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C
It boils down to this, God has set Jesus in Headship of the church and men in headship over women, particularly their wives. This means that through the spirit the men lead the church and the husband should be pastoring his own family at home. Women have many wonderful unique gifts that God has given them, but God has asked men to step up and lead their church family and their family at home. The reason why there is even this debate is that generally men have failed to step up at church and at home. This is the way that God wants it to be in His family and we as men need to step up and be courageous, loving, worshipful leaders.
Well after seeing all these comments I'm sure that we have many different opinions about this but if I may present a supposition perhaps clarity will come forth God willing.
God the Father is as the bible states the FATHER of all creation.
The first earthly being with a soul created was you guessed it ADAM
The greatest teacher of the ages is Jesus and as we all know he is a man
The reoccuring theme here would imply (at least to me) that man would be at the head of his house as Jesus is the head of his house as God is the head of his house so the preacher should be a man at the pulpit.
This is not to say that women can't teach women but rather in a church as in a house a Man shoul be the head and therefore shown respect as such when performing his duties in the church as all churches in the Christian faith owe their existence to a man not a woman(that would be God the Father)
I am doing my best here not to sound sexist.
Perhaps for reasons that I cannot quantify with my own limited abilities of language Men are better suited to the Job.
In contrast women definitely make better teachers to other women and men when it comes to understanding and defining characteristics of the female gender which they have an inate knowledge of better than most any man.
So it is when men act as preachers they do this in a role of mirroring the image given us by God as the Grand patriarch and teacher of all time.
It is not a sign of disrespect towards women rather think of it as following the rules set by God himself which as we all know should be done.
Personally I don't think anyone should talk when a preacher is speaking out of respect for the pulpit if nothing else. If you have a bone to pick with the teachings of your minister wait until after the service to take it up with him rather than discrediting him in front of his congregation. This is the respectful thing to do.
God the Father is as the bible states the FATHER of all creation.
The first earthly being with a soul created was you guessed it ADAM
The greatest teacher of the ages is Jesus and as we all know he is a man
The reoccuring theme here would imply (at least to me) that man would be at the head of his house as Jesus is the head of his house as God is the head of his house so the preacher should be a man at the pulpit.
This is not to say that women can't teach women but rather in a church as in a house a Man shoul be the head and therefore shown respect as such when performing his duties in the church as all churches in the Christian faith owe their existence to a man not a woman(that would be God the Father)
I am doing my best here not to sound sexist.
Perhaps for reasons that I cannot quantify with my own limited abilities of language Men are better suited to the Job.
In contrast women definitely make better teachers to other women and men when it comes to understanding and defining characteristics of the female gender which they have an inate knowledge of better than most any man.
So it is when men act as preachers they do this in a role of mirroring the image given us by God as the Grand patriarch and teacher of all time.
It is not a sign of disrespect towards women rather think of it as following the rules set by God himself which as we all know should be done.
Personally I don't think anyone should talk when a preacher is speaking out of respect for the pulpit if nothing else. If you have a bone to pick with the teachings of your minister wait until after the service to take it up with him rather than discrediting him in front of his congregation. This is the respectful thing to do.
J
And after church?
What is the church? Is it church services? Let us consider what the scriptures say about the church:
Coincidentally, it is taken from 1 Corinthians12:12-20
"The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.
Now the body is not made up of one part but of many. If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. If they were all one part, where would the body be? As it is, there are many parts, but one body."
Therefore the church is the body of Christ. The body of Christ is made up of all born-again believers worldwide. There can also be local bodies made up of the members of a local assembly.
The church is NOT meetings or services. These are just one of many things the church (body) does. Is Paul addressing what is done in church services when he states women should not speak? No! It is a general rule that women should not seek to exercise authority over men or seek to teach them. This applies whether you are at a meeting or outside a meeting. It applies whenever the church is gathered. ie whenever two or three or more Christians get together, for Jesus said where two or three are gathered together, I am there with you.
Does 1 Corinthians or any other NT passage mention that the church means services? In 1 Cor 11 it says "your meetings", but does that mean "services"? The context would suggest not. Meetings are "gatherings together" of believers. It doesn't always result in services. In 1 Cor 11 it was discussing having proper full meals together to commemorate the Last Supper, not a ceremonious wafer and sip of communion wine.
You don't read anywhere of "services". You DO read of the church gathered together to study the scriptures and pray together (in an informal way) including EACH ONE (not just one person) sharing their spiritual gifts and eating meals together etc. Paul saw that it was chaotic BECAUSE it was informal. He showed us how to retain informality but to do it decently and in order. The problem is that the church has been so concerned with "decent and in order" aspect that they have turned the meetings into "services" or "ceremonies".
