Women as Preachers: Does God's word authorize this???

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MEN & WOMEN: Agree or disagree with women preaching & leading in churches.


  • Total voters
    37
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Closemyeyes2cU

Guest
No killing is the same as murdering. Intentionally killing, is murder. There is no justification for murder. People were stoned out of ignorance. Or people's sins were 'stoned'. You don't kill anyone.
Numbers 15:30-36

30 But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
31 Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.
32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.
 
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edward99

Guest
No killing is the same as murdering. Intentionally killing, is murder. There is no justification for murder. People were stoned out of ignorance. Or people's sins were 'stoned'. You don't kill anyone.
They were, Mediate. They just were.
The Law is severe. All the more reason to be on our knees because in due time, Grace and Truth came through Jesus Christ.
 
Dec 14, 2009
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So it's okay in some cases? Even though killing another human being is a sin, it's okay in some cases? In some cases, for instance, if a woman is unfaithful to her husband? That is bullplop. Jesus didn't tell everyone to stone the unfaithful woman to death.

Nor did he condone the killing of anybody. Jesus came and showed people what all the laws really meant cause people are blind most of the time.

You know fine-well that the Pharisees legalism was something Jesus despised. The rituals that are meaningless. The laws that make no sense. If there is a reason 'why', to a law. And it fits with what Jesus taught, it's usually the right way to take it.

Stoning someone to death has no place in what Jesus taught or in the example he led by. He never so much as struck someone no matter how sinful they were. 'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone'. (Let the person who is blameless be the judge). In other words, we all sin. If we all stoned each other to death there'd be nobody left. If sin is sin, as God says, and no sin is greater than another, then why is one sin deserving of stoning and another not? This makes no sense. Therefore it must be to do with judging. That and of course, The part of the bible law that we are not to kill. Kind of obvious.
 
Dec 14, 2009
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Even in the days of Moses judging each other and casting stones was frowned upon. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind and this is something people don't get. If in the days of Moses, man was supposed to beat each other for their sins, how does this tie in with the Commandments that were brought to them?? How does a god who wants order, tell all his followers to strike each other?? Judaism, (and Hebrew in general) is full of hyperbole. Full of it.

Do you think God said 'thou shalt not kill/murder . . except when . . .' . . If that was the case, the commandments which were meant to bring peace, were pointless to do so.
 
Dec 14, 2009
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This is crazy, crazy stuff. To think that one is so much more righteous than another that they are to be allowed to stone someone else to death and commit murder in the process without reprieve. Absolutely ludacris . .
 
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Closemyeyes2cU

Guest
Jesus taught or in the example he led by. He never so much as struck someone no matter how sinful they were.
I think you mistake Jesus's kindness for weakness

Joh 2:13 And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem,
Joh 2:14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:
Joh 2:15 And when he had made a scourge (whip) of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
 
Dec 14, 2009
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And does it say He hit them with it?
 
Dec 14, 2009
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No you mistake violence for righteous anger.
 
Dec 14, 2009
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Violence is so many times frowned upon in any form in the Bible.
 
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edward99

Guest
Even in the days of Moses judging each other and casting stones was frowned upon. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind and this is something people don't get. If in the days of Moses, man was supposed to beat each other for their sins, how does this tie in with the Commandments that were brought to them?? How does a god who wants order, tell all his followers to strike each other?? Judaism, (and Hebrew in general) is full of hyperbole. Full of it.

Do you think God said 'thou shalt not kill/murder . . except when . . .' . . If that was the case, the commandments which were meant to bring peace, were pointless to do so.
Romans 7
1Or do you not know, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives? 2For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. 3So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man.

4Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. 6But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

7What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “YOU SHALL NOT COVET.” 8But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead. 9I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; 10and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me; 11for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. 12So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

13Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.

The Conflict of Two Natures

14For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 18For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

21I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 24Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? 25Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

Romans 8
Deliverance from Bondage

1Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. 10If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

12So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh— 13for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” 16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, 17and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

18For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. 20For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. 23And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body. 24For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees? 25But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it.

Our Victory in Christ

26In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; 27and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

28And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

31What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 32He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things? 33Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies; 34who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. 35Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36Just as it is written,
“FOR YOUR SAKE WE ARE BEING PUT TO DEATH ALL DAY LONG;
WE WERE CONSIDERED AS SHEEP TO BE SLAUGHTERED.”

