Will faith-healers step out in faith and heal Corona virus victims? I doubt it.

[JohnR7]

Since this was no longer necessary, due to the inclusion of Gentiles within the Church, neither are the food laws applicable.

I would suggest to follow the law about not eating fat because the violation of that law is the leading cause of death. Of course we are all going to heaven so what difference does it make if we get there early? There are rewards and benefits to living this life that we miss out on when we die an early death.

One day I was reading the 119 Psalm and David was talking about his love for the law and the commandments of God. I though you have got to be kidding me, David is giving praise, honor and glory to the law of God. Then I began to learn from David that the law is an expression of God's love for us and God's desire for us to be in good health and receive the best of what He has for us to receive.

For me the law of God and the Word of God are the same. Anyone that is against the Law of God is against the word of God and God Himself who wants the very best for us. His desire is to watch over and protect us. "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing." (Matthew 23:37) niv

I realize they want to add to the Law. The additions they make - tend to make a lot of sense. Still Jesus said it is enough to follow the law and we do not need to add to that and we are not to add to the word of God.

 

[JohnR7]

Positive confession is the practice of saying aloud what you want to happen with the expectation that God will make it a reality.

Wrong, you never even made it OUT of the gate. Positive confession is to confess the word of God and trust God that He is going to watch over HIS word to do what He said He is going to do. This is why we have books on the promises of God. All of God's promises are conditional. We have a covenant relationship with God. IF we keep our part then we can be sure that God will do His part of the covenant. This is why it is important to read and study our Bible. To know what is on the menu and what God makes available for us to enjoy.

 

[crossnote]

Public forms are designed to be an open chat. They were designed in the day when the modems were only 300 bps and very slow. I got into computers when they came out with the 1200 bps modem and it began to be possible to have live conversations.

I've fiddled with them since '82 and was quite active on mIRC in the '90's. But so what?
'Absolutely' came out of the blue with this statement,
"The thing you hate is a clue to your calling and office in the body."
He doesn't have a clue about me, what I hate or what my calling is.
But I can spot trollish behavior when I see it.

 

[Guojing]

Ok, if that is how you reason, then I can't have a reasonable discussion with you.

The facts are laid out.


He was there to arrest Jesus

He serves someone who rejects Jesus as the messiah

It is very likely he does not accept Jesus as the messiah too. Yet Jesus was able to heal him.

Even now, I do hear of various pastors who claim to have the gift of healing, remarking that it is sometimes easier for non Christians to receive healing than. Christians. They have testified to that before

 

[Absolutely]

What dynamic do you call it when someone jumps in to answer a post directed to another individual?

A forum

 

[Absolutely]

Where did you get that from my friend? I will repost what I just posted above for you here for your prayerful consideration.

Peter said he never partook of anything Common OR unclean. The word "or" makes a distinction between the two. Then God said call nothing that he had cleansed Common. No mention of the unclean By God whatsoever.

Acts 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
Acts 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Did you read this verse?

 

[tourist]

No, but if Christians do not get healed, is it because of unbelief? I have heard pastors say, if you believe, you WILL get healed of your malady.

I would stay clear of a pastor that preaches this. God may indeed heal someone but it may not be in that person's lifetime.

 

[tourist]

A bit on the extreme end, but there are people who do not go to doctors because they believe they will get healed.

A lot of these people die from forsaking health care, including their children.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Where did you get that from my friend? I will repost what I just posted above for you here for your prayerful consideration.

Peter said he never partook of anything Common OR unclean. The word "or" makes a distinction between the two. Then God said call nothing that he had cleansed Common. No mention of the unclean By God whatsoever.

Acts 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
Acts 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

I don't know what your point is. Sounds like Judaizer reasoning to get around what Scripture clearly says.

He told Peter to rise, and eat.

This gives clear indication that unclean animals are now clean.

We also find no commands for Gentiles to refrain from eating unclean meat or keeping the Sabbath. In fact, slaves would have no chance to dictate their food choice or their day of worship.

And, as I have said, Judaizers are all about days and diet, days and diet, days and diet, days and diet...that's their fixation.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

I would suggest to follow the law about not eating fat because the violation of that law is the leading cause of death. Of course we are all going to heaven so what difference does it make if we get there early? There are rewards and benefits to living this life that we miss out on when we die an early death.

One day I was reading the 119 Psalm and David was talking about his love for the law and the commandments of God. I though you have got to be kidding me, David is giving praise, honor and glory to the law of God. Then I began to learn from David that the law is an expression of God's love for us and God's desire for us to be in good health and receive the best of what He has for us to receive.

For me the law of God and the Word of God are the same. Anyone that is against the Law of God is against the word of God and God Himself who wants the very best for us. His desire is to watch over and protect us. "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing." (Matthew 23:37) niv

I realize they want to add to the Law. The additions they make - tend to make a lot of sense. Still Jesus said it is enough to follow the law and we do not need to add to that and we are not to add to the word of God.

The word "law" is towrah, and it actually means all of God's instructions.

And, if you feel that unclean meat laws still apply, don't eat those foods.