Where does that leave us? Well ..... whenever believers meet together whether formally or informally the rules STILL apply. Women should NOT have authority over men or seek to teach them.
Theref
A
and when "men" at like little children, we'll let the other men put them in the corner then....
but I have to say if there are not any other men around We will have to use force/authority to escort them out. Or the right to walk out in mass.
one question what about unbelieving men who would take advantage of Christian women and do not hold themselves to the standards of God?
but I have to say if there are not any other men around We will have to use force/authority to escort them out. Or the right to walk out in mass.
one question what about unbelieving men who would take advantage of Christian women and do not hold themselves to the standards of God?
C
One reason why the bible says not to be unequally yoked. As well I believe it was Paul who said that if a man is doing that which is wrong she should appeal to a higher authority, first the elders and then to God. In other words if a man is doing something wrong (particularly if its to the woman) the woman does not have to sit there and take it, she is provided with a path to either a resolution with the help of the elders in the church and if not a way out taking God's was over her husbands way.
J
and when "men" at like little children, we'll let the other men put them in the corner then....
but I have to say if there are not any other men around We will have to use force/authority to escort them out. Or the right to walk out in mass.
one question what about unbelieving men who would take advantage of Christian women and do not hold themselves to the standards of God?
but I have to say if there are not any other men around We will have to use force/authority to escort them out. Or the right to walk out in mass.
one question what about unbelieving men who would take advantage of Christian women and do not hold themselves to the standards of God?
If you are talking about things that go on outside of the church, this is not the subject of this thread, but christian women should not become involved with unbelieving men who do not understand what God expects of them within a godly relationship.
If they really ever made it possible to put grown people in the corner then I would think it would be both sexes that could be put in the corner for misbehaving. I could see the older women putting a few of the younger women in the corner. Just hypothetically and all. It's kind of like the whole waterboarding thing. Should we torment terrorist in prison. It might be other people next. Then it might be you or someone you know. The point is, once it has started, who knows what can happen. It might happen to you.
K
Regarding using this order also out of church (and I'm not trying to rebel against the Bible here, just to clarify)...
What about a man and a woman trying to learn from the Bible together? (outside of the church) ...To actually learn something, you both have to interchange ideas and suggestions, is that going against the rule? And you may say...let a man teach a man, but we know this can't always be possible, since some men don't have male believer friends. Im certainly not a man
but I remember I only had a christian female friend in Mexico( where christianity is not the top religion) , from whom I learned a lot. Now, if I had been a guy who decided to convert too, and she were my only christian friend with whom I can learn more( and this actually happened with another friend) , should she have remained silent? There can be alot of circumstances when a man learns from a woman and there's no other option for the moment.
Or when an unbeliever man is learning from a woman? Most of my friends are unbelievers, and I sometimes receive questions about my faith, and they often come from men. I don't think God wants me to shut up in that case( and I haven't had that conviction inside of me neither), since they don't have any other person to ask to. I can't imagine saying'' sorry, you're a man, I can't answer your questions'' and then walk away. Of course I would recommend them to talk with an elder in church, but seeing that I don't attend a church right now, that's not possible for me, and seeing that they are my friends, they would feel more comfortable asking me than asking a stranger.
I'm certainly not trying to go against the Bible, I do believe a woman has to submit to the male authorities in church, but these are just my observations. I hope noone throws virtual tomatoes, carrots or potatoes at me haha.
What about a man and a woman trying to learn from the Bible together? (outside of the church) ...To actually learn something, you both have to interchange ideas and suggestions, is that going against the rule? And you may say...let a man teach a man, but we know this can't always be possible, since some men don't have male believer friends. Im certainly not a man
but I remember I only had a christian female friend in Mexico( where christianity is not the top religion) , from whom I learned a lot. Now, if I had been a guy who decided to convert too, and she were my only christian friend with whom I can learn more( and this actually happened with another friend) , should she have remained silent? There can be alot of circumstances when a man learns from a woman and there's no other option for the moment.Or when an unbeliever man is learning from a woman? Most of my friends are unbelievers, and I sometimes receive questions about my faith, and they often come from men. I don't think God wants me to shut up in that case( and I haven't had that conviction inside of me neither), since they don't have any other person to ask to. I can't imagine saying'' sorry, you're a man, I can't answer your questions'' and then walk away. Of course I would recommend them to talk with an elder in church, but seeing that I don't attend a church right now, that's not possible for me, and seeing that they are my friends, they would feel more comfortable asking me than asking a stranger.
I'm certainly not trying to go against the Bible, I do believe a woman has to submit to the male authorities in church, but these are just my observations. I hope noone throws virtual tomatoes, carrots or potatoes at me haha
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