Will you go to Heaven?

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Mar 14, 2011
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#81
It was rejected before the corruption of the Roman church.

Oh, by the way....

You have said repeatedly that people can't and won't depart from the Lord because he never gives them any reason to. So what reason did God give the Galatians for departing from him? How did God let them down to cause them to turn to the law and away from trust in Him?
Lol, the church was corrupted long before read me got ahold of it.

As for galatia, why do you not heed the warning Paul gave to them.


Gal 3:3 are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#82
Everybody who believes (present tense) is persevered in Christ. The promise is to those who continue in Christ, not for those who fall away. Like the Galatians.

Christ is like a hurricane shelter. You have to enter into the shelter to be saved from the storm. You have to stay in the shelter to continue to be safe from the storm. The shelter is sure. The shelter will last forever. And nobody can expel you from the shelter. The only thing that can remove the safety of the shelter is if you walk away from it.
The galations were warned about trying to perfect their salvation in The flesh. Much like you tryi gto perfect or maintain your salvation with your fleshly belief in christ, which t bto honest is no faith at all.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#83
Lol, the church was corrupted long before read me got ahold of it.
...But not by once saved always saved.

As has been pointed out, that doctrine was resisted and defeated by the early church fathers. It had it's origins in Gnosticism. Later, Augustine tried to resurrect it, and failed. Calvin is the one who finally succeeded in bringing it into the church. And it has now grown to the point that now we don't even have to continue to believe to continue to be saved.


As for galatia, why do you not heed the warning Paul gave to them.

Gal 3:3 are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?
I have the same trust in Christ that I had in the beginning. Therefore, the message to the Galatians does not apply to me. I have never fallen away from justification in Christ.
 

jameen

Senior Member
Feb 5, 2018
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Manila
#84
If you think people can lose their salvation.... Have you lost yours? If not how have you stayed saved? If you have how did you get it back and get to go to heaven now? Do you know you will go to heaven?
Paul himself can be a cast away (1 Corinthians 9:27) so any Christian can lose his salvation. We should know that Paul said to imitate him (1 Corinthians 11:1)

A) You can lost your salvation if you sin against the Holy Spirit by blasphemy, eating blood, double dead and foods offered to false gods (just read Acts Chapter 15 okay) and sin against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable for God. (automatically you lose salvation)

B) And if you really sin intentionally and never turn away from it (read Hebrews 10:26-27)

Remember a Christian is just a candidate for salvation so any time you can lose it.

How will you know that you'll go to paradise? Only Jesus can answer it. either by rapture or on Judgment Day.

Ah I forgot not only heaven will be inherited by Christians; they are new heaven and new earth as mentioned in 2 Peter Chapter 3 and Revelation Chapter 21.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#85
...But not by once saved always saved.

As has been pointed out, that doctrine was resisted and defeated by the early church fathers. It had it's origins in Gnosticism. Later, Augustine tried to resurrect it, and failed. Calvin is the one who finally succeeded in bringing it into the church. And it has now grown to the point that now we don't even have to continue to believe to continue to be saved.
Keep believing that, if you wsh, but you have proven nothing.

I have the same trust in Christ that I had in the beginning. Therefore, the message to the Galatians does not apply to me. I have never fallen away from justification in Christ.
You have faith in your fleshly ability to keep trusting God, not in Gods ability to continue to prove trustworthy and never fail you so you lose faith in him. And to complete that which he started, which h promised he would do, in order to do that, he has to keep showing how trustworthy he is, which he des, because god never fails.
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
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#86
And "preservation of the saints" certainly predates Calvin. ;)

Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

Jude 1:1 - Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ.
Powerful Psalm! Thank you, :)

I made a mistake Calvin taught the perserverance of the saints, again a whole different teaching. I agree with "preservation" but not "perserverance" the way the Calvin framed it.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#87
Keep believing that, if you wsh, but you have proven nothing.



You have faith in your fleshly ability to keep trusting God
I have no fleshly ability to keep trusting God. I and everybody else can only choose to trust God and keep trusting God because of God's gracious gift of faith.

As John explains, there are those who choose not to trust in what God has told them is true about his Son. And there are those that do.



...not in Gods ability to continue to prove trustworthy and never fail you so you lose faith in him. And to complete that which he started, which h promised he would do...
I do have faith that God will complete what he started. That's why it will be completed in me. Because I continue to believe that. I trust him to do that. And I continue to trust him to do that.

If you stop trusting in God's sure work on your behalf that is when you lose the benefit of God's sure work on your behalf.



in order to do that, he has to keep showing how trustworthy he is, which he des, because god never fails.
What exactly did God show himself untrustworthy in to the Galatians that caused them to turn away from faith in Christ for justification and to the law instead?
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#88
Powerful Psalm! Thank you, :)
It is a powerful and sure promise. That is why we should continue to trust in his promise. The promise is only for those who trust in it. Stop trusting in the promises and you lose that which he promises. Ask the Galatians about that.
 
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Ralph-

Guest
#89
Keep believing that, if you wsh, but you have proven nothing.
Oh, by way. This not my opinion. It's a simple matter of recorded history.

And it is quite amazing to see Christians reject recorded history when it is presented to them in this forum.
 

SpoonJuly

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2018
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#90
Oh, by way. This not my opinion. It's a simple matter of recorded history.

And it is quite amazing to see Christians reject recorded history when it is presented to them in this forum.
Recorded history is ALWAYS influenced by the views and beliefs of those who record it. Always has been. Is today.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#91
I have no fleshly ability to keep trusting God. I and everybody else can only choose to trust God and keep trusting God because of God's gracious gift of faith.

