Womens Punishment ended?

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DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
3,095
69
48
Originally Posted by MsSuzanna


so your salvation isnt enough? Christ will damn you because you didnt obey?

You were doing well until you closed with that...
DiscipleDave believes that a Christian can end up going to hell if he disobeys Christ. He said so in the OSAS thread.
Is it not written if you love Him you will do what He says? i believe that because it is the TRUTH, it is what God has told me, and is also what the Word of God plainly teaches. Is it not written those who commit sin is of the devil?

Is it not written Good Trees only produce good fruits, not any bad ones.

Did Jesus tell a man and a woman to "Go and sin no more"

is it not written "Awake to righteousness and sin not"

is it not written who you obey is your master? Do you obey satan and commit sin?

Is it not written only those who obey Him receive the Holy Ghost? Yes it is.

i believe Scriptures, not what this generations teaches as truth.

Who is cleansed by the Blood of Jesus? According to man anyone who gets Saved, but according to Scriptures those who walk in the light and not in darkness they are the ones who are cleansed.

i believe the Word of God, this generation believes in false doctrines, which are contrary to the Word of God.

So Yes i believe if you continually live in sin (disobey Christ) then you will not be taken up with Him. Scriptures teaches that too.

^i^
 

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
3,095
69
48
Originally Posted by MsSuzanna


Do you think Dave is sitting back laughing? hmmmmm
I do wonder ya know:confused:
ehm, if you have a look at his posting history, i think you'll agree probably not.
Your right, i take my calling very seriously. i reveal what God told me to tell this generation, and He even said to me, it is a generation that will not hear you. i even asked Him then, then why say anything at all to them, if you already know they will not hear me when i tell them the things you have told me?" He said "So they will have no excuses when they stand before me on Judgment Day" then i understood. When you stand before Him on Judgement Day, you will not be able to plead ignorance, that you did not know the TRUTH. Because i DiscipleDave have told you the TRUTH, you have heard it from me, who plainly teaches it is from HIM. You do not believe me, because the TRUTH is not in you, if it were in you then you would hear the Masters voice when you heard it. What i teach is what He told me. If you do not believe me, it is not i that you don't believe, but him who told me these things. NOTHING i teach is contrary to Scriptures NOTHING!!!! it is only what you believe to be the truth is what contradicts what i teach. You don't disagree with me, like you think, you disagree with God who told me these things.
^i^
 

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
3,095
69
48
Curse of Genesis:

*To the woman He said:

“I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception;
In pain you shall bring forth children;
Your desire*shall be*for your husband,
And he shall rule over you.”

17*Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’:

“Cursed*is*the ground for your sake;
In toil you shall eat*of*it
All the days of your life.
18*Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you,
And you shall eat the herb of the field.
19*In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread


Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written,*“Cursed*is*everyone who hangs on a tree”


Btw I never see men sweat anymore either if they work in an office. They should shut the airco off.
You say it is the curse of Genesis. You do error. The only, ONLY thing that was cursed was the ground. Reread it and see for yourself, you are adding things that are not there. you are saying the punishment to the mand and woman was a curse, when that is not what it says at all, it merely says the ground is cursed, and because the Ground is cursed, the punishment for the man would begin. The punishments to the man and to the woman is NOT a curse, You do error ADDing to Scriptures your own interpretations.

^i^
 

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
3,095
69
48
Reminder to me, when i come back to this forum, i am on post #34

^i^
 
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coby2

Guest
You say it is the curse of Genesis. You do error. The only, ONLY thing that was cursed was the ground. Reread it and see for yourself, you are adding things that are not there. you are saying the punishment to the mand and woman was a curse, when that is not what it says at all, it merely says the ground is cursed, and because the Ground is cursed, the punishment for the man would begin. The punishments to the man and to the woman is NOT a curse, You do error ADDing to Scriptures your own interpretations.

^i^
He would make it harder the pain and grieve. Doesn't sound like a blessing. Jesus bore our griefs.
They have spinals these days and ceasareans, some have faith for it and got a supernatural one and I don't get more anyway and He set me free from PMS. That curse is broken.
That man would rule was a consequence of sin I think, not a curse.
 
