Will you go to Heaven?

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Ralph-

Senior Member
Aug 10, 2017
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...no one becomes sinless and preaching that one must cease sinning to maintain their salvation is not the Gospel message...

Our salvation is not dependant on us ceasing to sin..
You do not maintain your salvation by not sinning. You maintain your salvation by continuing to believe. Ultimately, the 'not sinning' part comes along for the ride as a result of the continued believing.
 

SpoonJuly

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2018
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You do not maintain your salvation by not sinning. You maintain your salvation by continuing to believe. Ultimately, the 'not sinning' part comes along for the ride as a result of the continued believing.
My salvation is maintained by Jesus. John 10:27-29
No help needed from me.
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
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I was not talking about willful sin... I was talking about sin that is not willful... That is the sin that we sin because we are weak and faulty human beings.. No one,, And i mean No one who is saved is sinless.. Therefore anyone who says we are bound to achieve sinless living by ceasing to sin is preaching death to every human being on earth.. Because No one,, Ever,, becomes a sinless human being in this life time in this fallen condition...

Yes people should resist sin and they should also strive to do good, to love their neighbour.. But no one becomes sinless and preaching that one must cease sinning to maintain their salvation is not the Gospel message and it is a deception leading people to the pits of hell.. Because only the Gospel Way of salvation through the Atonement of Jesus can save us from the penalty of our sins.. Our salvation is not dependant on us ceasing to sin..

First. Salvation is IN Christ

In Christ there is no sin. The lie from the pit is that there is sin in Christ.
The bible actually says that whoever sins has not known Christ.

So you should read the bible and change your errant views which are contradicted by the truth.
 

SpoonJuly

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2018
442
181
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First. Salvation is IN Christ

In Christ there is no sin. The lie from the pit is that there is sin in Christ.
The bible actually says that whoever sins has not known Christ.

So you should read the bible and change your errant views which are contradicted by the truth.
Well, if you are saying you do not sin, you are a liar.
 

LPT

Senior Member
Dec 24, 2017
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Does he prepare a place for you just to lay empty and abandoned, No he certainly does not.

John 14:3
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and will receive you to myself; that where I am, you may be there also.
 

Ralph-

Senior Member
Aug 10, 2017
3,065
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My salvation is maintained by Jesus. John 10:27-29
No help needed from me.
That's why you need to keep believing in him. You can't secure it or maintain it yourself. Jesus is the power in salvation. You just need to trust in that power. And keep trusting in that power.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
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Well, if you are saying you do not sin, you are a liar.
Yes indeed.. Anyone who says they have no sin is a liar.. Anyone who preaches sinlessness in human flesh is pedaling a false doctrine..
 

mcubed

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2013
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You do not maintain your salvation by not sinning. You maintain your salvation by continuing to believe. Ultimately, the 'not sinning' part comes along for the ride as a result of the continued believing.
I LOVE this statement you wrote!!! Let me ask you this can someone saved stop believing? Or could it be they never really did and just not saved in the first place?

I as a 26+ years believer even in my darkest, deepest sin filled vallies of my salvation can not emagion not believing in MY SALVATION, MESSIAH!!!
 

MarkWilliams

Active member
Jun 13, 2018
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I LOVE this statement you wrote!!! Let me ask you this can someone saved stop believing? Or could it be they never really did and just not saved in the first place?

I as a 26+ years believer even in my darkest, deepest sin filled vallies of my salvation can not emagion not believing in MY SALVATION, MESSIAH!!!
I've heard many great sermons on this question, they all agree you cannot lose your salvation if it was genuine in the first place. We see many professing believers exposed by their lifestyle, but some appear to be genuine to the end. God exposed them on the day of judgement, when He tells them to depart from him and He never knew them.
 

mcubed

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2013
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I've heard many great sermons on this question, they all agree you cannot lose your salvation if it was genuine in the first place. We see many professing believers exposed by their lifestyle, but some appear to be genuine to the end. God exposed them on the day of judgement, when He tells them to depart from him and He never knew them.
You hit the nail right on the head and we have many with righteous lifestyles too, some even preach, that hears the same thing.... It is of the heart that we cannot judge their salvation!!
 

pottersclay

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2015
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Salvation is found in Christ and Christ alone. We don't maintain it he does. He is salvation.

Give you an example, there are 3 saints that we definitely know went to heaven, Moses, Elijah and the thief on the cross.
Moses and Elijah appeared with Christ after their death. The thief was told by our Lord that he would be with him in paradise.
Now just for kicks look at Moses life. He was a murderer, misrepresented God broke the law and was told he would not enter the promised Land.
Study the life of these 3 and see how these saints maintained there salvation.....they didn't. It was a gift from God.
David I'm sure is there but look at his life,
Abraham pagan and idol maker yet God saved them .
 