However, you aren't to judge others for their decision to do otherwise, according to Romans 14.

Regarding possible health benefits, physical circumcision is no longer required, but there are certain benefits to physical circumcision including reduction of penile cancer and reducing the chance of infecting a wife with certain conditions. However, health benefits don't prove continuity.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Wrong, you never even made it OUT of the gate. Positive confession is to confess the word of God and trust God that He is going to watch over HIS word to do what He said He is going to do. This is why we have books on the promises of God. All of God's promises are conditional. We have a covenant relationship with God. IF we keep our part then we can be sure that God will do His part of the covenant. This is why it is important to read and study our Bible. To know what is on the menu and what God makes available for us to enjoy.

No, you are incorrect. God's promises are not always conditional.

Go back and study the covenants. As an example, the covenant God made with Abraham was unconditional. Note that you said 'all of God's promises are conditional'.

Even the most superficial Bible scholar knows that there are conditional and unconditional promises contained in Scripture.

Another one? God promised never to flood the earth again. There was no condition attached to this promise.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

You missed an important part. Impure animals by your translation was made clean not the unclean. Impure is Koinos in the Greek it means common. And if you must impure. If translated impure then typically it is in reference to things that were ceremonially impure. Like the vessels for the Sanctuary before they were cleansed. Not the animals that God had said were unclean. Peter said he never partook of anything Common OR unclean. The word "or" makes a distinction between the two. Then God said call nothing that he had cleansed Common. No mention of the unclean By God whatsoever.

Acts 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
Acts 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

Peter refused, similar to Ezekiel when commanded by the Lord to eat bread cooked over human dung (Ezekiel 4:9-14).

Concerning common or unclean, there may be a subtle difference, but it is difficult to determine precise differences in meaning based on existing contexts.

Additionally, the same Greek word for "common" was used in relation to eating unclean meat in 1 Macc 1:41-64, in terms of sacrifical animals AND eating unclean meat, so I don't understand the point. Either word can be used to refer to ceremonial impurity or unclean meat laws. However, it doesn't make any difference because God told him to rise and eat...therefore there was a lesson God was conveying concerning food consumption, as well as the Gentile's status before God. Like I said, the two are associated because some laws within Israel were meant to separate them in a social context to prevent the Israelites from falling into idolatry. It is also significant that meals in pagan trade temples were a problem in the early church, which led to immoral behavior and idolatry with some.

The New Covenant age of salvation meant full inclusion of Gentiles and fulfillment of OT laws of ritual purity. See Mark 7:19, Col 2:16-17. This means that the way for table-fellowship has been opened between Jew and Gentile.

The commandment regarding unclean meats was meant to create a social barrier between the ancient Israelites and the Gentiles, to avoid idolatry.

Gentiles were considered unclean by virtue of what they ate.

Socially, relationships are hindered when the two parties don't share the same diet. Gentiles were generally idolaters, so by intentionally separating Jews and Gentiles socially through diet, Israel was kept "holy" or separate from the surrounding nations.

Ephesians 2:13-15 relates to the removal of such prohibitions, and says that we are one man in Christ, Jews and Gentiles. Mark 7:14-19 hints at this, prior to the death and crucifixion of Jesus.

Additionally, there is complete silence regarding commands for Gentiles to observe clean/unclean meat laws (or the Sabbath). As a former Sabbathkeeper, I don't find it credible that Paul would have remained silent on this issue. Obviously either issue would have presented problems for slaves with Gentile masters, as they would not have had the power to dictate either their diet or the days that they rest/worship. Yet, the Judaizer expects us to believe that such new practices were simply accepted by Gentile masters without any recorded disturbance in Scripture.

Judaizers apparently make a huge assumption that slaves had civil rights like freedmen possess in modern day democratic societies.

By the way, I am not claiming Maccabees is inspired, but contemporary Greek usage is valuable in giving us an idea on how the word for "common" can be used...and it is used both in a ceremonial purity sense, as well as unclean in terms of meat in this section of Maccabees.

 

[JohnR7]

Go back and study the covenants. As an example, the covenant God made with Abraham was unconditional. Note that you said 'all of God's promises are conditional'.

I said we have a covenant relationship with God. You like to cherry pick and take things out of context trying to prove that you are right and others are wrong. IN someway this puffs up your ego when you should humble yourself before God. I suppose we are all guilty of this to some degree though.

 

[JohnR7]

However, you aren't to judge others for their decision to do otherwise, according to Romans 14.

I do not judge people. I had congestive heart failure and I went through physical therapy along with 36 classes. I just want to share with people what I worked hard to learn from the medical establishment. Actually it is a miracle that I am alive and I think this is why God resurrected me from death so I could do what I am doing. They say we are to share with people out of the abundance of our learning. So for now I plan to finish the race and complete the work God has given me to do.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

I do not judge people. I had congestive heart failure and I went through physical therapy along with 36 classes. I just want to share with people what I worked hard to learn from the medical establishment. Actually it is a miracle that I am alive and I think this is why God resurrected me from death so I could do what I am doing. They say we are to share with people out of the abundance of our learning. So for now I plan to finish the race and complete the work God has given me to do.

