Will faith-healers step out in faith and heal Corona virus victims? I doubt it.

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UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,744
1,928
113
#83
Acts 10:
9 About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11 He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. 13 Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”

14 “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”

15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

16 This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

17 While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon’s house was and stopped at the gate. 18 They called out, asking if Simon who was known as Peter was staying there.

19 While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Simon, three[a] men are looking for you. 20 So get up and go downstairs. Do not hesitate to go with them, for I have sent them.”

21 Peter went down and said to the men, “I’m the one you’re looking for. Why have you come?”

22 The men replied, “We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people. A holy angel told him to ask you to come to his house so that he could hear what you have to say.” 23 Then Peter invited the men into the house to be his guests


The Judaizer will leap to his feet immediately, and say, only Gentiles have been made clean, not animals.

However, the unclean meat laws were actually meant to discourage Israelites from table fellowship with Gentiles, because Gentiles were involved in idolatry and God wanted to hinder their fellowship with Gentiles.

Ephesians 2:13-15 indicates that the Law, in part, held this sort of "separation' commandments which separated Israelites from surrounding Gentiles.

Since this was no longer necessary, due to the inclusion of Gentiles within the Church, neither are the food laws applicable.

And, I know the likely responses I will get in regards to this. God didn't cleanse food but he cleansed Gentiles. Well, if that is true, God is most certainly being misleading here, and providing grounds for deception with regards to food. If it is that big a deal, then God really messed up.

There are other references to the issues of days and diet and their inapplicability in the Scriptures. However, the Judaizer, who wants to separate himself as more pure and holy than others, will continue to insist that days and diet are important to God under the New Covenant.

If anyone has a conscience in this regard, I encourage them to avoid eating, and to meet on whatever day you want. I don't care. But, that isn't where they will leave it. Their full-time occupation is accusing others of being unconverted or less spiritual than them over matters of food and days.

And, that is where I was, as a bottle-sucking, diaper-wearing little Judaizer :)
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,744
1,928
113
#84

Sorry..not sure what this one is about...seems like there's some link but it's broken.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,744
1,928
113
#85
If a person wants to follow science in what they eat that maybe easier then trying to figure out what the Bible says. The Ornish program has been tested and proven to help people recover from Cancer, Heart Disease and other life threatening illness. Of course the problem is people make money selling us food that makes us sick. So there is a lot of deception and people trying to convince you that something is healthy when it is harmful to your health.
I'm not sure what you mean by the Ornish program, but I don't care if people have their own perspective on health issues. As long as they don't make it a spiritual issue and start separating from other Christians over it.

Personally I would prefer to be vegetarian as meat is no longer generally appetizing to me, but I have protein needs that are unique so that forces me to eat meat, or a lot of vegetables..more than I can really eat.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,744
1,928
113
#86
I am working with a girl that has scoliosis. It is slow and gradual and takes time. Francis Macnutt talked about this 30 years ago how healing can be slow, gradual and take place over time. Esp with scoliosis where exercise is a vital part of the healing. Sort of like when we were in school they kept tell us to sit up straight and straighten our back out.

Life can be a journey and sometimes the best we can hope for is slow gradual progress. As a Christian life continues to improve and get better. We know those that are not saved and redeemed and do not walk with God because their life goes from bad to worse. For us we go from Glory to Glory.
True enough, about going from glory to glory..and eventually our physical bodies will be redeemed.

But it is not taught that Christians will not experience the aging process. In fact, the aging process causes many Christians to be conformed to the image of Christ. They realize this world is fleeting, and their need for dependence on God, as their strength dwindles and their bodies become infirmed. They also realize the horrid results of Adam's sin, as it is being manifested in their bodies..and yes...the believer does experience the physical consequences of the Fall no matter what they say or claim.

The "positive confession" movement is, in theological terms, baloney :)

I'm not saying you believe that..just adding to my comments.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,773
113
#88
He is half right. Which is not good.
They are still eaten with consequence.
The "cleansing" comes when they are prayed over before eaten.