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Your right, i take my calling very seriously. i reveal what God told me to tell this generation, and He even said to me, it is a generation that will not hear you. i even asked Him then, then why say anything at all to them, if you already know they will not hear me when i tell them the things you have told me?" He said "So they will have no excuses when they stand before me on Judgment Day" then i understood. When you stand before Him on Judgement Day, you will not be able to plead ignorance, that you did not know the TRUTH. Because i DiscipleDave have told you the TRUTH, you have heard it from me, who plainly teaches it is from HIM. You do not believe me, because the TRUTH is not in you, if it were in you then you would hear the Masters voice when you heard it. What i teach is what He told me. If you do not believe me, it is not i that you don't believe, but him who told me these things. NOTHING i teach is contrary to Scriptures NOTHING!!!! it is only what you believe to be the truth is what contradicts what i teach. You don't disagree with me, like you think, you disagree with God who told me these things.
^i^

You take yourself too seriously. You are sinning right now with your haughty spirit.
Where you have gone astray is judging those whom you do not know. It is up to God to judge eternally and not you.

God said the things you mention in his word. He wasnt speaking solely to YOU.
God also said that you will lose your lampstand if you do not return to your first love.
NOTHING i teach is contrary to Scriptures NOTHING!!!!
Are you saying that you are infallible?
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Because i DiscipleDave have told you the TRUTH, you have heard it from me, who plainly teaches it is from HIM. You do not believe me, because the TRUTH is not in you, if it were in you then you would hear the Masters voice when you heard it. What i teach is what He told me. If you do not believe me, it is not i that you don't believe, but him who told me these things. NOTHING i teach is contrary to Scriptures NOTHING!!!! it is only what you believe to be the truth is what contradicts what i teach. You don't disagree with me, like you think, you disagree with God who told me these things.

^i^
This right here is a sure sign of a false prophet and teacher. Stay away from this type of spiritual manipulation.

It is really a work of the flesh called "witchcraft" in Galatians 5 which is the Greek word for drugs which is the "mixing of things together to get a desired result".


Viewers beware!
 
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Is it not written if you love Him you will do what He says? i believe that because it is the TRUTH, it is what God has told me, and is also what the Word of God plainly teaches. Is it not written those who commit sin is of the devil?

Is it not written Good Trees only produce good fruits, not any bad ones.

Did Jesus tell a man and a woman to "Go and sin no more"

is it not written "Awake to righteousness and sin not"

is it not written who you obey is your master? Do you obey satan and commit sin?

Is it not written only those who obey Him receive the Holy Ghost? Yes it is.

i believe Scriptures, not what this generations teaches as truth.

Who is cleansed by the Blood of Jesus? According to man anyone who gets Saved, but according to Scriptures those who walk in the light and not in darkness they are the ones who are cleansed.

i believe the Word of God, this generation believes in false doctrines, which are contrary to the Word of God.

So Yes i believe if you continually live in sin (disobey Christ) then you will not be taken up with Him. Scriptures teaches that too.

^i^
You quoted me but it wasnt you I was speaking to. You took what I said out of context.

i believe Scriptures, not what this generations teaches as truth.
You believe your interpretation of scriptures.
Its easy to prop yourself up when you say YOU believe scripture and not what this generation teaches as truth.
Its a wide sweep.
With gross exaggeration; you present a false premise.





 

mar09

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2014
4,927
1,259
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from post #119
It is only controversial to those who are not willing to accept the TRUTH of Scriptures.

lol, NOT a punishment. Tell yourself whatever you want, but the TRUTH of the matter it was most certainly a punishment for eating the forbidden fruit.

Which is the outcome of either a Blessing or a punishment. Have you not read the Old Testament at all? God clearly said over and over again, if you do good and keep my commandments i will give you rain, etc.... If you do not keep my commandments i will not give you rain etc..... You can call it what you want, in order to justify your own thinking, but for thousands of years, it was considered a punishment. Leave it to the last days generation to take what was clearly a PUNISHMENT, and turn it into a statement of certain consequences. lol that seriously made me laugh out loud.

lol, let me rephrase the question for only you then? When did the consequences of Eve's disobedience end according to Scriptures? A part of her consequences of her disobedience was to have painful child birth. Has that ended? Did that cease at the cross? Or do women to this very day still suffer the consequences of Eve's disobedience? Another consequence that God ordained for the woman was that her husband shall rule over her. Has this consequence ended, and if so, please tell me what Scriptures teaches that that part of the consequences of Eve's disobedience has ended. Just wanting some Scriptural references to that part of the consequences ending, no longer applies.

