Why the "NT-only, grace-only" theology is off the mark

[Keren]

We do not trash the Law. We see the Law is all it's glory and as the highest bar that God has set for man. God Himself not only said no one reaches that that standard, He sent His only Son to measure up to that standard, and to bear the curses of not measuring up to that standard. Anyone who claims they are righteous in any way according to the Law God gave to show how unrighteous man is, and especially after He gave His Son, then gave the Spirit to those who would BELIEVE

does not believe what God has said about them, and does not believe what God has said about His Son and does not have any understanding at all about how Holy God is.
shame on all of you who use the Law which was added because of transgressions, to show us how fall we fall short, to build yourself up in some way nearing the righteousness of the Son of God who was with God in the beginning and is God.
The Law is finished. the Law and the prophets were until John. Now we see Jesus. the jewel and fulfillment of everything God gave to man. Including The Law. Not one of you will be found righteous in God's sight according to any portions of any Law.
Your righteousness will be found granted or declared or imputed to by God Himself by your faith in His own testimony about how He alone has reconciled fallen man to Himself.

Jesus is His Name.

 

[Keren]

The Law condemns you, even as you claim you are righteous by it.
This is about God loving mankind enough to humble Himself and come from Glory to do for us what not one of us could do for ourselves. And I hear the crying, but now you say we can go and sin. You are already filling up wrath for yourself by by elevating the Law God Himself gave to show you how sinful you are, over His own Son who came to do according to Law what you can NEVER do. there is a curse for this. Give thanks to God that the Covenant that held up curses for any disobedience was fulfilled and carried in the very Body God prepared for Jesus. See Jesus! And see the Plan of God. It is all Mercy and all Grace and all more than we can ever so. No one can save themselves nor keep themselves saved.
There is no Law, there is no curse, there is the Spirit who teaches in LOVE who is Jesus. And in what WAY God loved this sinful world. Not the Law. Jesus Christ on a Cross!

 

[Karraster]

I guess I missed the posts where anyone said they were "righteous" by the law only.

 

[Keren]

I guess I missed the posts where anyone said they were "righteous" by the law only.

no one is righteous by the Law.
what only?
the righteousness God accepts is His own Son's work in living up to Law.
You are not righteous at all.
You are saved by God's grace through faith in the only one who GOD SAID is Righteous.
You have no righteousness at all. Nothing to commend to an Holy God who will not abide even one sin. If I am wrong, please tell me what good is in you that God should accept you.

I have seen a terrible thing. People trying to say the Old Covenant is alive and well. That Jesus improved it. Or that it is some ongoing Covenant.
This is not God's way. This is righteousness by Law and that will condemn you.

 

[Keren]

I guess I missed the posts where anyone said they were "righteous" by the law only.

Where are the posts that say people are righteous in ANY way by the Law brought in because of transgressions. I have seen them. This is a terrible lie. The Law was brought in to show you how terribly sinful you are.
until John. Who called for straight paths to be made for the Lord, the King. That Lord who was with God in the Beginning and was God. Who humbled Himself to be made like unto His brothers (the likeness of sinful flesh but without sin), the children who always feared death, that they knew was the result of sin. He bore all our sins in His own body on a Cross and He died. But God raised Him up and seated Him far above every name, including Moses. Jesus Christ is the only way to God. And this is not through the Law from the Mountain.

 

[Karraster]

[SUP]referring to denying Messiah
36 [/SUP]Moreover, I tell you this: on the Day of Judgment people will have to give account for every careless word they have spoken; [SUP]37 [/SUP]for by your own words you will be acquitted, and by your own words you will be condemned.”

referring to His deciples. did they follow the law? yes they did. the new testament was not written at this time.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]He was still speaking to the crowd when his mother and brothers appeared outside, asking to talk with him. [SUP]47 [/SUP][SUP][d][/SUP] [SUP]48 [/SUP]But to the one who had informed him he replied, “Who is my mother? Who are my brothers?” [SUP]49 [/SUP]Pointing to his talmidim, he said, “Look! Here are my mother and my brothers! [SUP]50 [/SUP]Whoever does what my Father in heaven wants, that person is my brother and sister and mother.”

[h=1]Who or What is a Talmidim?[/h] Talmid is a Hebrew word (masculine) that means disciple. Talmidim is the plural – disciples. To be a talmid or talmidah is a strong statement. It means you are devoted to Yeshua (Jesus), fixated on learning scriptures, putting them into action, and to become like Him. A disciple is someone who is on the path to becoming like Jesus by the grace of God through the power of the Holy Spirit. As the disciple becomes more like Jesus, they find their identity in Jesus and image Him by worshiping God with all their lives, living in gospel community with other disciples, and going on mission to make more disciples of Jesus.