As John explains, there are those who choose not to trust in what God has told them is true about his Son. And there are those that do.




I do have faith that God will complete what he started. That's why it will be completed in me. Because I continue to believe that. I trust him to do that. And I continue to trust him to do that.

If you stop trusting in God's sure work on your behalf that is when you lose the benefit of God's sure work on your behalf.
See you contradicted yourself, you say you have faith in god to keep, then said as long as you keep. Ie, your trusting in you power to have faith, not in gods power to keep you trusting him

What exactly did God show himself untrustworthy in to the Galatians that caused them to turn away from faith in Christ for justification and to the law instead?
They never had faith in HIM to begin with, their faith was in the law, why would they so quickly return to that which they supposedly repented of a short time ago, unless they never really trustd that to begin with
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#92
Oh, by way. This not my opinion. It's a simple matter of recorded history.

And it is quite amazing to see Christians reject recorded history when it is presented to them in this forum.
The only history that can be trusted is the bible, god is not gonna say, well history supported you ralph, so i guess i have to let you in.

History supported the jews who crucified christ also, we see how good it did them

Stick to the word, you will be better off
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#93
They never had faith in HIM to begin with, their faith was in the law, why would they so quickly return to that which they supposedly repented of a short time ago, unless they never really trustd that to begin with
Paul says they did have faith in Him:

"3Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?"-Galatians 3:3

"6I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ..."-Galatians 2:6

The Bible in no way supports your claim.

These are saved people who have the Spirit, and they are leaving their trust in Christ and turning to trust in the works of the law. But according to you no believer will ever leave because God never lets them down for there to be a reason for them to leave. So explain to us how God let the Galatians down giving them reason to fall away from faith and trust in Christ.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#94
Recorded history is ALWAYS influenced by the views and beliefs of those who record it. Always has been. Is today.
You're actually saying the recorded words of the early church fathers are fake.

Anything to keep 'once saved always saved' alive, right?
 

SpoonJuly

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2018
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#95
You're actually saying the recorded words of the early church fathers are fake.

Anything to keep 'once saved always saved' alive, right?
Eternal security (OSAS) was taught by Jesus and all the Apostles. Recorded in the Scriptures.
So call church fathers are the origin of your false gospel.
All history recorded my man (not in the Scripture) is slanted to support personal beliefs.
So yes, what is recorded by the early church fathers, that you put so much stock in, I take with suspect.
I do not waste my time reading such slanted writings.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#96
Paul says they did have faith in Him:

"3Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?"-Galatians 3:3

"6I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ..."-Galatians 2:6

The Bible in no way supports your claim.

These are saved people who have the Spirit, and they are leaving their trust in Christ and turning to trust in the works of the law. But according to you no believer will ever leave because God never lets them down for there to be a reason for them to leave. So explain to us how God let the Galatians down giving them reason to fall away from faith and trust in Christ.
Yeah whatever, how could they be saved if they were not completed?

Again, keep thinking you can give god your bloody rags, and he will say enter. You will not like the results
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#97
You're actually saying the recorded words of the early church fathers are fake.
No they are not fake, but neither are they Scripture. While much in their writings is sound and edifying, the ECF also introduced many errors into the churches, and they became equivalent to Bible truth. Of course, for Catholics and Orthodox, these writings are at the same level as Scripture (if not a bit higher when it comes to disputed doctrines and practices).

It may have been Justin Martyr (2nd century) who originated the idea of baptismal regeneration, but since then it became dogma. But is it taught in Scripture?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#98
I do have faith that God will complete what he started. That's why it will be completed in me. Because I continue to believe that. I trust him to do that. And I continue to trust him to do that.
I have no fleshly ability to keep trusting God.
If you stop trusting in God's sure work on your behalf that is when you lose the benefit of God's sure work on your behalf.
I have no fleshly ability to keep trusting God.
Double double speak speak :eek: But I am not really surprised :p
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
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#99
Not sure about going to heaven.. But i will be spending eternity with my LORD Jesus where ever that may be. :)
Jesus is right here, AT MY HOUSE... you're welcome to come over any time.

To be honest he has this whole weird "omnipresent" thing going on, so you might be able to catch him someplace closer, but you're still welcome to come over.

BTW, when I said you were welcome to come over I didn't mean for eternity.
I know you want to be with Jesus for eternity, and that's great, but I was just thinking about lunch.


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Ralph-

Guest
Yeah whatever, how could they be saved if they were not completed?

Again, keep thinking you can give god your bloody rags, and he will say enter. You will not like the results
You can't just blow it off. The Galatians are saved people in danger of making themselves slaves of the old covenant. Slaves who are not heirs of the promise. They will lose the inheritance they have if they go back to the law for justification and away from Jesus.


"now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? 10You observe days and months and seasons and years (for justification).

30But what does the Scripture say?
“CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON,
FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN.”

31So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman (come back to your senses)."

Galatians 4:9-10,30-31



The sacrifice of Jesus, eternal life, the Holy Spirit........they lose it all if they persist in their sin and don't come back to their senses and back to the blood by which they were sanctified. Like the Hebrew church, they are trampling on the blood of the covenant by which they were sanctified making themselves enemies of God with nothing to look forward to but destruction along with the enemies of God:


"10By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

23Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful

26For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.


29How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know Him who said, “VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY.”

Hebrews 10:.10,23,26,29-30



It's right here under our noses but the church can't see it. That's how powerful the deceit about once saved always saved is at this time in the church history. It's the ear tickling doctrine of the end times. IMO, it will win in fulfillment of the prophecy about the falling away that occurs before Christ returns.