God was wise in forbidding harmful creatures.
What he did later after Jesus ascended was remove the spiritual penalty.
It is still not recommended to ingest harmful foods.

I believe the barrier was lifted for the gentiles to not be placed under some food yoke.

We can see the fruit of the spiritual police here on cc.

Strife is like a close companion to them.

Anytime you see strife,it most always indicates somebody does not belong.
God is mercy. I believe he deliberately dropped the food police deal as a sign.
The police/pharisees have one less rock in their little bags.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,773
113
#90
To me, Nothing wrong to pray for the sick. Up to God to heal or not God know the best.
The more we lay hands on,the more that are healed.
One that arena is entered and we see partial results it is only right and God that we seek to be more effective.

If I parade before my spirit a wishy washy format where I am unsure of his will in healing my results will be embarrassing.

Faith builds.

Faith is multi leveled and multifaceted.
Children need the bible stories. It establishes them, sets within them a spiritual compass,and puts definition in their walk.
But even bigger THEY BUILD FAITH.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,773
113
#91
We have an enemy folks.
It ain't Jesus and it sure ain't his gifts and power(should be a nobrainer.)And it definitely ain't the brethren.

While some are causing strife in the body and policing every flyspeck in the brethren,we have satan laughing and eating our lunch.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,460
3,544
113
#92
my proof is, he was participating in the arrest of Jesus and his boss rejected Jesus as the promised messiah.

Thus I concluded he is an unbeliever too.
Ok, if that is how you reason, then I can't have a reasonable discussion with you.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,773
113
#93
Ok, if that is how you reason, then I can't have a reasonable discussion with you.
I can have 2 dynamics in my walk.(amongst many)
Proactive

Passive

There is an absence of passion,results,zeal,risk,and prophetic declaration in the passive.

The thing you hate is a clue to your calling and office in the body.

For example,benny hinn hates sickness.
USC hates what he PERCIEVEs to be false brethren or possibly their doctrine or anointing.
Benny fights the devil and directly attacks infirmity.

USC attacks the brethren.

But in either case they are propelled by their God given anointings/callings/office.

One into the stream and river of God.
One into a ultimate debacle.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,460
3,544
113
#94
I can have 2 dynamics in my walk.(amongst many)
Proactive

Passive

There is an absence of passion,results,zeal,risk,and prophetic declaration in the passive.

The thing you hate is a clue to your calling and office in the body.

For example,benny hinn hates sickness.
USC hates what he PERCIEVEs to be false brethren or possibly their doctrine or anointing.
Benny fights the devil and directly attacks infirmity.

USC attacks the brethren.

But in either case they are propelled by their God given anointings/callings/office.

One into the stream and river of God.
One into a ultimate debacle.
What dynamic do you call it when someone jumps in to answer a post directed to another individual?
 
Dec 30, 2019
1,266
290
83
#95
The "positive confession" movement is, in theological terms, baloney
You must have missed my post about my dad. He was a physician for over 50 years and the medical doctors use a lot of the power of suggestion and the power of positive thinking. This is all very effective in people being healed. I am sure you know how powerful our words are and how we have to be very careful what we say because God is going to hold us accountable for every word we speak. "But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken." (Matthew 12:36) Everyone is accountable for every word they speak. I like to joke around but I have to be careful because God watches over every word I say. My dad was very much a man of his word. If he said he was going to do something he did it.
 
Dec 30, 2019
1,266
290
83
#96
What dynamic do you call it when someone jumps in to answer a post directed to another individual?
Public forms are designed to be an open chat. They were designed in the day when the modems were only 300 bps and very slow. I got into computers when they came out with the 1200 bps modem and it began to be possible to have live conversations.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,744
1,928
113
#97
You must have missed my post about my dad. He was a physician for over 50 years and the medical doctors use a lot of the power of suggestion and the power of positive thinking. This is all very effective in people being healed. I am sure you know how powerful our words are and how we have to be very careful what we say because God is going to hold us accountable for every word we speak. "But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken." (Matthew 12:36) Everyone is accountable for every word they speak. I like to joke around but I have to be careful because God watches over every word I say. My dad was very much a man of his word. If he said he was going to do something he did it.
Question: "Is there power in positive confession?"

