Women Pastors? Help me.

[Willie-T]

Hold on. Are you guys saying you don't believe demonic spiritual entities influencing humans don't exist?

.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.................,,,,,,,,,,,,,........,........,.,,............yes -

Well, you're still young; you have time yet to find out.

 

[LaurenTM]

alternative reading of the op:

women pastors! help me!

 

[jennymae]

I'm aware of what the Bible says about women pastors, and that some believes that there are contradicting parts in the Bible saying women pastors are okay. I don't know what is the correct interpretation of this, according to the specific verses and context, but I think the pastor should be a man. It's something about that position that makes me think that a man should be the leader of the congregation. Just my two cents, though.

 

[Willie-T]

alternative reading of the op:

women pastors! help me!

When it comes to several, especially Joyce Meyer, I could change that to read, "Women pastors help me."

 

[tooldtocare]

Aren't you the guy who picks his nose and eats the boogers.

.,.,.,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.,.,.,..,...,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,k.,.,.,l.,No-

 

[samuel23]

Don't think so. If you study the beginning of the Pentecostal movement(use the net)you will find that they placed women in authority over men from the beginning. I would be careful about claiming the Spirit of God taught people to reject the word of God. It is a fact that the early pentecostal movement placed women in authority over men in church even though the word of God says 1Cor 14:34 let you women keep silence in the churches for it is not permitted unto them to speak but to be under obedience, the things I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. So you are saying that the Holy Spirit moved people to act contrary to the word of God...sad.

 

[Willie-T]

Aren't you the guy who picks his nose and eats the boogers.

Now........... Ain't nuttin wrong with a few aberrant quirks. Nobody's perfect.

 

[Stephen63]

I agree with everything, except it was King Henry VIII who started the Protestant Church, because they would not let him divorce Catherine of Aragon, who had only produced one daughter, who became Bloody Mary, as she tried to switch England back to the RCC. Because she killed so many people. After this, the English made a law that no one who was Roman Catholic could hold the throne. Catherine was past child-bearing age, and Henry was in love with Anne Boleyn, who he married, and she had Elizabeth, who became the famous Queen Elizabeth I, who saved England from the massive Spanish armada, and an invasion from Spain. Further, when Henry finally had a son, he had congenital syphilis, leading to his early demise, as a teenager. He was a fervent Protestant, who had studied the Bible extensively, and actually governed well. So Mary was next in line, and that started a couple of years of serious bloodshed.

King James was the homosexual, if you will remember. He assembled the translation committee along with the Archbishop of Canterbury, to consolidate the power of the king, the church, and men over women. Leading to some very bad translations in that Bible.

History lesson over! Tudor history fascinates me. Not so much the Stuarts, I admit!

Oops! I'm not always right am I?

 

[tooldtocare]

Hold on. Are you guys saying you don't believe.,.,.,
demonic spiritual entities influencing humans
.,.,.,.,.,don't exist?

It is either they do or don't the choice' is theirs alone to make;

my prayers are with them -

 

[yaright]

It might come down to what you believe. You are not alone in your question. If you believe the examples set before you, you are actually doing better than many Christians much older than you. If someone thinks your question is a joke (and there were some) don't be crushed by it. And if someone says you have little faith; never lose track of this one thing...Jesus said that to all of His disciples. Let me say it another way. Jesus said that only to those who followed Him. In other words, there is nowhere on this earth that has as much power as those who follow Him. Notice that I said this in present tense. /commend those who struggle to learn because there is continually warring taking place within. It is not an easy thing to do. Jesus said you search the Scriptures believing you have salvation, but you do not turn to Me that you may have eternal life. Whether man or woman, be strong in your faith.

 

[breno785au]

If you do a study on that verse you will see that he was talking like that because of the situation that was in the churches. There were heathen women preaching false doctrine and bickering with their husbands on full display even arguing and interrupting the pastor.
There are also pastors and preachers in the bible to were great leaders..Aqua and Priscilla even saved Pauls life which he addressed in a whole chapter in romans somewhere. I dont remember which
It is a fact that woman can pray, preach,etc. when they are appointed by God. God calls everyone. There is no male nor female before God.

Get ready for people to go nuts.. this is a veeery controversial topic

Demi, ive always wondered..where do you find the information of how the church was running when Paul penned the letter? Is there book(s) about the subject?

