Women as Preachers: Does God's word authorize this???

[GreenNnice]

perhaps Greenie but don't forget this part..."but older men need to teach younger men how to be men of God..."

And, I have proof that God used Deborah in Judges, women were said by Paul they COULD prophesy with their heads uncovered, 1 Timothy 2:12 refers to husband and wife and not just a man and woman, 1 Cor. Also states 14:34,35, women to be submissive but in no way speaks of women NOT able to preach AND teach in church.

There is NO scripture that speaks of women not allowed to preach AND teach men in church !

Just because a woman preaches, or teaches, WHY do you think this is lording authority over a man??

It is, in fact, just the opposite, as The Lord surely leads, The God-annointed woman pastor, is blessing MEN


Why do you ADD what is not in scripture, yahtru? You do. Why do you ?

Women pastors ALL over the world are Holy Spirit led, why don't you look.at reality. God's reality

Green are you (like many others) willfully blind?

1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

And lets look at what he said just a few verses before that.

1Ti 2:7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

Are you? Are you naive enough to think the thousands of women that teach and preach today are all against God? Yes, teaching AND preaching to we MEN.

_______________()_____________
What do you have against women, really, and, whoever says all they dobis,'babble' excercises stupidity and hae NEVER heard (taken in) the words of Elizabeth Elliott.

You trying to tell me that lady has NOT been marvelously used by God????? Here's The real kicker: YOU trying to telll God He messed up allowing Elliott to write a bestselling book on purity, for women AND men to read?

This ^ SHOULD BE ^ the only proof needed, women pastors today, yesterday, ALL TIME, are led in their mininstries by God. And, quit nitpicking a,woman pastor here and there, they are all led by God. Are you REALLY naive enough to think ALL women pastors are FALSE TEACHERS?

C'mon, Christ peeps, WAKE UP ! Maybe over the weekend , eddie, eyeswideclosed, mediation, truyah, bea, you were held by another spirit(not of God), but God does not even have male and femsle in church, they are ONE in Christ. If YOU can teach, and, please pray of this, ladies, same for guys, as teaching will cause YOU greater judgment at 'the gate.' But, like Jonah, DON'T run The other way IF God calls you to teach an adult Sunday School class.


More proof, here are your said manna verses tyat you crux your belief on:


1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

This is speaking of a woman's subjection to her husband, either at home, or,, in church, maybe, as, yes, Paul does say he is 'a preacher and apostle,' and'speaking the truth in Christ and not lying,' and, a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth,' in verse 7.

The bottom line: A woman is to be in ALL subjection to her husband, in church, at home, wherever, and, of course, the man HAS the fear of God in him that he better treat his wife right,, and, yes, man 'fearing God' is scripture, go find it yourself if you don't believe me. Surely, if what I say does not resonate, what holy inspired word Paul used should (resonate with you).

'aner.'

This ^ is the Greek word that Paul used for 'man,' in verse 12 of 1 Timothy 2. This word means 'man,' but especially 'husband.'

So, IF Paul's words are effectively read, 1 Timothy 2:11-12 are speaking of a 'man and wife.'

Next, look at the next verses, Adam formed first then Eve, Eve deceived, she transgressed.
And, then, after these verses, 13,14, is verse 15 ,with so much telling knowledge in the 'subjects' of the vsentence.

1 Timothy 2:15 - Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, holiness, self control.

Does this 'subjects' relationship tell you that this 'man' and 'woman' in verses 11-12 is 'Adam' and 'Eve' in verses 13,14, and, ARE husband and wife in verse 15.

Therefore, this is NOT just any with 'all subjection' over a woman, it is the man who IS her husband !


Blind eyes, SEE, and, if your ears been deaf, I PRAY NOW, dear Lord, OPEN canals
to hear you speaking here, I pray, Lord, you are speaking through me to my dear brothers and sisters on this Truth of men and women EQUAL to receive and USE your spiritual gift manifestations, yes yes, let all wisdom be seen of You, precious Jesus, in your name, Lord Jesus God, may Your Spirit lead us all to Your Truth, halelujah, amen.


Christ peeps, God made man and women equals when it comes to preaching and teaching, using gifts of the Spirit, their body IS a temple of the Holy Spirit too, and, that means women, TOO, are led by our great marvelous God, just like....

......men.

 

[InstructorusRex]

That's not what I am doing. I am blaming the degradation of the family for the state of Society as I plainly explained. The degredation of family order.

So the "family order" is that men are superior to women?

You oppose the (minority) treatment of muslim women? As do I. You also must recognize that a large number of religious people (the women included) follow their religion through their own choice, not because men make them do it. Every woman in the USA (and UK) has a legal choice.

