The community is to have the same rules for you and for the alien living among you; this is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. You and the alien shall be the same before the LORD: 16 The same laws and regulations will apply both to you and to the alien living among you.'"

Please re-read the above in case you missed it: Any Torah-less non-Jew/Hebrew/Israelite who does not yet believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is an "alien"/foreigner. However, if they do wish to accept Him, then they are to do exactly as those who are already belong to Him!

"Living among" means not necessarily physically, but rather, it refers to all those who have accepted the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. They MUST be Torah observant, just like the Houses of Israel and Judah were with whom God made His New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:32)!

Romans 10: 12. And in this, it discriminates neither Jews nor Gentiles. For there is one, Master YHWH, over them all, who is abundantly generous towards every one that calls on him. 13. For everyone that will call on the name of Master YHWH, will have life.

It is important to understand that YHWH did NOT make His New Covenant with the Gentiles; He made it with those who were obedient to His divine Instructions (Jeremiah 31:32)! Same God, same rules for both the "natural" and the grafted-in" children....

This does not mean that Torah observance will "save" you, because the ONLY thing that gets you into heaven is belief on the shed blood of Christ! But that in no way negates our need to obey God's rules. If you wish to have a REAL relationship with YHWH, then you MUST obey His "forever" commands, because they are our only blueprint to moral, holy living. But once you have the Holy Spirit, you willwant to please God - and pleasing Him means obeying His Torah which will keep you from sinning! (Remember - sin is the transgression of the Law/Torah - 1 John 3:4)!) Doesn't that make more sense than making up your own rules about a Savior who never once heard the name of "Jesus" during His entire lifetime on Earth?

Jeremiah 31:32 tells us that Yahweh made His "new covenant" not with the Torah-less Gentiles, but with the House of Israel and with the House of Judah; He did, however, extend His grace and mercy to the Gentiles who, once they become believers in Yeshua, automatically become part of "Israel"!

And God told Israel: "I give you good instruction: Do not forsake my Torah" (Proverbs 4:2).

And Paul reiterated this when he said: Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law. (Romans 3:31) Paul also wrote in Acts 21 - a full 29 years after the death of Yeshua:

Acts 21: 25. As to those of the Gentiles who have believed, we have written, that they should keep themselves from (an idol’s) sacrifice, and from sexual sin, and from what is strangled, and from blood.” 26. Then Paul took those men, on the following day, and was purified with them; and he entered and went into the temple, explaining to them how to complete the days of the purification, up to the presentation of the offering by each of them.

This event clearly establishes Rav Shaul as a Torah observant Jew; however, most mainstream Christians twist Paul into being a man pleaser – as though his offering was solely to please Jews, as some sort of political posturing. There is no conflict between atonement made by Yeshua’s blood and the giving of offerings in the Temple. Paul walks in the footsteps of Y’shua, King David, and all the Yisrael of Elohim, when he declares "I rejoice in the Torah of Elohim, in the inner man." (Romans 7:22.) Each and every blood sacrifice and offering made in the Temple points to Mashiyach’s perfect blood. The Temple stood until 70 AD. The followers of Y’shua met daily in the Temple and gave offerings unto YHWH, but they also knew atonement was accomplished through the precious blood of Y’shua....

Paul wrote:

Romans 7: 7 Therefore, what are we to say? That the Torah is sinful? Heaven forbid! Rather, the function of the Torah was that without it, I would not have known what sin is. For example, I would not have become conscious of what greed is if the Torah had not said, "Thou shalt not covet."

Romans 7: 12 So the Torah is holy; that is, the commandment is holy, just and good.

Paul also said that YHWH’s law is spiritual (Romans 7:14) - and that which is spiritual is eternal.

2 Corinthians 4: 18 We concentrate not on what is seen but on what is not seen, since things seen are temporary, but things not seen are eternal.

So, the question once more is: Why would Yeshua’s death have abolished Torah? Those who teach contrary to the Torah, which both Yeshua and Paul upheld, are false preachers and prophets; nothing more, nothing less. Paul wrote:

2 Corinthians 11: 13 The fact is that such men are pseudo-emissaries: they tell lies about their work and masquerade as emissaries of the Messiah. 14 There is nothing surprising in that, for the Adversary himself masquerades as an angel of light; 15 so it’s no great thing if his workers masquerade as servants of righteousness. They will meet the end their deeds deserve.

Micah 6: 8 Human being, you have already been told what is good, what ADONAI demands of you - no more than to act justly, love grace and walk in purity with your God.

How do you walk in purity with God unless you are OBEYING Him?

Bottom line: We are on the same side! So, let's work together, for God's sake!

(edited and quotes from http://therefinersfire.org/proclaiming_torah.htm)

 

[Keren]

Understanding the Law

Paul suddenly stops the flow of his argument and asks a question: What, then, was the purpose of the law? (v. 19). This question reflects Paul's awareness that his argument so far would lead his readers to wonder whether he has denied any purpose to the law. If the inheritance of the promised blessing does not depend on the law, as Paul has just declared (v. 18), then why was the law given by God? Paul's answer is important for us as we wrestle with similar questions regarding the application of the Mosaic law. How should Christians relate to the Mosaic law today?

Moses, the mediator of the law, brought in a law that divided Jews from Gentiles; therefore he was not the mediator of "the one," the one new community promised to Abraham (v. 8) and found in Christ (v. 28). Christ, not Moses, is the mediator of the unity of all believers in Christ--Jew and Greek, slave and free, male and female.

Romans 3
19Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.