Please notice i am not stating or voicing my opinion at all what it means to RULE, therefore NOT giving any kind of interpretation concerning that.

OK, Finally someone has answered the question i presented. The Consequences of sin continues it has not ended.

^i^
hi dave, this thread has sure become long since I first read the first posts. frankly, I cannot read all of the next few pp now, but in response to this recent reply, I think one of the issues raised in some of the posts is to some ppl, discipline and punishment are 2 very different things. I have come to the point where I have understood discipline to be training done in love (and actually positive), whereas punishment is more the negative consequence, the opposite of reward or price. No, it may not matter or be clear to some, but it is like when parents and God loves children, they prune/discipline the child whereas when they are hopelessly disobedient and rebellious, it may be the point where they cannot prune anymore and punish or cut off completely.

What I understood God did in Genesis 3 is discipline, not punishment, if that makes it any clearer. Now the big lie and misinterpretation came when thru many generations in many cultures, childbirth has changed from the simple, physiologic function of delivering a child happily as it was in jewish and early Christian women's lives. Childbirth was never always painful as most modern cultures, and esp American births (bec.this forum is predominantly American I say this) are now. and as (is it coby) cited, there is natural childbirth whether it be waterbirth, Lamaze, etc where women most definitely did not take too long to give birth, and not painfully too. Idk if u came across that thread on less known Bible gems in the singles forum, but I simply shared some truths gained from learning abt and personally experiencing this so called birth. This reply isn't long, but it basically has to do w/ Gen.3.16 saying the hard work of adam and eve (both etsev in Hebrew) are not different in the sense that eve had to have pain and travail in childbirth while adam had to work hard to till the earth to get harvest of its fruit. I believe the Christian writer where I first learned of natural childbirth and who painstakingly traced the origin of the false teaching and 'experience' that all women are doomed to have painful and difficult births was led by the Lord to let not only other women, but men and fathers, teachers and preachers too, that well, childbirth is not all painful in all mgenerations and cultures as most Bible translations now depict...

Here, I normally would not talk or write too much, esp in a rush, for as we many of us know, it is easier to make mistakes that way. but this is something close to my heart, and wc I have studied in my simple, curious mind-- the whys, hows of birthing, wc I am sure many many other women worldwide would testify to that they did give birth w. a little hard work, but not painful at all in 3, 4 hrs, not always 10 or so as sometimes-- actually often-- depicted in movies or writings etc.
 

mar09

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2014
4,927
1,259
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My wife will be giving birth next month.
I'll let you know about God changing the pain in childbirth thing then.
If it would be of any help, she still has days to read and learn of natural childbirth. Idk know her birthing plans or if this is primipara or 2nd, etc.child, but if you both are still interested, do see what some Christian women writers who have personally experienced natural, not necessarily painless (but minimized pain) childbirths have to say. A very simple exercise given to women who want to prepare is the kegel exercise, also done by ppl w/ incontinence but wc strengthens pelvic muscles for easier delivery of child, as well as the basic breathing exercise, wc I know women from 16 (or younger) up can learn if they want to be helped in childbirth.
I hope ur wife has a safe delivery.
 
P

PurerInHeart

Guest
Some take it too far one way, and others too far the other way. A marriage is not a dog and master relationship- on either side. I've watched the tv show Everybody Loves Raman, and I do laugh at the jokes, but it sickens me that what started out as a joke has become a reality in most households now- the wife bossing around her husband, or even worse the children bossing around the parents.

But marriage is a partner relationship. Granted the wife is the weaker partner, but that does not give the husband the right to take out the word 'partner' altogether. According to some ways of thinking, Sarah would have been disobedient to Abraham when he said Ishmael must stay, and she said he must go. But God told Abraham to listen to his wife. She is not excluded from making big family decisions, nor is he. They need to sit down and discuss it together as partners.

And I've heard it said that a wife should only get an allowance and the husband controls all the money. This is not biblical. The proverbs 31 wife bought and sold land and her husband had full confidence in her to do so. Over the decades so many ideas and opinions have made and taught. Like the idea that women are less important than man.

If I had two children whom I caught doing the same thing wrong, and gave them two different punishments, that does not mean that one is more important than the other, or that I favor one over the other. The bible says in Christ there is no male or female, slave nor free, etc. He loves all His children the same and shows no favoritism.

