WOF is Heresy & Should be Avoided at all Costs!
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There will always be people that take the truths of God's word and go off in the ditch in them as the enemy can use these very blessings to be a stumbling block to people.
The truth is God is not opposed to His children "having things" but He is opposed to "things having" His children.
We hear in God's word that the Lord wants to bless us so that we can be a blessing to others and then some other people take that truth and go off on a tangent with it and start ordering up "Mercedes" by trying to "faith them in". These kinds are still in their pampers and they think they can ( spiritually ) drive a Mercedes now.
Does God give some people Mercedes or whatever? Of course He does but not to babies.
Christians can be saved for 50 years. pastor a church for 40 years, pray 5 hours a day, go to church every time the doors are open, read and write fluent Greek and Hebrew, can quote by memory half of the NT, give all their money to the poor - and still be a baby Christian.
What makes a believer grow up in Christ is their understanding in the gift/word of righteousness of Christ as Hebrews 5:11-14 talks about. Being established in knowing who we are in Christ and in His gift of righteousness is how we grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord.
Grace "reigns" through righteousness - Romans 5:21
Most Christians couldn't handle wealth given to them by God because they are spiritually too young to use it properly but this still does not negate the truth that God wants His children blessed so that they can be a blessing to others. It's the way of the kingdom of God within us. It's the Lord's very nature in manifestation.
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P
I was in WOF for less than a year. My wife didn't leave for another 15 years. We constantly argued. I knew some things were not right.
Then,I took you guys approach. I demonized them.
When we moved to Florida,it was strictly for the brownsville revival.
Probably the smartest thing I did in my entire life.
Only one problem. I had zero faith. Thats the by-product of attacking another's mantle.
In the midst of revival,there were intense powerful demonic attacks. Satan hated the revival,and folks like me were easy targets.
When my daughter ran away to some satanists,I fell completely apart. Whined to God day and night. Then some WOF people came by one day. They dropped off Hagins' "10steps when faith seems weak,and victory lost" It did help a little,but I did not "get it".
About a week into the blubbering whine,I was walking through my shop towards the front. Crying,"jesus please,please help me"
Now heaven answered. "STOP THAT! NOW CALL OUT MY NAME IN FAITH"
So,I did.
ALL HEAVEN CAME DOWN ON ME.
Jesus told me directly "you do not have victory because things are going right or wrong,YOU HAVE VICTORY BECAUSE I SAY SO"
Immediately I saw what happened. My attacking destroyed my faith.
To this day,I ride that wave. To this day,I see the power of confession,and the ever powerful word applied,works every time.
Ironic,the ones I demonised were the ones that came by to help. It warnt the baptists,the lutherans,the catholics.
It was WOFers. I still call that couple,and they call me,even though we are a thousand miles apart.
BTW,Brownsville also demonized them. I saw the same harvest come their way. It is called the law of reciprocity.
Then,I took you guys approach. I demonized them.
When we moved to Florida,it was strictly for the brownsville revival.
Probably the smartest thing I did in my entire life.
Only one problem. I had zero faith. Thats the by-product of attacking another's mantle.
In the midst of revival,there were intense powerful demonic attacks. Satan hated the revival,and folks like me were easy targets.
When my daughter ran away to some satanists,I fell completely apart. Whined to God day and night. Then some WOF people came by one day. They dropped off Hagins' "10steps when faith seems weak,and victory lost" It did help a little,but I did not "get it".
About a week into the blubbering whine,I was walking through my shop towards the front. Crying,"jesus please,please help me"
Now heaven answered. "STOP THAT! NOW CALL OUT MY NAME IN FAITH"
So,I did.
ALL HEAVEN CAME DOWN ON ME.
Jesus told me directly "you do not have victory because things are going right or wrong,YOU HAVE VICTORY BECAUSE I SAY SO"
Immediately I saw what happened. My attacking destroyed my faith.
To this day,I ride that wave. To this day,I see the power of confession,and the ever powerful word applied,works every time.
Ironic,the ones I demonised were the ones that came by to help. It warnt the baptists,the lutherans,the catholics.
It was WOFers. I still call that couple,and they call me,even though we are a thousand miles apart.
BTW,Brownsville also demonized them. I saw the same harvest come their way. It is called the law of reciprocity.
I wish we could talk about the power of the cross and love in the believer.
