Women and teaching in the church

[oldhermit]

I do not imply, I say what I think scripture tells us. I say straight out that I think we have to look at all scriptures to see the roles that women are to have. Where I feel you need correction is in your telling women all they may not do according to your interpretation of scripture, and you are saying absolutely nothing of the vital role that God asks women to play. I am saying straight out this is what I see you doing. If you put equal importance in all scripture, you would not do this. You tell me I imply women have to preach. I did not imply that, I don't imply.

That is not the focus of this thread RT. The focus of this thread is women and teaching in the Church. The OP asked specifically for those passage that address this issue. I do not dismiss the value of women's roles in the Church but, I will not recognize roles that they are directly forbidden to assume. No matter how one attempts to justify a woman assuming these roles they can never do so in light of these texts.

I do say, straight out, that if there is no man who will step up to the task, then God wants women to do it. It was true of Debra, when she became a judge. It is true of a lady in our church teaching Old Testament.

Using Debora as justification for overturning the prohibitions of 1 Cor. 14 and 2Tim. 2 simply will not stand up. Paul even establishes the standard by which this prohibition was to be compared. "The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law ALSO says." Do you honestly believe that those Christians of the first century would have any misunderstanding about the strength of this prohibition since it was compared to the same prohibition of women who were under the Law of Moses?

 

[oldhermit]

Good Lord! OldHermit, that is very cool stuff you've gotten there. Where did you learn all this? Did God reveal it to you? I read, re-read Rule 1, which sounds like something Geisler would say back when he was "normal" LOL.

This was just something I wrote when I was doing my post grad work for a professor who was looking for a way to explain the concept of punctuated logic as the three laws would apply to the reading of scripture.

 

[BananaPie]

You may want to ask your mighty man of valor, why he forgot to instruct you, that Overseer in the Greek is not PASTOR its BISHOP, which is not a pastor and the word Pastor never shows up in the New Testament, only the word Pastors and then its only once. The word Pastors shows up in all of the Bible only 9x and its never gender specific.

Buddy,

Please be kind to all of us here, for we have no animosity towards you. We have spoken to you in all gladness and in truthfulness. This is a conversation. That's it.

If you don't like me, you are very welcome to place me on your ignore list.

Now, as for the 'overseer' statement, regardless of how that Greek word translates into English, or Spanish, Italian, for that matter, the truth remains that the position of leadership over the church of God has been granted to Males, not females. That's it.

As for the word 'pastor' or 'pastors,' this may not show in English, for the English language is not gender specific as are Hebrew, Greek, Latin, Spanish, Italian, French, etc. In Spanish, for example, we literally say, "she spoon," "he folk" for the English "the spoon," and "the folk."

Similarly, words like "policeman," "fireman," "mailman," in Spanish are all assigned to a male role "el policia," "el bombero," "el cartero." Consequently, in Spanish, the word "pastor" is also assigned a male role: "el pastor."

All you English speakers, frankly, need to get a hold of yourselves when you argue splitting words you don't understand in your native tongue, let alone Koine Greek...

God is not limited to English speakers, frankly. As a testimony to how Awesome our God is, allow me to boast in my Lord Jesus: my grandmother never spoke English. She came to the salvation of Jesus Christ by reading the Bible in Italian, and her mother (my great-grandmother) came to the knowledge & salvation of Christ by reading the Latin Vulgate, although her husband and her were Reformed Baptists.

My mother, my sister and I, on the other hand, came to the Lord by hearing the Gospel in Spanish. I have read the Bible in old Castilian since elementary school and continue to do so to this day. My children, however, read the English NKJV or the NASB.

Do you see how beautiful the power of God is from generation to generation to usher whosoever will into His Kingdom?

 

[The_highwayman]

Buddy,

Please be kind to all of us here, for we have no animosity towards you. We have spoken to you in all gladness and in truthfulness. This is a conversation. That's it.

If you don't like me, you are very welcome to place me on your ignore list.

Now, as for the 'overseer' statement, regardless of how that Greek word translates into English, or Spanish, Italian, for that matter, the truth remains that the position of leadership over the church of God has been granted to Males, not females. That's it.