Of course many religious people follow their religion by choice. . .but then again these women have been told since childhood that they must do this because it is god's command. Self-made manacles are manacles nonetheless.

I am not 'taking what I like and ignoring anything else as hyperbole'. The ten commandments has one that says 'THOU SHALT NOT KILL'. Jesus has the commandments: Love God, and Love your neighbour. Where does stoning someone to death come into that?

I never claimed that moral guidelines in the bible were consistent. . .

If one looks properly at the Old Testament, and looks at Hebrew words, and goes to Judaism and asks what the interpretation is, it is not to literally stone someone to death.

Have you actually done this? Or are you just assuming it must be so because the alternative strikes you as morally reprehensible?

I know what I believe. And I know murder is wrong no matter what the justification is. As did Jesus.

Ahh, so you know better than god? God does, after all, order people to commit murder in the bible does he not? I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I'm just trying to get a handle on your views.

 

[InstructorusRex]

If I were projecting my cultural moral sense, you would be doing the same thing. So why even ask?

Of course I'm projecting my cultural moral sense - the difference is that I acknowledge that I'm doing it.

My moral sense comes from the morality of Jesus. Can you dispute anything that man ever did as oppressive??

That's a bit difficult seeing as I don't regard the gospels as particularly accurate. That is, however, probably too far off topic for this thread.

 

[Closemyeyes2cU]

Are you? Are you naive enough to think the thousands of women that teach and preach today are all against God? Yes, teaching AND preaching to we MEN. (Are you naive enough to think you know better than inspired scripture?)

_______________()_____________
What do you have against women, really, and, whoever says all they dobis,'babble' excercises stupidity and hae NEVER heard (taken in) the words of Elizabeth Elliott. (Once again you dont get it. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with men being better than women or having anything against women)

You trying to tell me that lady has NOT been marvelously used by God????? Here's The real kicker: YOU trying to telll God He messed up allowing Elliott to write a bestselling book on purity, for women AND men to read? (Of course God can use women and he does...just not as pastors in a church)

This ^ SHOULD BE ^ the only proof needed, women pastors today, yesterday, ALL TIME, are led in their mininstries by God. And, quit nitpicking a,woman pastor here and there, they are all led by God. Are you REALLY naive enough to think ALL women pastors are FALSE TEACHERS? ( This should be the only proof needed to prove that women should not be pastors but apparently scripture only has authority when it agrees with what you feel personally...1 Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.)

C'mon, Christ peeps, WAKE UP ! Maybe over the weekend , eddie, eyeswideclosed, mediation, truyah, bea, you were held by another spirit(not of God), but God does not even have male and femsle in church, they are ONE in Christ. If YOU can teach, and, please pray of this, ladies, same for guys, as teaching will cause YOU greater judgment at 'the gate.' But, like Jonah, DON'T run The other way IF God calls you to teach an adult Sunday School class. (Some "peeps" do need to wake up but I believe you are confused about which ones are asleep)



'aner.'

This ^ is the Greek word that Paul used for 'man,' in verse 12 of 1 Timothy 2. This word means 'man,' but especially 'husband.' This word is translated "men" or "man" 147 times. It is translated "husbands" or "husband" 44 times.

So, IF Paul's words are effectively read, 1 Timothy 2:11-12 are speaking of a 'man and wife.' Paul also uses the same greek word in verse 8. So I guess this only applies to husbands too? 8 I will therefore that men (aner) pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.

Next, look at the next verses, Adam formed first then Eve, Eve deceived, she transgressed.<--Dont overlook this. It applies to ALL women of ALL times married or not. That is reason why Paul said what he said.
And, then, after these verses, 13,14, is verse 15 ,with so much telling knowledge in the 'subjects' of the vsentence.

1 Timothy 2:15 - Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, holiness, self control.

Does this 'subjects' relationship tell you that this 'man' and 'woman' in verses 11-12 is 'Adam' and 'Eve' in verses 13,14, and, ARE husband and wife in verse 15.

Therefore, this is NOT just any with 'all subjection' over a woman, it is the man who IS her husband !


Blind eyes, SEE, and, if your ears been deaf, I PRAY NOW, dear Lord, OPEN canals
to hear you speaking here, I pray, Lord, you are speaking through me to my dear brothers and sisters on this Truth of men and women EQUAL to receive and USE your spiritual gift manifestations, yes yes, let all wisdom be seen of You, precious Jesus, in your name, Lord Jesus God, may Your Spirit lead us all to Your Truth, halelujah, amen.


Christ peeps, God made man and women equals when it comes to preaching and teaching, using gifts of the Spirit, their body IS a temple of the Holy Spirit too, and, that means women, TOO, are led by our great marvelous God, just like....