What speaks to me that some here are not answering the theology expressed here and saying it is heresy, they are implying it is true. To stand and say you need discernment but not addressing the theology is approving the theology and saying though it appears odd the accusers are really full of malice and hatred.
It is why my heart goes, we are not of the same position, yet the impression is we are. People make things for many different reasons, but the content may well be true. The biggest truths of how you come across are from your enemies not your friends, which is one reason why loving your enemies is also great wisdom.
One sure sign you have lost the plot is when you cannot listen anymore to what different people are sharing.
For many the idea people might believe things differently to them is just too challenging, which probably means they prefer delusion over the Lord.
What speaks to me that some here are not answering the theology expressed here and saying it is heresy, they are implying it is true. To stand and say you need discernment but not addressing the theology is approving the theology and saying though it appears odd the accusers are really full of malice and hatred.
It is why my heart goes, we are not of the same position, yet the impression is we are. People make things for many different reasons, but the content may well be true. The biggest truths of how you come across are from your enemies not your friends, which is one reason why loving your enemies is also great wisdom.
One sure sign you have lost the plot is when you cannot listen anymore to what different people are sharing.
For many the idea people might believe things differently to them is just too challenging, which probably means they prefer delusion over the Lord.
P
Smith Wigglesworth;
"“There are times when there seems to be a stone wall in front of us. There are times when there are no feelings. There are times when everything seems as black as midnight, and there is nothing left by confidence in God. What you must do is have the devotion and confidence to believe that He will not fail, and cannot fail. You will never get anywhere if you depend on your feelings. There is something a thousand times better than feelings, and it is the powerful Word of God. There is a divine revelation within you that came when you were born from above, and this is real faith. To be born into the new kingdom is to be born into a new faith.”
"“There are times when there seems to be a stone wall in front of us. There are times when there are no feelings. There are times when everything seems as black as midnight, and there is nothing left by confidence in God. What you must do is have the devotion and confidence to believe that He will not fail, and cannot fail. You will never get anywhere if you depend on your feelings. There is something a thousand times better than feelings, and it is the powerful Word of God. There is a divine revelation within you that came when you were born from above, and this is real faith. To be born into the new kingdom is to be born into a new faith.”
P
the guy you are promoting twists 1 cor 13.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
Your testimony makes me realise, there is truth everywhere and the Lord uses many different situations for His purposes. Most of the time the people involved have no clue about the theology, rather are interested in meeting God.
We are called to call out to God with pure righteous hearts knowing He will answer.
It seems to often go wrong when we put too many conditions around this and end up not seeing what the Lord is doing and want it only to be "right" rather than see lives changed by His gospel. It is why I have often found blessing even when I know I do not agree theologically with those around. I get the impression the Lord meets us, and then we need to change, not we change so He meets us. A lot of people get confused that the Lord moves because they are in the right place, rather the Lord moves because they called, but unless action follows it often evaporates.
We are called to call out to God with pure righteous hearts knowing He will answer.
It seems to often go wrong when we put too many conditions around this and end up not seeing what the Lord is doing and want it only to be "right" rather than see lives changed by His gospel. It is why I have often found blessing even when I know I do not agree theologically with those around. I get the impression the Lord meets us, and then we need to change, not we change so He meets us. A lot of people get confused that the Lord moves because they are in the right place, rather the Lord moves because they called, but unless action follows it often evaporates.
The trouble is all the people saying you should not say negative things like this thread are all the people who support this theology. Now I would have more respect if they opposed it and criticised the way it was being addressed.
Grace7x77 is quite happy to post items saying legalists should be rooted out of the church and they are evil, while coming here and claiming innocense. This is hypocritical.
The theological points made about Jesus going into hell, being born again, the first of the sons of God, is extended to we are all Christs, messiahs in our own right. This is a form of blasphemy, but these supports of these very positions are saying, do not bring this out or show it, that is evil and wrong. No what they are doing is evil and wrong, and those who support it are saying they are the same. Wolves in sheeps clothing fits like a glove, and you see it when you see what and how they support.
To be honest Macather and his support for total inability doctrines and sex is evil are wrong. I would also agree with people pointing these things out and discussing them. Too often things are just accepted and not talked through.
Is Todd Bentley leading a revival while commiting adultery and ending up divorcing his wife and marrying his lover?