 

[danschance]

This post is in response to the original post. I would of quoted it but it was too long to post it and my post. Please refer to: http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/83286-why-nt-only-grace-only-theology-off-mark.html

1) I find the term in the tile "NT-only" to be offensive and here is why.
I do not know any NT only Christians. I have never head of any either and it certainly does not represent to vast majority of Christians. It is also straw man argument.

2)"Grace-only theology is off the mark" is also offensive.
The bible defines grace as being unmerited or undeserved favor in respect to salvation. Christians do believe this and it is taught in scripture. Yet WomanLovesTX claims Grace is not enough.

3) WomanLovesTX implies Christians think the Torah is abolished.
By "Torah" I assume she means the Mosaic laws as the Torah is the first 5 books of the OT. Jesus came to fulfill the law not abolish it. This means the ceremonial laws are fulfilled. Circumcision of the foreskin now is circumcision of the heart. Some Mosaic laws have been fulfilled and others are still in the future.

By stating that Christians think the law is abolished it is a straw man argument. A straw man (Aunt Sally in the UK) is an argument based on misrepresenting the opponents view point(s) to easily defeat him or "knock down the straw man easily". Below is another example of her use of a straw man argument. lets see if you can see it:

Yeshua was sent by the Father NOT to do His own will, but the Father's! So many seem to think He came to replace the Father and abolish Torah....Yet He came to restore man's relationship with YHWH and remind us to totally rely on YHWH for everything.

Did you find it? Christians do not think Christ came replace the Father or abolish the Torah.

4) As mentioned above this post is replete with numerous straw man arguments.
Here is another straw man argument she mentions:

So, how did Yeshua conduct His life? By obeying and carrying out His Father's Divine Instructions/Commands! Yeshua was completely Torah observant, as were all of His apostles and disciples throughout the entire First Century....so what makes Christians think THEY don't have to be? How did Yeshua's death on the stake negate His Father's Divine Instructions? How did YHWH's Divine Instructions get to be a "curse"? That doesn't even make sense!

There are 3 straw man arguments. Though I will mention 2 as the third is debate.
1) She claims the disciples and apostles were Torah observant the entire first century. That is false.
2) She rhetorically implies there is no curse associated with the death of Christ. This is false. (see Gal 3:13 and Duet. 21:23

5) WomanLovesTX claims we are to be Torah observant as Paul and the early church was.
Again this is a straw man argument. Claiming Paul was an observant Jew is clearly false as we read:

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, Eph 2:8

This verse claims we are not saved by our own doing if she claims we must observe the Mosaic laws to be saved. Finally, is Paul an observant Jew?

To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. 1 Cor. 9:20

Here Paul states he is willing to be a Jew when he is with Jews but he is not under the law. He is clearly stating he is not a Jew!

6)This is a minor issue but it does bug me. She frequently refers to Christ as Yeshua.
This is common in the Hebrew roots movement. They substitute Hebrew names for Greek names such as Yeshua, YHWH, Yehoshua and so on. To me it seems to be pushing an agenda and not relying on the Greek text.

Conclusion
It is my hope to warn others about the dangers of the Hebrew Roots Movement and here is way:

You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.
Gal 5:4

There is not a single warning in the NT about following grace but the verse above is a clear warning to those who are justifying themselves by the law. Many in the Hebrew Roots movement do this in varying degrees. To the wise please understand.

 

[Keren]

[SUP]referring to denying Messiah
36 [/SUP]Moreover, I tell you this: on the Day of Judgment people will have to give account for every careless word they have spoken; [SUP]37 [/SUP]for by your own words you will be acquitted, and by your own words you will be condemned.”

referring to His deciples. did they follow the law? yes they did. the new testament was not written at this time.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]He was still speaking to the crowd when his mother and brothers appeared outside, asking to talk with him. [SUP]47 [/SUP][SUP][d][/SUP] [SUP]48 [/SUP]But to the one who had informed him he replied, “Who is my mother? Who are my brothers?” [SUP]49 [/SUP]Pointing to his talmidim, he said, “Look! Here are my mother and my brothers! [SUP]50 [/SUP]Whoever does what my Father in heaven wants, that person is my brother and sister and mother.”

Who or What is a Talmidim?

Talmid is a Hebrew word (masculine) that means disciple. Talmidim is the plural – disciples. To be a talmid or talmidah is a strong statement. It means you are devoted to Yeshua (Jesus), fixated on learning scriptures, putting them into action, and to become like Him. A disciple is someone who is on the path to becoming like Jesus by the grace of God through the power of the Holy Spirit. As the disciple becomes more like Jesus, they find their identity in Jesus and image Him by worshiping God with all their lives, living in gospel community with other disciples, and going on mission to make more disciples of Jesus.