 

[tooldtocare]

.,.,.,,,.,,I've had people tell me that the one I look up to the most is a false teacher...,.,.,.,

Itisnotsomuchaswhattheysaybutwhatexampledoyougive?

-

 

[Angela53510]

Uh.... Did he say it was 1,100 years ago? I thought he meant that at the time Luther did that (500 years ago?) 1,100 years of previous church history went against him.

Maybe I read it wrong?

Nope, read it correctly! I am at fault!

Send the teacher to the back of the classroom! LOL. I also apologize for going "all teacher." It's hard to let it go, sometimes. I was doing some work around the house, and thinking of the grades I would give for various posts. That's when I knew I was off course.

Thanks for reading it better than I could, and calling me on it. Apologies to Grace777, too!

 

[Angela53510]

Equality does not mean we are allowed to share the same role. Men and women are equal, but who has God placed in charge over the household of a family? Why? Because it is meant to show how Christ is head over the bride, the church. Equal, yet having order. I have not been called by God to be a pastor. I am to submit to the pastor of the church I attend. We are equal but have different roles within the church body.

You have an issue with KJV that did not come natural. You had to be "educated" into that position. Your false claims about King James the man is not called for. Being a "scholar", you have not done your study on him but rather read what others have falsely claimed. Why? Because these people don't like that there are people out there that actually believe they have the Bible, God's word. They do not want to submit authority, rather trust in their scholarship.

My issue with KJV started right after I was saved. I had been reading a modern Catholic version, but a paperback. I wanted something modern. A friend gave me a KJV complete with my name in gold. I tried reading it, and it made no sense. I didn't understand the words, and the grammar is all convoluted in a poor attempt to mirror the Greek in some cases, but without the use of cases for nouns and adjectives, and a very different verb system.

My husband took me out, and I bought a NASB. It was a bit stilted, but I could understand it. I read that Bible for 25 years, till it fell apart, although it was leather bound. From there, I tried NIV, then HCSB. Finally, I got into ESV after a few years of seminary, although most were still using the NASB. I'm back to HSCB, enjoying the study notes on the words in the original languages, and their use in the Bible.

In fact, it wasn't till I took Greek in 2010, having been a Christian for 30 years, that I understood the reasons behind my confusion on the KJV. We never actually studied translations, except in Hebrew, where we compared every chapter from the OT with various translations, and rated them, and informed the other students how accurate they were. That was 2013, I had been a Christian for 33 years. Oh yes, I had to review the KJV. That was really tough, since I didn't understand the vocabulary of KJV. But I pushed through, for a whole year. (Another reason I detest the KJV!)

In Jan, 2016, I started intermediate Greek. One of the other students brought up translations, specifically how the KJV was the best version because it followed the TR. My prof pretty much blew her away. We did do translation comparisons in that class, not seminary, because we were interested. The prof was on the ESV and NIV translation committees. He pretty much wrote off the ESV, showing us in so many places where it just copied the KJV, and its wrong translations. Of course, he had a lot more to stay.

So you are wrong. Which goes to show me how much you know about translational issues, and how you have this stupid stereotype of all of us demon led people, who can demonstrate, as I did back in post #123, how the KJV is a bad translation, which has literally led to bad doctrine, regarding the issue of women in ministry. (And that the KJV has a LOT of errors!)

I am so grateful that God has led me on this path, of being to properly exegete the Greek, and to be able to comment on this post with knowledge. I am not perfect, I do make mistakes, but one mistake I have NOT made, is to use a translation which has so many drawbacks.

I prefer to read REAL Bibles. You know, like the UBS Greek, complete with all the manuscript differences, and the more modern translations, because I live in this century, and I use modern language to communicate! And so does God!

 

[John146]

Ok. You keep your scholarship and I'll keep my Bible. This thread will be never ending like most if we can't agree what is our final authority on all matters of faith. That would probably be the real issue at hand.

 

[Angela53510]

Re: Women Pastors in China

I rarely weigh in on discussions like this simply because people are going to believe whatever they are going to believe. Some are going to lean toward a LITERAL biblical interpretation, and others are going to consider supply & demand. (There's a demand/need for laborers, especially male laborers, to go out to the field, but the supply of laborers, especially male ones, is few).