Is that a sign of a man of God, or a fake? Many would still say Todd is very blessed drop kicking people into healing.
With this kind of spirituality, we do not need to be slandered or have things made up about us, we have no clue what morality and walking in righteousness is? Why should the world listen to a church that no longer cares?
Because it is not Jesus's church but this fringe mystical, anything remotely spiritual must be of God and not fake or a complete fraud!!!
Grace7x77 is quite happy to post items saying legalists should be rooted out of the church and they are evil, while coming here and claiming innocense. This is hypocritical.
The theological points made about Jesus going into hell, being born again, the first of the sons of God, is extended to we are all Christs, messiahs in our own right. This is a form of blasphemy, but these supports of these very positions are saying, do not bring this out or show it, that is evil and wrong. No what they are doing is evil and wrong, and those who support it are saying they are the same. Wolves in sheeps clothing fits like a glove, and you see it when you see what and how they support.
To be honest Macather and his support for total inability doctrines and sex is evil are wrong. I would also agree with people pointing these things out and discussing them. Too often things are just accepted and not talked through.
Is Todd Bentley leading a revival while commiting adultery and ending up divorcing his wife and marrying his lover?
Is that a sign of a man of God, or a fake? Many would still say Todd is very blessed drop kicking people into healing.
With this kind of spirituality, we do not need to be slandered or have things made up about us, we have no clue what morality and walking in righteousness is? Why should the world listen to a church that no longer cares?
Because it is not Jesus's church but this fringe mystical, anything remotely spiritual must be of God and not fake or a complete fraud!!!
Peter, Peter...my goodness man..where in the world do you get these ridiculous thoughts from as highlighted in green above? Show me with a link to a post where I have said this. Thank you! I appreciate it.
If you cannot show this statement is true..now hopefully you will understand why I try to limit my interaction with you to as little as possible.
God bless you.....I believe you mean well....
If you cannot show this statement is true..now hopefully you will understand why I try to limit my interaction with you to as little as possible.
God bless you.....I believe you mean well....
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Peter, Peter...my goodness man..where in the world do you get these ridiculous thoughts from as highlighted in green above? Show me with a link to a post where I have said this. Thank you! I appreciate it.
If you cannot show this statement is true..now hopefully you will understand why I try to limit my interaction with you to as little as possible.
God bless you.....I believe you mean well....
If you cannot show this statement is true..now hopefully you will understand why I try to limit my interaction with you to as little as possible.
God bless you.....I believe you mean well....
If you cannot show this statement is true..now hopefully you will understand why I try to limit my interaction with you to as little as possible.
God bless you.....I believe you mean well....
Maybe you live in this holy glow where all you think you do is full of blessing for other people.
I remember you denying talking about the Lords prayer not being for christians after promoting the guy from Holand who preached exactly that. You went to his conference and believed he was blessed. You then went on to say you did not agree with all he said. You are such a two faced person I have zero respect for you, and are the principle instigator of slander and animosity against anyone who points out the truth about heretics like yourself.
The only difference between them and you, is you use them to say the words you believe. But that just means you have no integrity or putting what you believe on the line. It is like being a propogandist dodging the flak while pushing the agenda.
I avoid 100% interaction with you, and it should be obvious why, because you are to two faced.
And if I produced the posts in question, you would dream up some other excuse, because truth and honesty mean zero to you, like accusing me of lying. So you are the liar, the fraud, the inventor of these positions and its propogater.
And those who support your positions behave in exactly the same way following your example. Great witness that.
And you think the Lord sits by and just ignores this kind of stuff. Why is it you feel it is a good idea to fight this warefare when you actually believe there is no choice in the believer for salvation? You are so screwed up, you actually do not know whether you are coming or going. Just remember there is a place of reconning and repentance, and there you will find the real meaning of these words which you believe so strongly are used incorrectly by 99% of christians.
Ok..so..in real life - there is no proof that I said all legalists themselves are evil and should be rooted out of the church.
Peter I really do encourage you to seek the Lord and His grace will give you a hope that well not disappoint you. He loves you deeply and has wonderful plans for your well-being and life for your family!
"I am on a mission.
To confront people who teach a false gospel of works. and make it known to the world not to follow them.