37But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
Dec 14, 2009
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I have not read the wall of text, but I'd just like to pose the question, would you personally use physical force and violent punishment?
 
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Crossfire

Guest
I would much rather have a woman behind the pulpit who subjects herself to spiritual authority than a homosexual of any sorts. I find it odd that some would claim women women preachers are false prophets when their own denomination endorses homosexuality (pastors, marriages, etc.).
 
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Closemyeyes2cU

Guest
I would much rather have a woman behind the pulpit who subjects herself to spiritual authority than a homosexual of any sorts. I find it odd that some would claim women women preachers are false prophets when their own denomination endorses homosexuality (pastors, marriages, etc.).
The problem is when you see churches allowing females to preach, the homosexual preachers usually aren't far behind.
 
Jul 29, 2012
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The question is do you feel the Holy Spirit move when this person teaches?? Do you feel the Lord Jesus Christ Present? If so then it doesn't matter who is giving the word if not then you need to find another church.
 
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Crossfire

Guest
And does it say He hit them with it?
No, the bible does not say a word supporting the notion that Jesus actually hit people with that cord rather, it appears that he used it to scatter the animals. Of course, I'm sure the people were startled as well. :)
 
Dec 14, 2009
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So the physical voilation and act of tearing another's flesh is sanctified because the sin of striking another person in that matter, is committed so that another sin can be gone.

That sounds like Jesus' logic to me . . . . . :S not.
 
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Crossfire

Guest
The problem is when you see churches allowing females to preach, the homosexual preachers usually aren't far behind.
Actually, your comment could not be more inaccurate. Historically speaking, the churches which are embracing homosexual pastors and clergy are Lutheran and Calvinistic in origin, neither of which allow female pastors and clergy that I'm aware of. However, the denominations which tend to allow female pastor and clergy are Methodist & Wesleyan in origin and they are absolutely dead set against homosexual pastors & marriage.

The denominations which seem to be embracing homosexual pastors and marriages are those who believe and teach that one can be free from sin while still enslaved by it.


 
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Closemyeyes2cU

Guest
Actually, your comment could not be more inaccurate. Historically speaking, the churches which are embracing homosexual pastors and clergy are Lutheran and Calvinistic in origin, neither of which allow female pastors and clergy that I'm aware of. However, the denominations which tend to allow female pastor and clergy are Methodist & Wesleyan in origin and they are absolutely dead set against homosexual pastors & marriage.

The denominations which seem to be embracing homosexual pastors and marriages are those who believe and teach that one can be free from sin while still enslaved by it.


All I know is that in the last century we have seen a huge increase in female pastors and a huge increase in openly gay pastors.
 
Dec 14, 2009
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This is what I see, for all mankind:

We were created as man. Man was lonely, and woman was created out of man. We were created naked, unblemished, and un-knowing of the concept of sin. We were to love and respect one-another in both our own roles. There was no evil that man knew. Only what word God had spoken to them. We were only given one instruction that we may not do. We could not eat from the tree of the knowledge of sin and death. We were immortal and perfect. We had no desire to kill. No desire for hatred, or for malice. Or even for clothes. God was there. And He was looking after us. Whatever we needed, we would have. Whatever we asked God for, we could have. God WAS our only knowledge. All else was emotion. We KNEW instinctively what was perfect, because we were created that way. We WERE perfect.

But iniquity was found in us when we were deceived. We decided to take our knowledge from firstly Satan, and then from ourselves (Eve), instead of from God. From what we were told. From the perfect hearts that God had provided us. This was because of our inquisitiveness. Because of our desire for more. Because maybe, we might get what is better than what God has already given us.

We were cast into the wilderness with our knowledge of sin and death. (We were now more ignorant of God's word than we were at the start. Because of our corruption, we now had the ability, in all our thoughts and actions, to be doing wrong). We did more wrong. And were more separated from Him.

There is a difference between perfecting oneself as blameless, and striking another for not being so. God never said, 'Adam, strike Eve for her sin'. He gave them both consequences, but never did He tell them to act out punishment on one another. They are still to love each other and look toward perfecting themselves. If we think of every person like that. To fix ourselves before others, there would be no need for punishments.