......men.

Comments are above

 

[GreenNnice]

Comments are above

Comments support my points on this, at least:

1 Timothy , verse 8 translation of 'men praying everywhere' can be 'husbands praying everywhere,' and this just further leads to 'husband' and 'wife' translation of 1 Timothy 2:12 . Context is very important fo when 'man' or 'husband' is translated from 'aner' in Paul's writings.

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Romans 7 states that man (adam) committed the sin, eve transgressed, but Adam REALLY did the 'murder,' so to speak. It was not until after ADAM ate the fruit that both their eyes became WIDE OPEN . God's timing ? Showing the power of sin at man's choice, woman DECEIVED but ma WILLFULLY sinned.
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You are blind, eyeswideclosed, you , if you saw Joyce Meyers/Elizabeth Elliott in front of your face speaking to you and the Holy Spirit MOVING, you would still be blind, seemingly. I pray you get His change , for women PASTORS have a,lot to say to many, and, who knows, maybe you will miss out on blessings by glorifying God because you turn a blind eye to a great situation for you, or,, something said by a woman pastor i know, so sad .

 

[Closemyeyes2cU]

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You are blind, eyeswideclosed, you , if you saw Joyce Meyers/Elizabeth Elliott

I dont know much about elizabeth elliott but I know enough about joyce meyers to know that you are hurting your cause by bringing people like her up. She is so doctrinally unsound that its not even funny.

This isn't even really a matter of whether or not women or capable of preaching or teaching. I surely wouldn't want someone who isn't capable of teaching to teach my children which woman are permitted to do. Some of the best teachers I have ever had in my life are women. My mother is the one who instilled the importance of God in my life, my dad surely didnt. What it comes down to, is no where in scripture can you prove that women were ever ordained to be preachers in the church, yet there are many verses that suggest that they cant.

 

[GreenNnice]

I dont know much about elizabeth elliott but I know enough about joyce meyers to know that you are hurting your cause by bringing people like her up. She is so doctrinally unsound that its not even funny.

This isn't even really a matter of whether or not women or capable of preaching or teaching. I surely wouldn't want someone who isn't capable of teaching to teach my children which woman are permitted to do. Some of the best teachers I have ever had in my life are women. My mother is the one who instilled the importance of God in my life, my dad surely didnt. What it comes down to, is no where in scripture can you prove that women were ever ordained to be preachers in the church, yet there are many verses that suggest that they cant.

Joyce Meyers?
Meh.

Don't matter, surely not ALL women preachers are FALSE TEACHERS. In fact, I can't be certain because I am not God but MOST ALL were called by God and, like men, MOST do great job being led by Christ as their teacher to their congregation. 'Course, like men, sigh, sadly, some women pastors go wayward, don't we all, I have complete confidence in God's choices, including Joyce Meyer's doctrinal differences aside.

The Lord leads, scripture and Truth, both are to lead us as.we worship Him, I speak for me ONLY, I pray my harsh siunding words to rock-solid faith guys like yourself (sounds like anyway from posts yours read)
is from Him. I know that might sound like a crux, but the Spirit leads, I pray I follow Him, only Him.

I have no fish in these fights, just Love for all, regarxing women pastors preaching in church today ARE divinely appointed and annointed by Him, even teachers in a Sunday school, as tho it might sound like much,bsunday school teachrrs, men and women, have great power (His) to leas others to Christ and build confidence in faith of believers, eyeswideclosed (note: I call you this nic because you seem akive, to me, when you would be praying/worshipping God, . That is a good thing )

 

[Closemyeyes2cU]

Joyce Meyers?
Meh.

Don't matter, surely not ALL women preachers are FALSE TEACHERS. In fact, I can't be certain because I am not God but MOST ALL were called by God and, like men, MOST do great job being led by Christ as their teacher to their congregation. 'Course, like men, sigh, sadly, some women pastors go wayward, don't we all, I have complete confidence in God's choices, including Joyce Meyer's doctrinal differences aside.

The Lord leads, scripture and Truth, both are to lead us as.we worship Him, I speak for me ONLY, I pray my harsh siunding words to rock-solid faith guys like yourself (sounds like anyway from posts yours read)
is from Him. I know that might sound like a crux, but the Spirit leads, I pray I follow Him, only Him.

I have no fish in these fights, just Love for all, regarxing women pastors preaching in church today ARE divinely appointed and annointed by Him, even teachers in a Sunday school, as tho it might sound like much,bsunday school teachrrs, men and women, have great power (His) to leas others to Christ and build confidence in faith of believers, eyeswideclosed (note: I call you this nic because you seem akive, to me, when you would be praying/worshipping God, . That is a good thing )

I know you are passionate about what you believe and you are just standing up for women and I respect that. The thing is though, nobody is attacking women. Just being faithful to our humble interpretation of Gods word. If I'm wrong I pray that he will reveal it to me, and if you are wrong, I pray he reveals it to you too.