To wipe out legalism in the church, because it has caused so many people to walk away from God. or not even Give God a second look (please note. Legalism is different from obedience, they are not the same)
If your one of them (I still can not know because you refuse to answer. But I am prety sure I know) then I will continue
Or you could just answer the question and we can settle this right here.
Again, the whole world sees you sidestepping the issue, The only one you are fooling is yourself and your buddies"
The above is a quote which Grace7x77 and the others in the hyper-grace came where happy to support.
The term the spirit of Jezebel is often used though not here.
I do not honestly know if they have changed their version of this, but I can dig up some more. What I find amazing is how they write this kind of stuff and then deny they said or held to it. I simply call this lying. And I am accused of lying, yet when putting forward their very claims of faith etc. they repeat the same beliefs. Consistently they rewrite what we point out and see something different, and then get confused. So I suppose these issues and approach will not end, because it is part of their DNA. Empathy is not their approach, rather deprogramming or real speak, brain washing, because their delusions make more sense than reality.
To confront people who teach a false gospel of works. and make it known to the world not to follow them.
To wipe out legalism in the church, because it has caused so many people to walk away from God. or not even Give God a second look (please note. Legalism is different from obedience, they are not the same)
If your one of them (I still can not know because you refuse to answer. But I am prety sure I know) then I will continue
Or you could just answer the question and we can settle this right here.
Again, the whole world sees you sidestepping the issue, The only one you are fooling is yourself and your buddies"
The above is a quote which Grace7x77 and the others in the hyper-grace came where happy to support.
The term the spirit of Jezebel is often used though not here.
I do not honestly know if they have changed their version of this, but I can dig up some more. What I find amazing is how they write this kind of stuff and then deny they said or held to it. I simply call this lying. And I am accused of lying, yet when putting forward their very claims of faith etc. they repeat the same beliefs. Consistently they rewrite what we point out and see something different, and then get confused. So I suppose these issues and approach will not end, because it is part of their DNA. Empathy is not their approach, rather deprogramming or real speak, brain washing, because their delusions make more sense than reality.
Show the post reference....did some one in CC say they were on a mission?
Peter ... you cannot support your accusations that I said all legalists are evil and should be thrown out of the church ( as I have said..we all have some sort of a Pharisee in us so we would have no church left if we threw ourselves out of it )
I am asking you kindly to please stop as it serves no real purpose and it could get you in trouble with the administration here if you persist. I do not want that to happen to you.
Most charismatics and WOF-ers want nothing to do with Bentley. That guy who helped him, Rick Joyner, said on his website himself that he was a Knight of Malta.
I warned my brother to not watch him since I read Bentley himself who said he went out of his body when he met the healing angel from Branham. Doesn't sound kosher.
I warned my brother to not watch him since I read Bentley himself who said he went out of his body when he met the healing angel from Branham. Doesn't sound kosher.
This is what I find very confusing. One of the churches I used to go to got into Benny Hinn etc. portals, and everything, yet now some say they are not involved. I wrote to the pastor, and he is still preaching on the same platform as these guys. It is like the feeling they get makes what is said ok, even if heretical. It is the broad road, where if you sing choruses that other christians sing, lift your hands in praise, what is preached must be ok. Or falling to the floor laughing you head off is ok, of barking like a dog etc. or gold dust, or gems from angels, or many many other crazy ideas.
The reference points have just gone along with the integrity. It is enough to just suggest someone is not speaking of the Lord to suddenly find you have been "called out". This leads to bullying and all the tactics of the world to control.
So many threads on Joyce, Joseph Prince, and it all ends the same way. Do not disuss the heresy or problems, they are christians so how dare you suggest they are heretical. It should be the other way around. They are christians because they teach correct understanding and theology. That is Jesus's way, you prove your platform through experience, not you are accepted because someone else says you are ok. But then I would say too many have proven they are also heretics here, yet many accept them while they push this heresy.
The reference points have just gone along with the integrity. It is enough to just suggest someone is not speaking of the Lord to suddenly find you have been "called out". This leads to bullying and all the tactics of the world to control.
So many threads on Joyce, Joseph Prince, and it all ends the same way. Do not disuss the heresy or problems, they are christians so how dare you suggest they are heretical. It should be the other way around. They are christians because they teach correct understanding and theology. That is Jesus's way, you prove your platform through experience, not you are accepted because someone else says you are ok. But then I would say too many have proven they are also heretics here, yet many accept them while they push this heresy.
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