As for the word 'pastor' or 'pastors,' this may not show in English, for the English language is not gender specific as are Hebrew, Greek, Latin, Spanish, Italian, French, etc. In Spanish, for example, we literally say, "she spoon," "he folk" for the English "the spoon," and "the folk."

Similarly, words like "policeman," "fireman," "mailman," in Spanish are all assigned to a male role "el policia," "el bombero," "el cartero." Consequently, in Spanish, the word "pastor" is also assigned a male role: "el pastor."

All you English speakers, frankly, need to get a hold of yourselves when you argue splitting words you don't understand in your native tongue, let alone Koine Greek...

God is not limited to English speakers, frankly. As a testimony to how Awesome our God is, allow me to boast in my Lord Jesus: my grandmother never spoke English. She came to the salvation of Jesus Christ by reading the Bible in Italian, and her mother (my great-grandmother) came to the knowledge & salvation of Christ by reading the Latin Vulgate, although her husband and her were Reformed Baptists.

My mother, my sister and I, on the other hand, came to the Lord by hearing the Gospel in Spanish. I have read the Bible in old Castilian since elementary school and continue to do so to this day. My children, however, read the English NKJV or the NASB.

Do you see how beautiful the power of God is from generation to generation to usher whosoever will into His Kingdom?

If I did not know any better I would think a woman is attempting to teach a man something about the Bible.

 

[zone]

Hi folks. Lots of drama in here.

there was drama?
i missed it?

come on!

 

[doulos]

A point I keep seeing raised is that these are Paul’s opinions on this subject but God never gave these instructions. Consider the following.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

If Paul’s thoughts on a subject are included in Scripture then either they were inspired by God or the above verse is in error. We know the verse quoted above is not in error, so I think it would be best to follow the instructions given by the inspiration of God delivered through Paul as recorded in the Scriptures.


And for those who say those instructions are for a certain time or culture please consider the following.
1Cor 1:1-2 Paul, called to be an apostle of JesusChrist through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother, Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, calledto be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

If the things spoken of to the church of Corinth was only for the church because of time and culture why is the letter also addressed “to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord”? Aren’t todays believers (saints) included in that group? So was it really cultural? Man’s culture may change but God does not.
Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; thereforeye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day,and for ever.

May God bless your studies!

 

[oldhermit]

there was drama?
i missed it?

come on!

It is still all there in technicolor. Just go back and enjoy.

 

[The_highwayman]

Buddy,

Please be kind to all of us here, for we have no animosity towards you. We have spoken to you in all gladness and in truthfulness. This is a conversation. That's it.

If you don't like me, you are very welcome to place me on your ignore list.

Now, as for the 'overseer' statement, regardless of how that Greek word translates into English, or Spanish, Italian, for that matter, the truth remains that the position of leadership over the church of God has been granted to Males, not females. That's it.

As for the word 'pastor' or 'pastors,' this may not show in English, for the English language is not gender specific as are Hebrew, Greek, Latin, Spanish, Italian, French, etc. In Spanish, for example, we literally say, "she spoon," "he folk" for the English "the spoon," and "the folk."

Similarly, words like "policeman," "fireman," "mailman," in Spanish are all assigned to a male role "el policia," "el bombero," "el cartero." Consequently, in Spanish, the word "pastor" is also assigned a male role: "el pastor."

All you English speakers, frankly, need to get a hold of yourselves when you argue splitting words you don't understand in your native tongue, let alone Koine Greek...

God is not limited to English speakers, frankly. As a testimony to how Awesome our God is, allow me to boast in my Lord Jesus: my grandmother never spoke English. She came to the salvation of Jesus Christ by reading the Bible in Italian, and her mother (my great-grandmother) came to the knowledge & salvation of Christ by reading the Latin Vulgate, although her husband and her were Reformed Baptists.

My mother, my sister and I, on the other hand, came to the Lord by hearing the Gospel in Spanish. I have read the Bible in old Castilian since elementary school and continue to do so to this day. My children, however, read the English NKJV or the NASB.

Do you see how beautiful the power of God is from generation to generation to usher whosoever will into His Kingdom?