So Adam and Eve got different punishments, so what? I think he got the worse one- hard physical labor his whole life? I would rather give natural child birth and get it over with. But what is shameful is that the man is forcing the woman to share in his punishment as well. Making her work so they have more money. But these are just roles we play on the earth. The bible says on the earth the one being served is the most important, but in the spiritual world it is the one who serves others the most.

Submitting vs obeying...

The bible uses a different word for wives and children, not the same word. In obeying you have no choice- you are told to do something, and if you do not do it you are sinning. Submitting is not obeying. Submit means she will give effort to promote him leading his family if he does so in a Godly way. If he wants her to do something that goes against the bible, she must obey God because she is His child and He is her God.

Christ never ever forces His bride into submission, it must be her choice, her decision. But I'll tell ya, if I had a husband like Christ I would want to submit to him. Guys may not know this, but God put a desire in a woman to want to please her man, IF he is loving and worthy of respect, and the opposite is true as well. If he is not loving or worthy of respect, she will have no desire to please him. And the bible says that if a man mistreats his wife He will not hear his prayers. He could be in the ocean with a shark approaching and scream for God to save him, but God will refuse to hear his prayer.

How did Jesus treat His bride? He fed her, clothed her, and died a torturous death to save her.

Even Jesus humbled Himself when He had every right to boast. If man (or woman) states that they are more important, they have already missed the mark.
 
Mar 3, 2016
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Hi,

As is with most details man does not read with the mind of The Lord , say I say to who was this written to seems most people say / think it applys to every one so again I,ll SAY. to whom did those writings apply get the facts right then read again simple seems not if we 6000 years later have to conform to your teaching then what Jesus did is of not matter or concern or means total nothing ,

Did not Jesus say as far as it concerns us there is no male or female in the ....SIGHT...OF The Most High .

That seems to be the issue and man still wonts control no matter what and when women bring this up man starts in with his idears of what was, not what is , Jesus has made this so well known it beggers belief .

who,s calling the kettle black .

The writings are history and to whom it concerned and when not some time latter as is being implied so often,

You prefer a law or command then you keep it don't place your law or commands on others fact is no one ever keep or could keep any so called
law,s


...noeleena...
 
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coby2

Guest
i am celibate for over 9 years because i choose to be. But you are right, if i were to ever get married again, i would want a woman who her whole desire in life is to please only God, and a woman who obeys the Word of God in everything. And Because i live in America, i don't think she exists.

^i^
Look in Brazil.
 
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coby2

Guest
You say it is the curse of Genesis. You do error. The only, ONLY thing that was cursed was the ground. Reread it and see for yourself, you are adding things that are not there. you are saying the punishment to the mand and woman was a curse, when that is not what it says at all, it merely says the ground is cursed, and because the Ground is cursed, the punishment for the man would begin. The punishments to the man and to the woman is NOT a curse, You do error ADDing to Scriptures your own interpretations.

^i^
Maybe you're right, although I wonder or don't know what you mean. That it hurts normally may not be a curse but the extreme stuff. That Rachel died was a curse. Jacob cursed her unknowingly. Insanity is part of the curse. PMS is demonic and a curse. Hebrew women didn't have extreme painful long deliveries. They had given birth before the women could come to them.
 
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coby2

Guest
You only submit to your husband because your husband is loving?
Yes of course she does. You have a choice whom to marry and if you even marry.
I don't tell you either to marry a hard core feminist and love her no matter what or one with a controlling demon who kicks you and refuses to cook. I saw one with T.B. Joshua, marriage from hell, my wife beats me up. The guy stayed with her and she got set free of the controlling demon and then she kneeled down and asked him to forgive her. Amazing, that guy. Lol but noone settles for that if you get the choice.
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
4,022
224
63
If it would be of any help, she still has days to read and learn of natural childbirth. Idk know her birthing plans or if this is primipara or 2nd, etc.child, but if you both are still interested, do see what some Christian women writers who have personally experienced natural, not necessarily painless (but minimized pain) childbirths have to say. A very simple exercise given to women who want to prepare is the kegel exercise, also done by ppl w/ incontinence but wc strengthens pelvic muscles for easier delivery of child, as well as the basic breathing exercise, wc I know women from 16 (or younger) up can learn if they want to be helped in childbirth.
I hope ur wife has a safe delivery.
I was actually being sarcastic. But this will be our 5th child and all have been done at home with many of the natural aids you mentioned. There is still pain, but it is a physical pain that is often overlooked because of the immense spiritual blessing throughout.

