Women will be saved through Childbearing, if

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garee

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Mar 28, 2016
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And she was a judge and prophet, not a pastor or king.
The idea of a king only supports the pagan foundation "walking by sight". . .no faith the unseen eternal view..

Deborah a prophet as one that declares the word of God by her actions moved by the Holy Spirit that worked in her both to will and do the good pleasure of God. She brought the gospel as a Judge. The reformation restored the pagan form of government back the Judges.
Just as promised in Joel.

Pastor shepherdess (female) and shepherds (male) working together as one. The established government of peace.

In mathew 23 we are informed to all no man teacher or father on earth . Rather that walking by faith in respect to our unseen father God.

men under kings were giving that authority to other men . Sort of like the catholic idea of Apostolical succession men lording it over another mans faith. Even the Son of man Jesus refused to stand in the holy unseen place of the father . When accused of being Good Master( daysman) The Son of man, Jesus replied none good but one, that is, God .The word good represents the unseen faith principle.

Matthew 19:16-18 King James Version (KJV) And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

In the end of the matter gender has no value when it comes to the gospel .Men and woman can plant the incorruptible seed by which mankind is born again.... and water it with the water of the word, the doctrines of God that fall rain. But Christ must cause the new growth and any there after.

Its Satan the counterfeiter who separates what God call one. . and what calls one and the father of lies calls separate. He as the spirit of error performed that work in the garden. The result. Adam and Eve knew they were naked .. . the lust of the eye witness or pride that came before the fall.
 

Moses_Young

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Sep 15, 2019
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The idea of a king only supports the pagan foundation "walking by sight". . .no faith the unseen eternal view..
If this were true, we would not sing "All hail, King Jesus".
 
Dec 30, 2019
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which is only for males with wife and children.
Then why are we told: "In the same way, the women must be dignified, not slanderers, but temperate and faithful in all things." (1Timothy3:10) Did you take your scissors out and throw away the rest of the passage that you are quoting? You look at the qualification for the men but you ignore the qualification for the women? We have relationships in the Church. Son's and daughters, mothers and fathers, brothers and sisters. Solomon refereed to his wife as his sister. I tell my wife I expect her to at least treat me as good as she does her brothers.
 

Dino246

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Jun 30, 2015
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Greek is ancient and limited. Phoebe was commended for excellent service. But it does not mean she actually held an office as deacon which is only for males with wife and children. KJV translated it correctly so that it will not contradict with the qualification mentioned. That is what I believe, so you don't have to agree with me.
I certainly don't agree, because translation to support a particular belief undermines the value of the translation. If the KJV translators (or Tyndale) translated diakonon as "servant" because they believed that women could not be deacons, it is simply incorrect.
 

Tinkerbell725

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Jul 19, 2014
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Philippines Age 40
Then why are we told: "In the same way, the women must be dignified, not slanderers, but temperate and faithful in all things." (1Timothy3:10) Did you take your scissors out and throw away the rest of the passage that you are quoting? You look at the qualification for the men but you ignore the qualification for the women? We have relationships in the Church. Son's and daughters, mothers and fathers, brothers and sisters. Solomon refereed to his wife as his sister. I tell my wife I expect her to at least treat me as good as she does her brothers.

Qualification of their wives.

And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless. Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.


1 Timothy 3:10‭-‬11 KJV
 

Dino246

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Jun 30, 2015
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Qualification of their wives.

And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless. Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.


1 Timothy 3:10‭-‬11 KJV
Once again, your ignorance of Greek undermines your argument. The Greek words translated "their wives" in the KJV are legitimately translated "the women".
 

Tinkerbell725

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2014
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Philippines Age 40
Once again, your ignorance of Greek undermines your argument. The Greek words translated "their wives" in the KJV are legitimately translated "the women".

Believe whatever you want but don't tell me what to believe. Your NIV and other modern versions call phoebe a servant then call her a deacon all of a sudden. They just cause confusion. I will just stick with kjv so leave me alone. I don't need you to agree with me.
 
Dec 30, 2019
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Qualification of their wives.

And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless. Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.


1 Timothy 3:10‭-‬11 KJV
bride (1), wife (71), wife's (1), wives (11), woman (96), woman's (1), women (33) Yes there is a strong indication that you are correct.
 
Dec 30, 2019
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Once again, your ignorance of Greek undermines your argument. The Greek words translated "their wives" in the KJV are legitimately translated "the women".
Look a little deeper and see if the reference is to married women as compared to maidens or unmarried women.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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If this were true, we would not sing "All hail, King Jesus".

Not really .He is the unseen King that we hail by faith (the unseen eternal)

The unbelieving faithless Jews that gathered themselves together. Not believing in a God not seen. They like all of unconverted mankind refused to serve by faith. They walked by sight becoming jealous of the surrounding pagan nations of the world .

1 Samuel 8:4-7 King James Version (KJV)Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah,
And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the Lord. And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.

