Women Pastors? Help me.

[Depleted]

The idea that there were women disrupting the meetings is not biblical, just something people made up in order to justify their attempt to change the command of God. You can preach, and pray for men, do anything God wants you to do, but keep in mind that God does not want you to seek a position of authority over men in the church. Sometimes God commands us to do something that we do not want to do, that is where the test comes in, will we obey God or something else.

That seems a bit strange. Why would Paul suggest women be quiet, if they already were quiet? Kind of like me telling you to stop coloring your refrigerator with markers. Wouldn't that only make sense if I thought you were coloring your refrigerator?

 

[Depleted]

You are saying you are the descendant of the Duke of Buckingham, the one known from the Three Musketeers? :O

I'm embarrassed. I've never read that book, and haven't seen the movie since I was a kid. He's in there? Hm, maybe it's time to revisit the movie. (I didn't even know it was Henry VIII that beheaded him, until I saw a movie about Henry VIII. The thing that showed up in the family lineage was just "an English king," and then a few generations, another "English king." I could probably figure out which king that was too, considering the name of the boat the ancestor came on was The Mayflower.)

 

[StanJ]

Do not care or listen to what people THINK is the TRUTH concerning this topic, Always listen to and believe the Word of God. There is no Scriptures that teach a woman can't preach. But women are to teach women. i believe it was Joyce Meyers that Said her ministry is to the women. She preaches to women all over the world. And yes men listen and hearken to her as well. But she will plainly tell you, her teaching is to women. She does not usurp authority over men nor does she teach men. But if men choose to listen to her, she can't stop them. The thing is, you can teach the Word of God to people without usurping authority over them. It is man that puts a preacher above that he/she is. A True Preacher should be washing everyone's feet as they come into Church, a servant to all.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave

You're thinking is a little flawed in light of Ephesians 5:21...there are places and times in the corporate life of the church where men can submit to the authority of a woman as she teaches or preaches. Let me remind you of Romans 16:1.

 

[OneFaith]

That seems a bit strange. Why would Paul suggest women be quiet, if they already were quiet? Kind of like me telling you to stop coloring your refrigerator with markers. Wouldn't that only make sense if I thought you were coloring your refrigerator?

Because the Bible is for all generations- even this one. And since the Bible is from God, He put in it what He wanted in it. Everything in there covers every timeframe that He foreknew would exist, and what commands they would need. Therefore, whether or not there were women preaching over men or not, before the command not to, is completely irrelevant.

 

[PinkDiamond]

I'm embarrassed. I've never read that book, and haven't seen the movie since I was a kid. He's in there? Hm, maybe it's time to revisit the movie. (I didn't even know it was Henry VIII that beheaded him, until I saw a movie about Henry VIII. The thing that showed up in the family lineage was just "an English king," and then a few generations, another "English king." I could probably figure out which king that was too, considering the name of the boat the ancestor came on was The Mayflower.)

The book is very fun to read. I read it years ago and it's not dry or hard to get through. I liked the book far better than the various movie adaptations.

 

[Depleted]

Homework...that one IS funny. If Angela showed clearly to YOU that the 'let the men lead position" is groundless then you could be convinced Jesus will return in a red suit, with raindeer, and on christmas eve. 1Cor 14:34 let your women keep silence in the churches, for it is not permitted unto them to speak, but to be under obedience as says the law...37 the things that I write unto you are the COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD. If you want to fight against God then that is your business.

I bolded the important word you used. "If." Here's an IF back to you, IF you don't have a clue what Angela wrote, you proved you are not one to be willing to at least hear out a different point of view.

AND, since clearly that is you, WHY would you think anyone should bother hearing you out either? You merely just proved to me, you cannot let yourself think past your very narrow teaching on this subject.

Therefore, nothing to learn from you. (And I say that after reading quite a few of your posts so far, and really haven't learned anything from you other than you think you are the only one who understands anything, but you can't even communicate what you do understand, so no big loss.)

Do not blame your stubbornness on God. It doesn't even make sense since you're nipping on Dino about this "command." Dino is a dude. Even if that were a command (as you take it to be suddenly), It's not Dino's due to gender.

Pfft. Pure cocky silliness.

 

[Depleted]

It is either they do or don't the choice' is theirs alone to make;

my prayers are with them -

Yeah, and I can choose to believe there is no sun, and in that chose, the sun no longer exists, right?

What utter nonsense you speak.

(And yes, you did at one time have a picture of a child picking his nose as your avatar. I'm fairly grounded in reality.)

 

[Angela53510]

This is the same as if you grew up with two mothers instead of a mom and dad, and then realized the Bible speaks against it. You could say "But they were really kind mothers and faithful to each other in marriage." It would not be a marriage in God's eyes because it is evil and God said not to do it. In the same way, a minister might do good things, but they are sinning if they are deliberately disobeying God.