OK, well if that's your conviction, feel free to express it

Maybe there is health benefits but it's not a spiritual issue. Like I said, physical circumcision has some health benefits but it's not a spiritual issue.

 

[JohnR7]

Maybe there is health benefits but it's not a spiritual issue.

Exactly, bingo, you figured it out. We benefit when we make the right choices in life. We suffer when we make the wrong choices in life. God wants us to prosper and be in good health. So He wants us to make all the right choices in life.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Peter refused, similar to Ezekiel when commanded by the Lord to eat bread cooked over human dung (Ezekiel 4:9-14).

Concerning common or unclean, there may be a subtle difference, but it is difficult to determine precise differences in meaning based on existing contexts.

Additionally, the same Greek word for "common" was used in relation to eating unclean meat in 1 Macc 1:41-64, in terms of sacrifical animals AND eating unclean meat, so I don't understand the point. Either word can be used to refer to ceremonial impurity or unclean meat laws. However, it doesn't make any difference because God told him to rise and eat...therefore there was a lesson God was conveying concerning food consumption, as well as the Gentile's status before God. Like I said, the two are associated because some laws within Israel were meant to separate them in a social context to prevent the Israelites from falling into idolatry. It is also significant that meals in pagan trade temples were a problem in the early church, which led to immoral behavior and idolatry with some.

The New Covenant age of salvation meant full inclusion of Gentiles and fulfillment of OT laws of ritual purity. See Mark 7:19, Col 2:16-17. This means that the way for table-fellowship has been opened between Jew and Gentile.

The commandment regarding unclean meats was meant to create a social barrier between the ancient Israelites and the Gentiles, to avoid idolatry.

Gentiles were considered unclean by virtue of what they ate.

Socially, relationships are hindered when the two parties don't share the same diet. Gentiles were generally idolaters, so by intentionally separating Jews and Gentiles socially through diet, Israel was kept "holy" or separate from the surrounding nations.

Ephesians 2:13-15 relates to the removal of such prohibitions, and says that we are one man in Christ, Jews and Gentiles. Mark 7:14-19 hints at this, prior to the death and crucifixion of Jesus.

Additionally, there is complete silence regarding commands for Gentiles to observe clean/unclean meat laws (or the Sabbath). As a former Sabbathkeeper, I don't find it credible that Paul would have remained silent on this issue. Obviously either issue would have presented problems for slaves with Gentile masters, as they would not have had the power to dictate either their diet or the days that they rest/worship. Yet, the Judaizer expects us to believe that such new practices were simply accepted by Gentile masters without any recorded disturbance in Scripture.

Judaizers apparently make a huge assumption that slaves had civil rights like freedmen possess in modern day democratic societies.

By the way, I am not claiming Maccabees is inspired, but contemporary Greek usage is valuable in giving us an idea on how the word for "common" can be used...and it is used both in a ceremonial purity sense, as well as unclean in terms of meat in this section of Maccabees.

By the way, after thinking about it, I believe "common" and "unclean" are related.

Being "unclean" is what makes the meat "common" or ceremonially defiled.

In this case, God cleansed both meats and men, and therefore they are not "common" or ceremonially defiled anymore.

And, Ephesians 2:13-15 indicates that some commands were "separation commands" that were meant to cause a separation between Jew and Gentile. All believers are one man in Jesus, and there are no longer to be "separation commands" like this. Having clean/unclean designations were only one example of Mosaic commandments that served to divide people, because if you don't eat their food, you don't fellowship with them. Table fellowship was a big thing in this culture.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Exactly, bingo, you figured it out. We benefit when we make the right choices in life. We suffer when we make the wrong choices in life. God wants us to prosper and be in good health. So He wants us to make all the right choices in life.

I don't think we are exactly in agreement, but let's just leave it at that

Actually if you think that certain laws still apply, and help in terms of health benefits, go ahead and do them. That's what your conscience dictates, and that's what you should do.

I just think it's way too easy to fall into a Judaizer mentality, which is basically requiring that others observe ceremonial aspects of the Mosaic Law as a necessary condition of salvation.

 

[lightbearer]

The word "law" is towrah, and it actually means all of God's instructions.

And, if you feel that unclean meat laws still apply, don't eat those foods.

However, you aren't to judge others for their decision to do otherwise, according to Romans 14.


.

Romans 14 also uses the Greek word for common not unclean.'

I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing by itself is common; except to the one deeming anything to be common, it is common.
(Rom 14:14 LITV)

But Peter said, Not at all, Lord, because I never did eat anything common OR unclean. And again a voice came to him a second time, What things God made clean, you do not make common.
(Act 10:14-15 LITV)

As Was said there is a distinction between the two. And God only cleansed the things that were considered common. THAT IS WHAT HE SAID. I will go with that.

 

[crossnote]

Even now, I do hear of various pastors who claim to have the gift of healing, remarking that it is sometimes easier for non Christians to receive healing than. Christians. They have testified to that before

So you believe everything you hear?
Matthew 13:58 (KJV) And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.