What does God want?
If you say live by Mosiac Law, you have no mediator. Moses is dead.
God want s you to have faith in His Son. I do not listen any more to people who do not even understand the purpose of the Law. If you can not or will not accept this, I will not listen to you.

Faith and Belief

(Genesis 15:1-7; Romans 4:1-12; Hebrews 11:8-19; James 2:14-26)
1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. 5He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
6Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Christ Redeemed Us

(Deuteronomy 21:22-23)
10For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 13Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
The Purpose of the Law

(Romans 7:1-6)
15Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. 16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 17And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. 18For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. 20Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. 21Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Sons Through Faith in Christ
26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[Karraster]

29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.



What does it mean, according to the promise?

forgot to say...listen to me? I didn't write the Bible. I quoted the Bible and added the definition of the word used by Messiah that indicated He pointed to His disciples. I didn't write the definition either, but I know what it means.

 

[Keren]

Conclusion
It is my hope to warn others about the dangers of the Hebrew Roots Movement and here is way:

There is not a single warning in the NT about following grace but the verse above is a clear warning to those who are justifying themselves by the law. Many in the Hebrew Roots movement do this in varying degrees. To the wise please understand.

This is very clear, and is related to the other writings on attack of the Judaizers.
I believe people who think they are righteous by Laws that no longer exists except as witness against them are not believers in Jesus Christ, have not undergone the new birth and have yet to understand anything at all about the New Testament.
Being a New Testament Christian mean being being a New Covenant child of God. The Law only condemns and has no way to save. No way to save. It shut up both jews and gentiles under it, because all are under sin. It shows sin to be exceedingly sinful, and shows that only One could repair this breach and reconcile us to God. To the purpose that all would give Glory to God alone for this great salvation. What a terrible thing I see written here, that people thin they are acceptable to God because of what they do.

 

[Keren]

29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.



What does it mean, according to the promise?

You don't know this? It has nothing to do with the Law that was added because of transgressions.
Nothing except to make the critical need for that promise more clear.

 

[danschance]

This is very clear, and is related to the other writings on attack of the Judaizers.
I believe people who think they are righteous by Laws that no longer exists except as witness against them are not believers in Jesus Christ, have not undergone the new birth and have yet to understand anything at all about the New Testament.
Being a New Testament Christian mean being being a New Covenant child of God. The Law only condemns and has no way to save. No way to save. It shut up both jews and gentiles under it, because all are under sin. It shows sin to be exceedingly sinful, and shows that only One could repair this breach and reconcile us to God. To the purpose that all would give Glory to God alone for this great salvation. What a terrible thing I see written here, that people thin they are acceptable to God because of what they do.

Many fall to the wayside by engaging in things God did not want them to be involved with. It is hard to watch because I know Hell is real and really horrible, far worse than anything we can imagine. The Hebrew Roots movement is very small but as you can see there is a disproportionate amount of them on CC. I believe satan is drawing them here to side track true believers.

All we can do is pray for them and attempt to show them the error of their ways, which is not easy at all.

 

[Karraster]

The Judaizer is a lie on it's face as posted by the OP. Judaism is following all the man made law that was added to the Creator's law, and those pushing circumcision. Anyone following the law of Messiah is not a judaizer. they are obedient. The lawless hates them.

 

[danschance]

The Judaizer is a lie on it's face as posted by the OP. Judaism is following all the man made law that was added to the Creator's law, and those pushing circumcision. Anyone following the law of Messiah is not a judaizer. they are obedient. The lawless hates them.

A Judaizer is one who claims to be a Christian and under the law or a portion of the law. Christ set us free from the law.
Baker's evangelical dictionary states:Those who adopted Jewish religious practices or sought to influence others to do so.
According to Gotquestions.org : A Judiazer taught that, in order for a Christian to truly be right with God, he must conform to the Mosaic Law.

Read more:Who were the Judaizers?

So it is more than just circumcision. I encourage you to read up on how others define the term.

 

[Keren]

Many fall to the wayside by engaging in things God did not want them to be involved with. It is hard to watch because I know Hell is real and really horrible, far worse than anything we can imagine. The Hebrew Roots movement is very small but as you can see there is a disproportionate amount of them on CC. I believe satan is drawing them here to side track true believers.

All we can do is pray for them and attempt to show them the error of their ways, which is not easy at all.

Paul prayed that they would be cursed. I do not wish this on anyone, I am not the apostle who had the Authority of Christ. But we have their warnings.

“I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.” Gal. 2:21

I want to ask all who claim they are righteous in God's sight by the law He added because of transgressions if Christ died needlessly. Did He? Not for me. He died for me because God loved the world and gave His Only Son that whoever believes in Him, and Whoever does what he says will inherit eternal life. He said Love God and love your neighbor. He did not say anything about Moses being greater than He. The Law had a beginning and an end. Jesus yoke is easy and His burden is not a burden. LOVE GOD AND YOUR NEIGHBOR. do not lie to your neighbor.