Answer:
Positive confession is the practice of saying aloud what you want to happen with the expectation that God will make it a reality. It’s popular among prosperity gospel adherents who claim that words have spiritual power and that, if we speak aloud the right words with the right faith, we can gain riches and health, bind Satan, and accomplish anything we want. To confess positively is to speak words that we believe or want to believe, thus making them reality. This is opposed to negative confession, which is to acknowledge hardships, poverty, and illness and thus (supposedly) accept them and refuse the ease, wealth, and health God has planned for us.

There are several things wrong with this philosophy. The most dangerous is the belief that words have a kind of spiritual, magical power that we can use to get what we want. The practice borrows not from biblical truths, but from a new age concept called the "law of attraction." It teaches that "like attracts like"—a positive statement or thought will draw a positive reaction. Everything is imbued with God’s presence and power—not “God” as the omnipresent Creator, but “god” in a Hindu/pantheistic way. The net result is the idea that our words hold the power to force God to give us what we want—a heretical belief. Additionally, the results attributed to positive confession are powered by the faith of the individual. This leads to the old belief that illness and poverty are a type of punishment for sin (in this case, lack of faith). John 9:1-3 and the entire book of Job refute this soundly.

The second problem is that the prosperity gospel misinterprets the promises of God. “Confession” is agreeing with what God has said; "positive confession" is demanding human desires. People who push positive confession say that the practice is merely restating God’s promises as given in the Bible. But they don’t differentiate between universal promises God made to all His followers (e.g., Philippians 4:19) and personal promises made to individuals at a certain time for a particular purpose (e.g., Jeremiah 29:11). They also misinterpret the promises God does give us, refusing to accept that God’s plan for our lives may not match up with our own (Isaiah 55:9). A carefree, perfect life is the antithesis of what Jesus said the Christian life would look like—and the lives that His followers lived. Jesus didn’t promise prosperity; He promised hardship (Matthew 8:20). He didn’t promise that our every want would be fulfilled; He promised we’d have what we need (Philippians 4:19). He didn’t promise peace in a family; He promised that families would have problems as some chose to follow Him and some didn’t (Matthew 10:34-36). And He didn’t promise health; He promised to fulfill His plan for us and grace in the trials (2 Corinthians 12:7-10).

Another issue with positive confession is that, although the "confessions" are understood to refer to things in the future, many of the statements are simply lies. Certainly, verbally affirming one’s faith in God and deliverance by the sacrifice of Jesus is good. But proclaiming, "I always obey God," or, "I am wealthy," is deceptive and possibly against the very will of the God we are to cling to. Especially disturbing are the "confessions" about other people. God has given each of us the freedom to serve Him or rebel against Him in our individual ways; claiming otherwise is foolish.

Finally, the Bible is very clear that "negative confession" does not negate God’s blessings. The Psalms are filled with cries to God for deliverance, and Psalm 55:22 and 1 Peter 5:7 exhort us follow that example. Even Jesus went before the Heavenly Father with a clear eye on the situation and a request for aid (Matthew 26:39). The God of the Bible is not a cosmic Santa Claus (James 4:1-3). He is a loving Father who wants to be involved in His children’s lives—the good and the bad. It is when we humble ourselves and ask for help that He gives us either release from the circumstances or strength to get through them.

Does positive confession have any value? In a way. Those who are confident they can solve a problem are generally more relaxed and creative. An optimistic mood has been shown to improve health. And happy people often have enough emotional distance between themselves and others to pick up on subtle clues which could lead to successful personal and business transactions. In addition, consistently voicing one’s goals keeps those goals on the forefront; those who constantly think about getting more money will act accordingly.