Regardless thank you for your prayers about her delivery!
 

proverbs35

Senior Member
Nov 10, 2012
825
239
43
@ discipledave:
He shall rule ( mashal, 4910 - exercise dominion, dominate) over you. Gen 3:16.

Men have and will generally rule (dominate) women until the 2nd coming of Christ. Men have generally ruled (dominated) women from Gen 3:16 - present time, and there are examples of that around the world.

Although the number of women leaders around the world has grown, they are still a small group
Number of women leaders around the world has grown, but they’re still a small group | Pew Research Center

About 40% of women murdered (which is a form of domination) worldwide are murdered by a male partner. WHO Study: Forty Percent of Murdered Women Killed By Their Partners | US News

At least a 3rd of all women murdered in th US are murdered (a form of domination) by male partners. Male Partners Behind a Third of all Women Murdered in America - Online News

Black women have a greater risk of being murdered (a form of ultimate domination) by their male partners as a result of domestic violence. Black women at greater risk of becoming victims of homicidal domestic violence | Dallas Morning News
There are plenty examples of that in my local community. Recently, we had at least 6 women killed by boyfriends in a 2-3 month period.

Human trafficking( mostly females) is the fastest growing. crime in the world. . Human Trafficking Is Still Globe's Fastest-Growing Crime Despite Increased Awareness

Currently , there are women all around the world being ruled , mastered, dominated. by men around them.

PRAISE GOD THAT NOT ALL MEN LIVE AND BREATHE SIMPLY TO RULE,MASTER,DOMINATE THE WOMEN AROUND THEM.
 

proverbs35

Senior Member
Nov 10, 2012
825
239
43
@ discipledave:

Since you are questioning if the men will rule, master, dominate women consequence (you say punishment) of Gen 3:16 has ended, I would like to answer your question further by providing some modern, real life examples of men ruling, master, dominating women from my own community:

Jury finds preacher. guilty of murdering wife, sexually abusing ( a form of domination) stepdaughter. Preacher told stepdaughter 'The Lord' covered her mother's dead body in freezer | AL.com

Handsome devil? Former Shelby Co. pastor convicted in shotgun. death of wife. Handsome devil? Case of former Shelby County pastor convicted in shotgun death of wife to be featured tonight on TV | AL.com
 

proverbs35

Senior Member
Nov 10, 2012
825
239
43
E

ember

Guest
Dave:

Originally Posted by ember

and alot of folks would like to take OUT of the Bible the parts that appeal to them the most


Agreed. Many take OUT all the parts that God had established for women from Adam and Eve. Many take OUT all the parts how a husband is treat his wife as well.

Taking out the part about putting God first and honoring Him, usually results in the rest of the taking out


Originally Posted by ember

A lot of men would
like to punish women..



True. Also a lot of women would like to punish men.

perhaps that could be the title of your next thread? thought this one concerned women...


Originally Posted by ember

Jesus told them to stop it


Jesus taught to Love One Another

well love would go a long way towards stopping it...yes? love covers a multitude of sins


Originally Posted by ember

He became a curse for us on the cross


This is True, but has nothing to do with the topic at hand. He becoming a curse for us, does not negate the Word of God, it does not negate how women are to treat their husband nor does it negate how husbands are to treat their wives. God set up order from the beginning. My Boss at work is no better than i am, but i know he is my Boss and i do what He tells me to do? Does that make me a slave? Heavens no. Does that make me less than my Boss? Heavens no. But he is my Boss and i do what he tells me to do. Strange we all obey our Bosses at work, but don't obey husbands at home, which God instructed to do. Willing do what our Boss tells us to do, and we are not Slaves. But if we obey husbands, then we are slaves and we can't have that.

uh...maybe you should check out the title of your thread...that is what most folks responded to...you titled this thread WOMENS PUNISHMENT etc...most women prob had a hard time getting past womens punishment...call me dense, but what you are saying now, does not line up with the title


Originally Posted by ember

yeah, the world still reels from sin, but God offers a new way


Again the NEW WAY does not negate how husbands and wives are to treat each other. The NEW WAY does not negate the Word of God.

no it doesn't.....however, God does not have the attitude to women that so many men have. Started back in the garden...when God faced A & E...Adam did not take any responsibility...he blamed Eve

that set a pattern that still operates...and there are 101 response to that statement guaranteed to put some people's teeth on edge

^i^
 
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