 

[Mediate]

Sorry Rex, but argumentative is exactly what you are being. You fail to recognize that I disagree with the oppression and forcible worship, same as you do.

However, if a woman has a problem with not being allowed to preach, let her find a different religion or learn to accept it. Those are the two options.

 

[Mediate]

We'll be here all day otherwise with this pointless back and forth.

 

[Mediate]

Considering you disregard any of the gospel as accurate, you wouldn't really be of the right mind-frame to comment on this with a look at the actual text, it's translation and it's symbolism, would you?

The discussion is always going to be fruitless.

 

[Mediate]

The family order, as I have also mentioned Rex, is that men are men and women are women. Women have children, do they not? And men do not have children. Women are generally, though not always, more emotional than men, are they not?

The nature of the two sexes are very different. Why do we try to amalgamate them into being the same, when clearly we are not the same? It's silly is what I think. If we aren't going to talk biblically with respect for what the passages actually say, without the insulting tones and snide remarks without any actual biblical text or back-up on your end, then the topic of women biblical preachers is clearly irrelevant for you. So why are you on this thread ?... To skew and act obnoxiously, that's why.

So let me lay it out for you;

This war for equality between genders is insinuated, and fuelled by people like you who want to change something that most people, who understand who they are, and are okay with it, in all honesty, really couldn't give a rat's ass about. I'd much rather be out with my friends than here, arguing pettily with you while you think you know everything there is to know about real equality. Let me tell you something, women generally LIKE real men. Women like men who can work hard, play hard. Who can have confidence and not take any crap. Men who can take control. Men generally like women who are soft, gentle and caring. Family orientated. Whether or not you think women are equal to men, I care very little to be quite honest. I like what I like, and you like what you like. So if you want your woman to behave like a man, go get em tiger.

I like to be in charge, cause that's what I am. In charge. Too chavinistic for you? oh well. That's not what it is. You don't know me.

I don't stone women to death. But at the same time, I'm not gonna wear panty hose and pretend I'm not a man. Simple.

 

[Mediate]

Clearly, there are things a woman does better than me, Rex, like understanding emotion, sympathy, or softening someone's mind. But preaching, it seems, at least in God's eyes, isn't one of them.

 

[GreenNnice]

Clearly, there are things a woman does better than me, Rex, like understanding emotion, sympathy, or softening someone's mind. But preaching, it seems, at least in God's eyes, isn't one of them.

These are very reasons women teach AND preach, God's Spirit works through these innate female qualities, especially in today's age (gay is nearly about to be ratified like regular mariage, God's plan, just like you're stubborn to allow a woman paztor teach you, you can times that a NEVER for some men who have been abused by other men, who are in gay marriages and aren't accepted in church.God's reality, He is using women today for men's sake, salvation even !.

 

[Dude653]

Well notice how in 1st Timothy Paul says I Do not permit a woman to speak. This was Paul stating his own opinion. Last time I checked, Paul was not God. So to form a doctrine on Paul's opinion is to make an idol of Paul You cant just take scripturres out context and form a doctrine from it

 

[Mediate]

greenNnice women also are more easily led. How many times, compared to women, do you hear a man say 'She played me'. It's usually women who get played.

 

[Mediate]

If women read the bible then clearly they see the part about not being preachers. If they wanna be preachers, they need to find a different book man, cause that one goes against it plain and simple. God spoke through Paul. And Paul wrote it down. If you aren't gonna believe it all, don't believe any of it mate and just do what you like.

clearly this argument is gonna go on forever otherwise. You know the facts. You aren't silly.

 

[Mediate]

And I'm a bit sick of insulting your intelligence to be frank. Read it, in context, and make your decision. Are Timothy and Paul drunk or something? Do they take drugs? Does it say 'for women of this time', or does it go right back to Eve and explain why Paul says what he says? And Timothy aswell?

There's no point getting further and further into this because you know where it leads; personal attacks.

 

[Mediate]

The letter to the corinthians gives the same explanation and addresses it to 'all congregations', So it wasn't just for his 'inner circle' or for 'the women of the time'. It was for churches everywhere.

 

[GreenNnice]

Same thing I said to eyeswideclosed,mediation, you go up to a given woman pastor in America who is preaching the Word of God and many souls are being saved, you tell her (rebuke?) that she is not doing the Lord's work.


Be careful when you speak to this woman pastor, telling her she shouldn't be preaching, Christ bro, for you are speaking to a vessel used by God .