It was added because of TRANSGRESSIONS. that is not a good starting point. It was added to show the people what sin is. If anyone thinks they are not condemned by that Law I want to know who you are because God said by the Law no one will be declared righteous in His sight. He made another way, that is separate from that condemning Law. And it is all Grace. That is why this thread is a lie and error and self righteousness. And those things will not commend you to God.

 

[Keren]

29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.



What does it mean, according to the promise?

forgot to say...listen to me? I didn't write the Bible. I quoted the Bible and added the definition of the word used by Messiah that indicated He pointed to His disciples. I didn't write the definition either, but I know what it means.

Tell me, what is the promise?
I saw a terrible thing on the thread where there was writing about "Breaking Covenant". Post 271.
if you do not understand what is wrong with that post, and you continue to listen to people who teach this way, you will have nothing to commend you to God. Those people are teaching curses.

 

[danschance]

Paul prayed that they would be cursed. I do not wish this on anyone, I am not the apostle who had the Authority of Christ. But we have their warnings.

“I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.” Gal. 2:21

I want to ask all who claim they are righteous in God's sight by the law He added because of transgressions if Christ died needlessly. Did He? Not for me. He died for me because God loved the world and gave His Only Son that whoever believes in Him, and Whoever does what he says will inherit eternal life. He said Love God and love your neighbor. He did not say anything about Moses being greater than He. The Law had a beginning and an end. Jesus yoke is easy and His burden is not a burden. LOVE GOD AND YOUR NEIGHBOR. do not lie to your neighbor.

It was added because of TRANSGRESSIONS. that is not a good starting point. It was added to show the people what sin is. If anyone thinks they are not condemned by that Law I want to know who you are because God said by the Law no one will be declared righteous in His sight. He made another way, that is separate from that condemning Law. And it is all Grace. That is why this thread is a lie and error and self righteousness. And those things will not commend you to God.

That is a good tactic to use. A friend of mine was being very legalistic he finally changed his ways when he realized that it demeaned the death of Christ.

 

[Keren]

That is a good tactic to use. A friend of mine was being very legalistic he finally changed his ways when he realized that it demeaned the death of Christ.

Legalistic is not a strong enough word for it. If people do not or will not understand why God brought in The Law, and they continue to exalt themselves by the law the greater is their own condemnation. Jesus Christ is God's Plan. Mercy and Grace after he made it CLEAR that all were shut up under sin, that every mouth should be stopped by the Law, they keep on preaching they will be righteous by the very law that condemns them. This is from Satan.

 

[cfultz3]

That is a good tactic to use. A friend of mine was being very legalistic he finally changed his ways when he realized that it demeaned the death of Christ.

If you have a list, will you post it? I would like to read it.

Ones I can think of offhand:

If righteousness can now be obtained through flesh, then there is no need to die to the flesh. Which nullifies Christ's teaching about dying to the flesh.

If one places himself under the Law as a Covenant with God, then Christ is no prevail to him, even His blood, even His death, even His birth.

If one is under the Law, then they must go to Hades to await their Messiah. This, by deduction, means that Christ must die again to deliver them, although it says that He died but once.

P.S. I know the Law is good because it came from God and the very One who spoke it, now speaks that Law to those who follow Him as Jesus Christ (written law: do not steal. The Lawgiver to the saint: love will do no harm to his neighbor. So, do not steal).

 

[Keren]

A Judaizer is one who claims to be a Christian and under the law or a portion of the law. Christ set us free from the law.
Baker's evangelical dictionary states:Those who adopted Jewish religious practices or sought to influence others to do so.
According to Gotquestions.org : A Judiazer taught that, in order for a Christian to truly be right with God, he must conform to the Mosaic Law.

Read more:Who were the Judaizers?

So it is more than just circumcision. I encourage you to read up on how others define the term.

Faith or Works of the Law

3 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?[a]4 Have you experienced[b] so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[c]

7 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. 8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”[d] 9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”[e]11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”[f] 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”[g] 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”[h]14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

The Law and the Promise

15 Brothers and sisters, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case.16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,”[i] meaning one person, who is Christ.17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.

19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator. 20 A mediator, however, implies more than one party; but God is one.

21 Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law.22 But Scripture has locked up everything under the control of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.
Children of God

23 Before the coming of this faith,[j] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

This could not be more clear. People who disparage New Testament Christians do it for a reason - they reject the new Testament, which is the New Covenant. Not the old made better or the Old continuing. It is New. Do not listen to them for they are error and are not yet Christians.