However, when I read threads on women pastors, I noticed that the discussion is usually limited to
1.) what Paul said
2.) Western culture. I'm not here to try to change anyone's mind on this debate. I would simply like to add some other considerations to the discussion that so often get left out.

In the population of China, males outnumber females considerably mainly because of China's one child policy. However, in the Chinese church, there are more female believers than male believers. There are also more female students than male students in the seminaries, more female preachers than male preachers, and even more female senior pastors than male senior pastors.

When we inquire into the possible reasons for this imbalance, several factors come to mind:

Through the China Inland Mission, and then with other mission agencies, WOMEN played a major role in the spread of the Gospel in China in the 19th and 20th centuries. To begin with, they were sent to minister to women, who could not be reached by men because of social customs.
Later, however, many foreign women missionaries also ministered to mixed groups, though they still usually worked mostly among women.

Their example paved the way for the prominent role of Chinese women as evangelists and Bible teachers. Another consequence of their activity was the rapid spread of the Gospel among Chinese women.

The activity of Chinese female evangelists. Not only before 1949, but especially afterwards, Chinese WOMEN have played a major role in the growth of the church. When pastors, elders, evangelists, and deacons were put into prison or even killed under the rule of the Communists, WOMEN stepped into positions of leadership.

Some women held meetings in their homes. Others were sent out by house to do itinerant evangelism. Usually going two-by-two, they took the Gospel to countless towns and villages across the nation. Their fearless and passionate preaching led to the conversions of millions of people, most of whom were women. Female pastors and evangelists have built a church composed largely of women.

Source:
Global China Center | Analysis

"Female pastors and evangelists have built a church composed largely of women." That's not a surprise because studies show that Christian women worldwide are the most religious and the most persecuted.

Christian Women Worldwide Are The Most Religious … and the Most Persecuted | Gleanings | ChristianityToday.com

Fact: God is using female pastors in China to build his church and fulfill the Great Commission. The proof is in the pudding. Chinese women are doing the work that men are either unwilling or unable to do.

This is a wonderful post, and so true. And in some cases, like Lottie Moon, it was a misogynist International Mission Board that forbade her to talk to men, and tell them the gospel in China. In fact, they tried their best to stop her from going, as a single woman, yet, thousands heard the gospel. I remember one story in her book, where a certain man had a hunger to know what she was saying. He would hide below the windows on the outside, which were usually open, and listen to what she said. God saved him, and he went to her, asking to be baptized. She refused, but finally got a man in the missionary compound to baptize him. He went out as an evangelist, and led 10,000 people to the Lord.

How many more would have been led to the Lord, had Lottie been able to preach to the men, too? Maybe even avoided the Cultural Revolution??

Further, one of my professors had been a missionary to China for many years. He spoke fluent Mandarin. When he started teaching at the seminary, a Mandarin church plant asked him to come and supervise the church. He found that it was the women doing all the preaching. And they did a good job! The Southern Baptists tried to put an end to it, but he told them the church would fold without the wisdom of the women. That church is still there today, with the women preaching and reaching the large Chinese community in that city.

I also pray for a woman missionary who has been in Taiwan her whole adult life. She said, when she was a small child, God placed the burden on her heart to go to the mission field. She is another one I am so glad that SBC lets her teach and preach, as she brings many to Christ!

 

[Stephen63]

The idea that there were women disrupting the meetings is not biblical, just something people made up in order to justify their attempt to change the command of God. You can preach, and pray for men, do anything God wants you to do, but keep in mind that God does not want you to seek a position of authority over men in the church. Sometimes God commands us to do something that we do not want to do, that is where the test comes in, will we obey God or something else.

You say, but you don't prove. At first I thought you was just a narrow-minded KJ onlyist. Then I read what you said about the Pentecostals. It was then I realized I gave you a lot more credit than you deserved. I realized I insulted the KJ onlyists, for you are more troll than anything.

BTW, quit insulting Angela..... she's forgotten more about the Bible than you'll ever know.

 

[OneFaith]

If you do a study on that verse you will see that he was talking like that because of the situation that was in the churches. There were heathen women preaching false doctrine and bickering with their husbands on full display even arguing and interrupting the pastor.
There are also pastors and preachers in the bible to were great leaders..Aqua and Priscilla even saved Pauls life which he addressed in a whole chapter in romans somewhere. I dont remember which
It is a fact that woman can pray, preach,etc. when they are appointed by God. God calls everyone. There is no male nor female before God.