The dangers of positive confession far outweigh the benefits. All of the advantages we’ve listed are psychological and somewhat physiological—not spiritual. The only spiritual benefit to be had is the fact that people who expect God to move are more likely to see God’s hand in situations. But words are not magic. Our role with our Heavenly Father is not to demand, but to ask for help and to trust. And to realize that our blessings are not dependent on the strength of our faith, but on His plan and His power.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
56
HBG. Pa. USA
#98
Acts 10:
9 About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11 He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. 13 Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”

14 “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”

15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

16 This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

17 While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon’s house was and stopped at the gate. 18 They called out, asking if Simon who was known as Peter was staying there.

19 While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Simon, three[a] men are looking for you. 20 So get up and go downstairs. Do not hesitate to go with them, for I have sent them.”

21 Peter went down and said to the men, “I’m the one you’re looking for. Why have you come?”

22 The men replied, “We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people. A holy angel told him to ask you to come to his house so that he could hear what you have to say.” 23 Then Peter invited the men into the house to be his guests


The Judaizer will leap to his feet immediately, and say, only Gentiles have been made clean, not animals.

However, the unclean meat laws were actually meant to discourage Israelites from table fellowship with Gentiles, because Gentiles were involved in idolatry and God wanted to hinder their fellowship with Gentiles.

Ephesians 2:13-15 indicates that the Law, in part, held this sort of "separation' commandments which separated Israelites from surrounding Gentiles.

Since this was no longer necessary, due to the inclusion of Gentiles within the Church, neither are the food laws applicable.

And, I know the likely responses I will get in regards to this. God didn't cleanse food but he cleansed Gentiles. Well, if that is true, God is most certainly being misleading here, and providing grounds for deception with regards to food. If it is that big a deal, then God really messed up.

There are other references to the issues of days and diet and their inapplicability in the Scriptures. However, the Judaizer, who wants to separate himself as more pure and holy than others, will continue to insist that days and diet are important to God under the New Covenant.

If anyone has a conscience in this regard, I encourage them to avoid eating, and to meet on whatever day you want. I don't care. But, that isn't where they will leave it. Their full-time occupation is accusing others of being unconverted or less spiritual than them over matters of food and days.

And, that is where I was, as a bottle-sucking, diaper-wearing little Judaizer :)
You talk way to much.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
56
HBG. Pa. USA
#99
Acts 10:
9 About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11 He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. 13 Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”

14 “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”

15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

16 This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

17 While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon’s house was and stopped at the gate. 18 They called out, asking if Simon who was known as Peter was staying there.

19 While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Simon, three[a] men are looking for you. 20 So get up and go downstairs. Do not hesitate to go with them, for I have sent them.”

21 Peter went down and said to the men, “I’m the one you’re looking for. Why have you come?”

22 The men replied, “We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people. A holy angel told him to ask you to come to his house so that he could hear what you have to say.” 23 Then Peter invited the men into the house to be his guests
You missed an important part. Impure animals by your translation was made clean not the unclean. Impure is Koinos in the Greek it means common. And if you must impure. If translated impure then typically it is in reference to things that were ceremonially impure. Like the vessels for the Sanctuary before they were cleansed. Not the animals that God had said were unclean. Peter said he never partook of anything Common OR unclean. The word "or" makes a distinction between the two. Then God said call nothing that he had cleansed Common. No mention of the unclean By God whatsoever.

Acts 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
Acts 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
56
HBG. Pa. USA
He is half right. Which is not good.
They are still eaten with consequence.
The "cleansing" comes when they are prayed over before eaten.

.
Where did you get that from my friend? I will repost what I just posted above for you here for your prayerful consideration.

Peter said he never partook of anything Common OR unclean. The word "or" makes a distinction between the two. Then God said call nothing that he had cleansed Common. No mention of the unclean By God whatsoever.

Acts 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
Acts 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.