Last time and you wont, because you cannot...she me in black, white or red where it says a woman cannot be a pastor or preacher and in those exact words. Show me in the scriptures were women did not follow Jesus nor even financed his ministry along with the 12...show me in the Bible were women are regulated as gender neutral in the Kingdom...

 

[Isdaniel]

Last time and you wont, because you cannot...she me in black, white or red where it says a woman cannot be a pastor or preacher and in those exact words. Show me in the scriptures were women did not follow Jesus nor even financed his ministry along with the 12...show me in the Bible were women are regulated as gender neutral in the Kingdom...

Shew me where in black red or white it say christians are not to smoke hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[oldhermit]

This reminds me of the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. "They will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.”

 

[maxwel]

God is not limited to English speakers,

You sound like a crazy person.

We all know God speaks English...
American English.

: )

 

[alexis]

I'm not sure but in both 1Timothy and 2Timothy it seems fairly clear as to who should lead churches.

Where I am not clear is what about like a Sunday school lesson? That is teaching God's word but not leading the church. Now if I am confused about the word church in this scripture please explain that as well. Does it mean His Churchas in Christ's church or the church as the place we gather?

Love you all,
lexi

Also hermit if on please let me know what you think about women teaching Sunday school vs. leading worship

 

[Descyple]

The only thing that women should teach in church are mime classes!!!

Keep the noise down, Ladies!!!

 

[oldhermit]

I'm not sure but in both 1Timothy and 2Timothy it seems fairly clear as to who should lead churches.

Where I am not clear is what about like a Sunday school lesson? That is teaching God's word but not leading the church. Now if I am confused about the word church in this scripture please explain that as well. Does it mean His Churchas in Christ's church or the church as the place we gather?

Love you all,
lexi

Also hermit if on please let me know what you think about women teaching Sunday school vs. leading worship

The prohibition seems to be limited the teaching or even specking in the public assembly. As Paul admonishes, they are not even permitted to ask questions but, to wait until they get home and ask their men. The are forbidden to assume any role of leadership in the Church. As far as the classroom situation is concerned, the older women are instructed to teach the younger women to "be reverent in their behavior, not malicious gossips nor enslaved to much wine, teaching what is good, so that they may encourage the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, so that the word of God will not be dishonored." Titus 2:3-5. These are things an older and more experienced woman is more qualified to do than any man.

 

[RuthHannah]

The prohibition seems to be limited the teaching or even specking in the public assembly. As Paul admonishes, they are not even permitted to ask questions but, to wait until they get home and ask their men. The are forbidden to assume any role of leadership in the Church. As far as the classroom situation is concerned, the older women are instructed to teach the younger women to "be reverent in their behavior, not malicious gossips nor enslaved to much wine, teaching what is good, so that they may encourage the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, so that the word of God will not be dishonored." Titus 2:3-5. These are things an older and more experienced woman is more qualified to do than any man.

What happens if the pastor finishes preach and ask if there are any question , Can a woman ask questions then or to wait until she reaches home ?

 

[The_highwayman]

This was just something I wrote when I was doing my post grad work for a professor who was looking for a way to explain the concept of punctuated logic as the three laws would apply to the reading of scripture.

Believing 100% in 1 Cor 2 would have saved you a lot of time and effort and ironically pokes a big hole in your theory on how to read the scripture and how things are revealed to man and honestly sir, your little piece here is false teaching at it's finest...1 cor 2 and other scriptures tell us without all your intellectualism how to read the scriptures.

I guess you also believe the parables of Jesus are fodder as well, because they are all taught with cultural significance....

I will apologize I engaged you at all. had you put this personal manifesto out there to begin with I would have simply ignored you to begin with.

 

[oldhermit]

I would have simply ignored you to begin with.

Please, do not feel that it is too late.

 

[zone]

It is still all there in technicolor. Just go back and enjoy.

i got distracted looking at veils and headcoverings.
so many beautiful colors and designs.



so much shopping, so little time.

 

[zone]

You sound like a crazy person.

We all know God speaks English...
American English.

: )

nooooo......Middle English.

thee and thous.

 

[oldhermit]

What happens if the pastor finishes preach and ask if there are any question , Can a woman ask questions then or to wait until she reaches home ?

What does the text say? I am not the authority.