Ralph-

Senior Member
Aug 10, 2017
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Let me ask you this can someone saved stop believing? Or could it be they never really did and just not saved in the first place?
The Galatians were saved, yet they fell away from belief in Christ for justification back to keeping the Mosaic worship laws for justification.


I as a 26+ years believer even in my darkest, deepest sin filled vallies of my salvation can not emagion not believing in MY SALVATION, MESSIAH!!!
Yes, 'you' can not imagine no longer believing in Messiah. But there are believers with weaker faith who can imagine it, and who do fall away.

There are weak, immature believers who have faith, but the word is not deeply grounded in them and it can be easily uprooted from them. These are the 2nd type of soil believers in the Parable of the Sower. They believe for a while but since the word is not deeply rooted in them they fall away when trouble and persecution comes because of the word.

In a related teaching, Jesus talks about the severe punishment that will come to the stumbling block who causes a "little one who believes in Me" to stumble and go to the eternal, fiery hell:

6but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

8If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire. 9“If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell.

He says it's better for the sake of the little one's who believe in him that the person who causes the stumbling be cut off from the body (the church) because it's better for these little ones who believe in him to do that than for them to stumble and go to the eternal, fiery hell. But the church is sure that is not even a possibility because they are sure that once a person believes in Jesus and are saved they are always saved and can never go to the eternal hell.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
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mcubed said:
Let me ask you this can someone saved stop believing? Or could it be they never really did and just not saved in the first place?
The Galatians were saved, yet they fell away from belief in Christ for justification back to keeping the Mosaic worship laws for justification.
Paul never once stated that the Galatians had become, or were in danger of becoming, unsaved.
 

Ralph-

Senior Member
Aug 10, 2017
3,065
241
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Salvation is found in Christ and Christ alone. We don't maintain it he does. He is salvation.

Give you an example, there are 3 saints that we definitely know went to heaven, Moses, Elijah and the thief on the cross.
Moses and Elijah appeared with Christ after their death. The thief was told by our Lord that he would be with him in paradise.
Now just for kicks look at Moses life. He was a murderer, misrepresented God broke the law and was told he would not enter the promised Land.
Study the life of these 3 and see how these saints maintained there salvation.....they didn't. It was a gift from God.
David I'm sure is there but look at his life,
Abraham pagan and idol maker yet God saved them .
None of these people wanted to go back to Egypt. They sinned, but none of them wanted to go back to where they came from.

"if they had been thinking of that country from which they went out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one (IOW, they didn't go back). Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for He has prepared a city for them. "-Hebrews 11: 15-16

They sinned, but they never fell away from faith in the promises.

 

Ralph-

Senior Member
Aug 10, 2017
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Paul never once stated that the Galatians had become, or were in danger of becoming, unsaved.
Yes he did.

He said they were making themselves slaves of the old covenant, and that slaves of the old covenant are not heirs with the sons of the New Covenant.

I know this is not an easy pill to swallow but it's right there in the pages of our Bibles.
 

Ralph-

Senior Member
Aug 10, 2017
3,065
241
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I've heard many great sermons on this question, they all agree you cannot lose your salvation if it was genuine in the first place.
If their faith is genuine, and if it is strong and producing fruit they will not fall away and lose their salvation.

It is weak believers in whom the word is not deeply planted and producing fruit that are in danger of falling away and losing their salvation.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,085
395
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No, he did not.

He said they were making themselves slaves of the old covenant, and that slaves of the old covenant are not heirs with the sons of the New Covenant.
He was explaining the differences between the old and new covenant, and explaining HOW they became saved, but he never once said the Galatians were in danger of losing their salvation.

I know this is not an easy pill to swallow but it's right there in the pages of our Bibles.
:rolleyes:
 

Ralph-

Senior Member
Aug 10, 2017
3,065
241
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I know this is not an easy pill to swallow but it's right there in the pages of our Bibles.
Because of the wickedness in the church, we are living in a time of a scarcity of the word of God like in the time of Samuel's youth:

"word from the LORD was rare in those days, visions were infrequent."


It's not a famine of the written word of God. Especially for us who have an over abundance of the written word all around us and literally at our fingertips. What is scarce is the revelation of God's word--the spiritual understanding of the word of God. Without it we listen to pastors and teachers starving in the same famine of the word along with us and we all look right past the passages of scripture that plainly speak of the danger of immature believers falling away so as to go to the eternal fire, and how it is the mature, fruit bearing believer in whom the word goes deep that is secure in Christ and who endures to the end in faith.