To say that they do a good job at it does not dismiss their disobedience, nor those who know what the Bible says, yet continue to follow them. Women ARE capable of preaching. If we weren't, we wouldn't have to be told not to. Our not being able to preach over a man is part of our punishment for sinning first. This punishment is not from man unto woman (though they can sinfully take advantage of it), this punishment is from God. This order is from God, and anyone who purposely goes against it is going against God.

Yes, women did preach in the Bible, and rightful so, even today it is right IF it is not in the worship assemble and not over the men of the congregation. Women are not only allowed, but commanded to teach the younger women. Women can teach other women, children, and non-Christian men. We can share the gospel and teach others of Christ, but after Christ adds a man to the church (baptism into Christ), he is furthermore to be taught by the Bible and the men of the congregation.

It is really hard to grow up being taught that something is ok that is not ok. But once we learn what the Bible says, we must adapt. Otherwise we are obeying mankind instead of God. And God calls that worshipping in vain, because that will not result in salvation. "They worship Me in vain, their doctrine is merely human rules." Jesus says "ONLY those who do the Will of My Father." We must do what God actually says. In this case it is no female is to preach over the men of the congregation. She, and we, MUST obey that in order to do God's Will concerning that subject.

Don't do what FEELS right in your heart, do what the Bible actually says. "There is a way that SEEMS right to a man, but in the end it leads to death."

Just curious! Did you read any of the posts in this thread? Have you ever read the Bible? You seem to be parroting something a man taught you, rather than the Word of God! Feel free to go back to some of my earlier posts on pages 5 and 7 to read what the real Bible says about these thing!

 

[trofimus]

Because the Bible is for all generations- even this one. And since the Bible is from God, He put in it what He wanted in it. Everything in there covers every timeframe that He foreknew would exist, and what commands they would need. Therefore, whether or not there were women preaching over men or not, before the command not to, is completely irrelevant.

I agree. Even though the Bible was written in its cultural context, we must keep in mind it is a sacred text and therefore valid for all times until it will be canceled by God himself.

The cultural context can say us "why", but thats it. Nothing more. It does not make it invalid for today.

For example the possibility of eating all animals was given because in its context it served the first church as the sign to preach the gospel also to Gentiles.
To know this context does not make it invalid for today. We still can eat all animals, because the sacred text was written and therefore is valid for ever.

 

[StanJ]

Because the Bible is for all generations- even this one. And since the Bible is from God, He put in it what He wanted in it. Everything in there covers every timeframe that He foreknew would exist, and what commands they would need. Therefore, whether or not there were women preaching over men or not, before the command not to, is completely irrelevant.

I agree, except the point is that there is nothing in the Bible that was given when it was written to say that women cannot preach unless you have totally ignored everything that's been written thus far in this thread to support women in Ministry in the church?

 

[PeterJens]

1 Timothy 3
1 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

These are prerequisites for pastors. The man is head of his house as Christ is the church. So the man must first rule his own house well before being concerned with the house of God.

Where are the rules for the women pastors? She must be the wife of one husband? It's just not Scriptural.

This is an argument of negatives. In Pauls day, the 10 years or so of his ministry, there were not
women who were capable of fulfilling the roles. That society has decided women were wives and family
makers, and stopped at that.

Today women are equal to men in all things. The principles of respect and family apply equally to
them, so a bishop must have only one partner, etc.

 

[PeterJens]

Sexual identity

What medical science has discovered is how fluid the brain is.
The model we have of ourselves in our heads defines how we experience the world.
And this model though real to the individual can be changed.

The identity we take on to a degree is our choice, influenced by genetics, and
experience.

God has declared His acceptance of perfection, of roles, of individuals, of ideals.

It is this discussion and how God changes us through discipleship that is the cornerstone
of our faith. If Jesus cannot change us and resolve deep issues and problems in our lives
why are we Christians at all, and have faith in Him?

Paul testified to the background of the churches which he founded. They were as confused
and as varied as the ones we have today, so the issues are the same, and the level of transformation
we can expect equally possible. Love in righteousness and purity is a stunning thing, and the
wounds people carry, so ready for ministry and help, yet the way some talk you would not believe
this is possible.

 

[LaurenTM]

The title of the OP is 'women pastors help me', not 'demon possessed people help me'. Do you not support the rules of engagement on this forum? I don't think it's problematic at all to stay on topic and deal with one issue at a time. Anybody can post a new topic if they want to and discuss their proclivities there. I know this forum lacks any regular kind of moderation but that doesn't mean that everybody should take advantage of it, especially on a Christian forum.

oh

my

somebody has a glass rod down their spine.....

I've grumped over people taking my op's (rare tho they are) off course, but I earned the privilege by longevity

you just arrived

ain't gonna make friends that way dude

and no one is gonna pay attention to you either....

 

[LaurenTM]

Ok. You keep your scholarship and I'll keep my Bible. This thread will be never ending like most if we can't agree what is our final authority on all matters of faith. That would probably be the real issue at hand.

you would probably say the same thing to Saul/Paul

people love to say that God used men with no education...TOTALLY leaving Saul/Paul out of the equation

and conveniently forgetting that he wrote more than half of the NT and one of the best educations of the day a man could get

so, yeah, keep your Bible

and that is the real problem, right? you see it as YOUR Bible

blah

the real issue is your far reaching short-sightedness and myopic opinions

tunnel vision is not a virtue

 

[John146]

This is an argument of negatives. In Pauls day, the 10 years or so of his ministry, there were not
women who were capable of fulfilling the roles. That society has decided women were wives and family
makers, and stopped at that.

Today women are equal to men in all things. The principles of respect and family apply equally to
them, so a bishop must have only one partner, etc.

This is a prime example how culture is dictating the Bible and not the Bible dictating the culture. We never should change the word of God to fit the desires of society.

 

[Depleted]

Just curious! Did you read any of the posts in this thread? Have you ever read the Bible? You seem to be parroting something a man taught you, rather than the Word of God! Feel free to go back to some of my earlier posts on pages 5 and 7 to read what the real Bible says about these thing!

She writes a lot of what I believe too. Do you think I'm parroting? Truthfully, if I believed what the church taught me before I studied it myself, I'd have no problems with women pastors at all. We were in a pentecostal, nondenom. Actually, the church we were in was a precursor to the church Willie is in.

 

[Crustyone]

I should inform people who do not know, that I am an ordained pastor. I preach and teach in my church. My last sermon touched many people, particularly with regards to the important of repentance in our Christian walk. I am a volunteer at this point. I was a chaplain for a while, till I ended up in another med failure, which I hope and pray, I am at the end of.

A few comments. First regarding the "helpmeet" in the Bible, and what Ezer really means in the OT, including Genesis 2:18. (This is put together from some other posts I have made)

"the word עזר or "ezer" often translated "helpmeet" from the Hebrew in Gen. 2:18 - It appears 21 times in the Old Testament. Two times it is in Genesis for the woman (Gen. 2:18, 20). three times for nations to whom Israel appealed for military aid. (Isa. 30:5, Eze. 12:14, Daniel 11:34),

and SIXTEEN TIMES for God as Israel's helper. (Exodus 18:4, Deut. 33:7, 26, 29, Psalms 20:2, 33:20, 70:5, 89:19 (translated STRENGTH) in NIV; 115:9, 10, 11; 121:1-2; 124:8; 146:5; Hosea 13:9.

So rather than the word being translated Helper, a better translation would be STRONG helper! Ezer is used in a military context, "shield and defense," "better than chariots and horses," "Sentry watch over his people."

Even Eden fits this pattern, because truly the Garden of Eden was a war zone. God commanded the man to keep or guard the garden by using the same military language later used for the cherubim who guarded the garden with a flaming sword. The reason, of course, is that a powerful enemy was already planning an attack.

God created his daughters to be ezer-warriors with our brothers. God deploys the ezer to break the man's aloneness by soldiering with him wholeheartedly and at full strength for God's gracious kingdom. As ezer-warriors, we must be strong, resourceful, alert to the cries of the needy and oppressed. Other verses that support the ezer-warrior image, include Ruth and the Proverbs 31 woman, and all believers are told to "put on the armour of God" in Eph. 6:10-17, not just the men.

Thinking of ezer as a warrior is entirely consistent with how Scripture views us. If you do not understand this concept, that is ok, but don't go telling women they are to give up their calling to fight against the enemy and for God and his justice, or you will be the one sinning against God.

Sad to say, your Ezar in the Garden of Eden fell first and brought her man down with her. Satan went for the weakest link.

 

[LaurenTM]

ah yes...the garden of eden...

that is where a man must go in order to still blame women

got it

some things never change

meantime, God and the rest of us have moved on

READ THE ENTIRE STORY....THAT WAS NOT THE END...GOD PROMISED REDEMPTION

this continual jib jabbing at women just stinks

 

[Willie-T]

She writes a lot of what I believe too. Do you think I'm parroting? Truthfully, if I believed what the church taught me before I studied it myself, I'd have no problems with women pastors at all. We were in a pentecostal, nondenom. Actually, the church we were in was a precursor to the church Willie is in.

LOL That's the first time I have ever heard the denomination of Calvary Chapels called a "Pentecotal Non-denominational" church.

 

[trofimus]

ah yes...the garden of eden...

that is where a man must go in order to still blame women

got it

some things never change

meantime, God and the rest of us have moved on

READ THE ENTIRE STORY....THAT WAS NOT THE END...GOD PROMISED REDEMPTION

this continual jib jabbing at women just stinks

No, God has not moved on. Nor did the apostle.

"I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.
For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner." 1Tm 2:14


So, it seems only some Christians moved on. Without God. And without Bible. The Garden of Eden is still actual and valid.