The Christian nation is the only nation that hails a invisible God.
 

Dino246

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Jun 30, 2015
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Believe whatever you want but don't tell me what to believe. Your NIV and other modern versions call phoebe a servant then call her a deacon all of a sudden. They just cause confusion. I will just stick with kjv so leave me alone. I don't need you to agree with me.
Did I say anything about the NIV? No. You're blustering because you don't have a sound defense, and you prefer your 16th century blinders over the truth. You're welcome to them.
 

Whispered

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Aug 17, 2019
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I have been to Bible College and taught the whole context thing. We know what words mean in the Bible based on our understanding of the letters that make up the words. The context just verifies what we already know from our Study of the Original language of the Bible.
If you say so.
You're talking in circles there.
 

Whispered

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That is exactly what Jesus was; having the seed of the divine within Him/ indwelt by the Holy spirit/ Glorious over sin

Rev 3:21To the one who is victorious, I will grant the right to sit with Me on My throne, just as I overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
No, JW's and Anabaptists are wrong. Jesus didn't have the seed of the divine within Him. Jesus was the divine made flesh. Because no one could look upon the divine and live, as we know from the old testament.
Therefore, in order to bring the new covenant to the world Holy Spirit God entered Mary's womb and became flesh so as to impart the new covenant to the world.
This is why the angel that informed Mary of her blessing being chosen for this purpose and to bring this gift to the world was told , when her son is born she is to name him Emmanuel, meaning, God with us.
It doesn't get much more clear than the introduction by that name to the Jews Emmanuel's family would interact with as Jews.

Jesus
was
GOD!

It isn't a debate. It is a fact.
 

Whispered

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This is not about me.
Oh, to the contrary. You refuse to admit you are wrong about the office of Deacon. You are dead set and determined to be wrong regardless of the fact more learned people try to help your lack of awareness in this area.
There's a very personal reason for you thinking God behaves the way you prefer when He calls people to the office of Deacon as you insist is the way it is, contrary to the facts in the scripture.
That's what you believe. That's fine. As long as you understand that you are wrong and therefore your belief is flawed and you appear more than ready to argue so as to remain in error regardless of what is proven concerning that fact and by actual scripture.
Yes, that makes it all about you. Because you refuse to be corrected.
And scripture speaks to that as well.
 

TheIndianGirl

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Nov 22, 2019
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And she was a judge and prophet, not a pastor or king.
Women's roles are not always as helpers. Here as a Supreme Court Justice equivalent, she was a leader.
Since when have the affairs of man been higher than the affairs of God? Therefore, the office of pastor is higher than that of Supreme Court Justice.
I would say that a Supreme Court Justice equivalent has more power than a pastor (who is a teacher, and whose role is to spread the Gospel). The fate/life of a man is at the hands of a judge. Here, I'm not saying that a Supreme Court Justice has more power than God, who is the ultimate judge.
And look how that ended.
I do not see your point. There are plenty of Christians who have become martyrs and brave soldiers/military leaders who have passed away. The point here is that Joan was in a position of authority.
None of these were elders/pastors.
Perhaps correct about pastors (with the possibility of Elect Lady). Disagree about elders.
To say "a woman can't be a pastor" is not saying a woman is not valuable, anymore than stating "a man cannot give birth" is stating a man is not valuable.
If women have to be silent or can't talk/preach/teach to men, how was it possible that women were tasked with spreading the most important world event to men?
Doesn't this view introduce a contradiction, rather than resolve one?
If those verses in Timothy were only intended for a congregation, they are not meant as rules for all women for all generations so I do not see a contradiction.
 

Whispered

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And she was a judge and prophet, not a pastor or king.

Since when have the affairs of man been higher than the affairs of God? Therefore, the office of pastor is higher than that of Supreme Court Justice.

And look how that ended.

None of these were elders/pastors.

To say "a woman can't be a pastor" is not saying a woman is not valuable, anymore than stating "a man cannot give birth" is stating a man is not valuable.

Doesn't this view introduce a contradiction, rather than resolve one?
So many errors but to save just one. To say that a woman cannot be a pastor is to tell God He is wrong to call a woman to minister His word because of her sex.
Such ignorance belies a fatal truth in that such a one that thinks that is not near ready enough to honor all of God's truth due to their own prejudices.

There are many women leaders in the scriptures. We can go to the book of Micah chapter 6 and find Miriam who led God's people, along with Moses and his brother Aaron, after they had been delivered by God out of the land of Egypt.

We can look to the Prophetess Anna in the book of Luke chapter 2.
 

Whispered

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"In Hebrew the same word is used to describe, woman and wife. "
"...What a woman, that Deborah! First she was a prophetess and probably a wife. In Hebrew the same word is used for “woman” and “wife,” so we don’t know for certain if Deborah was a “woman of Lappidoth” (a place) or “wife of Lappidoth” (a person) (4:4). But most likely Deborah was married. The whole reason “woman” and “wife” weren’t separate words in Deborah’s day was because a female could be one of three things: a virgin, a married woman, or widowed. Deciding to live single was not on a young woman’s list of options unless her husband had died and she had a big enough dowry to keep eating.