Get ready for people to go nuts.. this is a veeery controversial topic

This is the same as if you grew up with two mothers instead of a mom and dad, and then realized the Bible speaks against it. You could say "But they were really kind mothers and faithful to each other in marriage." It would not be a marriage in God's eyes because it is evil and God said not to do it. In the same way, a minister might do good things, but they are sinning if they are deliberately disobeying God.

To say that they do a good job at it does not dismiss their disobedience, nor those who know what the Bible says, yet continue to follow them. Women ARE capable of preaching. If we weren't, we wouldn't have to be told not to. Our not being able to preach over a man is part of our punishment for sinning first. This punishment is not from man unto woman (though they can sinfully take advantage of it), this punishment is from God. This order is from God, and anyone who purposely goes against it is going against God.

Yes, women did preach in the Bible, and rightful so, even today it is right IF it is not in the worship assemble and not over the men of the congregation. Women are not only allowed, but commanded to teach the younger women. Women can teach other women, children, and non-Christian men. We can share the gospel and teach others of Christ, but after Christ adds a man to the church (baptism into Christ), he is furthermore to be taught by the Bible and the men of the congregation.

It is really hard to grow up being taught that something is ok that is not ok. But once we learn what the Bible says, we must adapt. Otherwise we are obeying mankind instead of God. And God calls that worshipping in vain, because that will not result in salvation. "They worship Me in vain, their doctrine is merely human rules." Jesus says "ONLY those who do the Will of My Father." We must do what God actually says. In this case it is no female is to preach over the men of the congregation. She, and we, MUST obey that in order to do God's Will concerning that subject.

Don't do what FEELS right in your heart, do what the Bible actually says. "There is a way that SEEMS right to a man, but in the end it leads to death."

 

[StanJ]

Some here have suggested that is EXACTLY the subject. (Are you mad because I put an extra "don't" in my sentence, and made it into a double negative?)

The title of the OP is 'women pastors help me', not 'demon possessed people help me'. Do you not support the rules of engagement on this forum? I don't think it's problematic at all to stay on topic and deal with one issue at a time. Anybody can post a new topic if they want to and discuss their proclivities there. I know this forum lacks any regular kind of moderation but that doesn't mean that everybody should take advantage of it, especially on a Christian forum.

 

[DiscipleDave]

So Im basically looking for some closure on this subject.

When I was 5 years old the first church I ever started attending was lead by A female Pastor. I was a regular for about 10 years. The pastor and My grandmother were best friends and she Preached at her funeral when he passed tragically.
I was saved at this church and witnessed many life changing things.

To me she was called. The absolutely incredible ways I would see God move through our church services and the amazing ways she would minister to us and help us really never made me doubt here calling. She was and still is my biggest inspiration as far as everything I hope to be one day.

So after reading that you can now imagine how hard it is to read passages like 1 Timothy 3- "The Husband of One Wife"
and 1 Tim 2:12 "I do not permit a women to teach nor have authority over a man"
And I also read about the Women Prophets of the Old testament like Miriam and others. And also places that speak of women prophesying.


I've had people tell me that the one I look up to the most is a false teacher because she is a women leading a church. That hurts my soul to hear things like that but I never want to argue the Scripture.

What is your take on the subject? Would you doubt someone's calling despite all of the wonderful fruit they produce?
Is our understanding of these passages wrong? Let me know what you think please.



This is the church and The Pastor I am referring to. --> Stephanie Taylor: Jesus Saves the Stripper | CBN.com (The pastor comes in later, not stephiane)

Do not care or listen to what people THINK is the TRUTH concerning this topic, Always listen to and believe the Word of God. There is no Scriptures that teach a woman can't preach. But women are to teach women. i believe it was Joyce Meyers that Said her ministry is to the women. She preaches to women all over the world. And yes men listen and hearken to her as well. But she will plainly tell you, her teaching is to women. She does not usurp authority over men nor does she teach men. But if men choose to listen to her, she can't stop them. The thing is, you can teach the Word of God to people without usurping authority over them. It is man that puts a preacher above that he/she is. A True Preacher should be washing everyone's feet as they come into Church, a servant to all.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave