Women should not be allowed to preach in church
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Joefizz, this is as clear an example of nothing-but-eisgesing as it gets.
1. The Bible never says anyone, apart from Jesus, followed the exact laws of God.
2. It does describe a brilliant man, but nothing about flexibility. All about wisdom comes from fear/reverence for the Lord.
3. The Bible doesn't even talk about "in church." It does talk about authority over men.
4. It does talk about women being silent, but it is particular on when we are to be silent. (And this thread certainly teaches when some men should be silent too.
My own personal brand of eisegesis there. lol)
5. It most certainly does say woman have authority over men. It's particular an authority as teaching. (Titus 2 again.)
6. It never says God set men as rulers.
7. He's so busy patting himself on the back for his brilliant eisegesis, he doesn't even notice Angela isn't American, yet blames her for that and being a feminist with equal (lack of) authority.
8. And then blahblahblah opinion out the yin and the yang to prop up the personalized teachings that have absolutely nothing to do with what the Bible says.
Great example on why eisegesis is dumb!
1. The Bible never says anyone, apart from Jesus, followed the exact laws of God.
2. It does describe a brilliant man, but nothing about flexibility. All about wisdom comes from fear/reverence for the Lord.
3. The Bible doesn't even talk about "in church." It does talk about authority over men.
4. It does talk about women being silent, but it is particular on when we are to be silent. (And this thread certainly teaches when some men should be silent too.
My own personal brand of eisegesis there. lol)5. It most certainly does say woman have authority over men. It's particular an authority as teaching. (Titus 2 again.)
6. It never says God set men as rulers.
7. He's so busy patting himself on the back for his brilliant eisegesis, he doesn't even notice Angela isn't American, yet blames her for that and being a feminist with equal (lack of) authority.
8. And then blahblahblah opinion out the yin and the yang to prop up the personalized teachings that have absolutely nothing to do with what the Bible says.
Great example on why eisegesis is dumb!
1TIM 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1TIM 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1TIM 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1TIM 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
I believe Paul was talking about the church, but you're right I don't see the word "church" so one could surmise that he meant always for the woman to have NO authority over man ...
God most certainly did set "man" to be ruler ...
Genesis 3:16 [SUP]16[/SUP]To the woman he said, "I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."
Feminists are not only American's ... They have infested the entire world ... They are just most prevalent in America because most men are so weak of God's will in the U.S. ... No "opinions" of mine in the verses above, just the words of God and Paul who was inspired by God Himself ... Anyone who has conflict with the verses should take that argument up with God ...
D
Our goal is to love God with our whole being and to love others as ourselves. Under which part does "defend self" come under?
(Also a big hint to people who try attacking me, but don't get a response back. I feel no need to defend myself when following the Lord. The only times I defend myself is when I forget my focus is on the Lord.)
(Also a big hint to people who try attacking me, but don't get a response back. I feel no need to defend myself when following the Lord. The only times I defend myself is when I forget my focus is on the Lord.)
What does any of this have to do with what you quoted of me? My answer to you is what does the Bible say concerning the new topics you have introduced. The word pants isn't even in the Bible and men wore skirts back then. Paul said women should dress modestly so you should follow 1 Timothy 2:9. I don't recall a Bible verse concerning instruments being barred from church so I would instruments are acceptable unless you are trying to have a heavy metal church service.
D
Thank you for my laugh for the day.
You didn't even catch all you've been using for your stance is 1 Tim. 2:12, sentence #3 in a five sentence paragraph. (And, I'm being very liberal on the number of sentences, because semicolons flitter about. Semicolons are used to put to independent sentences together.)
Sooo, what you really mean is "you, oh, mere woman, must never take something out of its full context, but I am Hulking Man, so I can."
For the record, I did keep mine in context. (Writer, so context is everything to me.) The only part I left out was the part about slaves. Just figured no one on here is a slave, so let's not worry about the duty of slaves.
What was your presumption concerning my use of the phrase "plain English" that compelled you to post what you did? It is apparent that you took issue with it. My response was a response to your response of my response. I was just trying to shed light on what I meant in the original post and that is 1 Timothy 2:12 is translated just fine in the English Bibles and the Greek dictionaries confirm this.
D
You should try that in reality. It's really an accomplishment to go toe-to-toe with Angela. I've done it. And, I've done it on this very issue -- should women be pastors? I don't think we should. You already know what she thinks. And yet to prove your side of the argument, (which you have absolutely not done at all but to the level of childish banter), you really need to dig into it at the levels she's done it... and I've done it.
Neither one of us got to the point of convincing the other the errors of her way. BUT some amazing things came out of the toe-to-toe:
1. We really dug into what the Bible actually says, (exegete, not eisegete), dug into the history and culture of the time, and really thought out what we believed. Able to knock out some of the garbage we used to believe. (She never convinced me that women should be pastors, but she sure did teach me the flaw with Strong's. Not to the point that I've given up Strong's. Just to the point where I know I have to dig deeper sometimes, if I do choose a deeper study of a biblical word.)
2. We learned both of us are passionate about the Lord and willing to dig deeply into his word.
3. Neither one of us fear knocking down our own strawman arguments, for fear that the Lord can't stand on his own. We've learned to trust if God has a point, he can certainly get his point across to us.
4. AND we have become two sisters in Christ. We showed integrity, dignity, and sound speech. We have grown into a deeper relationship out of trust for one another.
And do get this -- if'n you want to know who won that toe-to-toe, she beat me hands down exegetely speaking. Still, God taught me long ago I should never be authority over men my age or older. That has not changed.
But, instead of just repeating the same thing over and over again, when all you're really doing is showing you don't much cotton to studying the scriptures in depth, I really recommend you try going toe-to-toe with her. You will force yourself into something you haven't done yet -- learn if women should or shouldn't be preachers to men.
And once you commit yourself into studying long and hard about one thing in the Bible, it might be catching. You might actually find out how good it is to learn something in the Bible in depth, and start a new life of studying even more things about God, instead of relying on whoever you rely on for the shallow knowledge you have received.
Neither one of us got to the point of convincing the other the errors of her way. BUT some amazing things came out of the toe-to-toe:
1. We really dug into what the Bible actually says, (exegete, not eisegete), dug into the history and culture of the time, and really thought out what we believed. Able to knock out some of the garbage we used to believe. (She never convinced me that women should be pastors, but she sure did teach me the flaw with Strong's. Not to the point that I've given up Strong's. Just to the point where I know I have to dig deeper sometimes, if I do choose a deeper study of a biblical word.)
2. We learned both of us are passionate about the Lord and willing to dig deeply into his word.
3. Neither one of us fear knocking down our own strawman arguments, for fear that the Lord can't stand on his own. We've learned to trust if God has a point, he can certainly get his point across to us.
4. AND we have become two sisters in Christ. We showed integrity, dignity, and sound speech. We have grown into a deeper relationship out of trust for one another.
And do get this -- if'n you want to know who won that toe-to-toe, she beat me hands down exegetely speaking. Still, God taught me long ago I should never be authority over men my age or older. That has not changed.
But, instead of just repeating the same thing over and over again, when all you're really doing is showing you don't much cotton to studying the scriptures in depth, I really recommend you try going toe-to-toe with her. You will force yourself into something you haven't done yet -- learn if women should or shouldn't be preachers to men.
And once you commit yourself into studying long and hard about one thing in the Bible, it might be catching. You might actually find out how good it is to learn something in the Bible in depth, and start a new life of studying even more things about God, instead of relying on whoever you rely on for the shallow knowledge you have received.
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