We know that Deborah was a “mother in Israel” (5:7). Yet we don’t know for certain if that means she was a biological mother. More likely “mother in Israel” is a title indicating that the nation looked to Deborah for leadership as the nation’s mother similarly to how the childless George Washington could be called “the father or our nation” in the USA.

Deborah was a prophetess. And note what she told Barak, whose name means “lightning bolt” (4:6–7): “She sent for Barak son of Abinoam from Kedesh in Naphtali and said to him, “The LORD, the God of Israel, commands you: ‘Go, take with you ten thousand men of Naphtali and Zebulun and lead the way to Mount Tabor. I will lure Sisera, the commander of Jabin’s army, with his chariots and his troops to the Kishon River and give him into your hands.’”
More Reading

As for SCOTUS jurists, in America there is the separation clause. Even Jesus said, render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and unto God that which is God's.
SCOTUS judges tell a president what they can and cannot do.
A Shepherd, which is the word in Christ's time for what today is, Pastor, of a church flock, male or female, is told by God what to do.
There's a difference. And as is rightly identified in the linked article above, this is not a gender issue at all. It's about Him! God.
And whom God calls into His service.
When we are all one in Christ Jesus, who can gainsay God calling a woman to serve? When there is no gender in the church, there is no race, there is no nationality, there is no separation due to appearances. Why then would anyone argue that there is? When God says, no.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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No, JW's and Anabaptists are wrong. Jesus didn't have the seed of the divine within Him. Jesus was the divine made flesh. Because no one could look upon the divine and live, as we know from the old testament.
Therefore, in order to bring the new covenant to the world Holy Spirit God entered Mary's womb and became flesh so as to impart the new covenant to the world.
This is why the angel that informed Mary of her blessing being chosen for this purpose and to bring this gift to the world was told , when her son is born she is to name him Emmanuel, meaning, God with us.
It doesn't get much more clear than the introduction by that name to the Jews Emmanuel's family would interact with as Jews.

Jesus
was
GOD!

It isn't a debate. It is a fact.
Wrong but just as you have said, it is not a debate so i won't pursue this.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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Wrong but just as you have said, it is not a debate so i won't pursue this.
No, Bible.
And thanks for recognizing it isn't a debate. It's God's word, and book after book, calling of women in all offices in His service.
It just is. If it's wrong, then God is wrong.
Big mistake. No debate there either.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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Women's roles are not always as helpers. Here as a Supreme Court Justice equivalent, she was a leader.


I would say that a Supreme Court Justice equivalent has more power than a pastor (who is a teacher, and whose role is to spread the Gospel). The fate/life of a man is at the hands of a judge. Here, I'm not saying that a Supreme Court Justice has more power than God, who is the ultimate judge.

I do not see your point. There are plenty of Christians who have become martyrs and brave soldiers/military leaders who have passed away. The point here is that Joan was in a position of authority.

Perhaps correct about pastors (with the possibility of Elect Lady). Disagree about elders.

If women have to be silent or can't talk/preach/teach to men, how was it possible that women were tasked with spreading the most important world event to men?


If those verses in Timothy were only intended for a congregation, they are not meant as rules for all women for all generations so I do not see a contradiction.
It has been repeated ad nausea and is still for some not true that Paul praised women who served side by side with him spreading the Gospel.
Paul recognized prophetesses, Deaconesses, Shepherds, (pastors, male and female).
What is too often ignored in the matter of the Book of Timothy, or Paul's letter , epistle, to Timothy, wherein Paul instructs women to remain quiet in church, is that the latter verses inform as to why. It isn't that they're not allowed to preach because they're women. Rather, it is because the congregations were divided into two's. Women on one side of the room, men on the other. This can be found in churches today as well. It is so that couples aren't distracted by one another, and so that single people aren't either.
The admonition to remain quiet , women to remain quiet, as Paul says in the latter verses of Timothy, is so that they don't disrupt the service with questions about what is being taught. If they have questions they should , as the passage says, wait until they're at home and can ask their husband.
Of course, who's to say he has an answer? Best to ask the shepherd leading the flock in the study, I'd think.

It's a tragedy when as Christian's we tell ourselves we are, as scripture teaches, in the world but not of the world. And yet, it is inevitable that we'll happen on one or more people, men and women , and it is always disappointing to find it to be women too, who think the world's segregation and bias toward women is espoused as God's will in the body of the Ekklesia.
Of the world and in the world, is quite a bit to overcome. But it can be done.
Maybe if people realize God chose a woman to deliver Himself to the world as Emmanuel, would help.
And then there's queen Esther. And as we said, Deborah , the judge. Miriam, Moses' older sister and a prophetess and leader. And, Jehosheba , Mary of Bethany, quite a list actually. :)