Works and Salvation

[notuptome]

and the scripture is clear....we are saved by grace through faith.......faith without works is dead....if one is saved by grace through faith then that faith must have works in order that they be saved...else that faith is alone and therefore dead and cannot save...
[SUP]
17 [/SUP]Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Correlation is not causation.

Dead faith is the faith that man has in himself. Living faith is from Gods word and is alive because of the presence of the Holy Spirit.

Works produced apart from the direct action of the Holy Spirit are dead works. Faith that is not produced by the Holy Spirit is dead faith, alone because God is not present. How sad a state..

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SeaBass]

You need to read verses 6 and 7 together. 1 John 1:6-7 - IF we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But IF we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. Walking in darkness is descriptive of lost unbelievers. Walking in the light is descriptive of saved believers. Only saved believers are in the light. Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me. 2 Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? Lost unbelievers walk in darkness, not in the light. Genuine saved believers walk in the light, not in darkness. IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's one or the other. There is no third camp of saved believers walking in darkness or lost unbelievers walking in the light.

Verse 6 does not change the fact verse 7 requires the Christian to do the obedient work of walking in the light so all his sins will be cleansed away.

-No obedient work of walking in the light = sins not cleansed away = lost
-Obediently walk in the light = all sins cleansed away = saved
-Therefore 'obedience unto righteousness' = saved

 

[SeaBass]

That statement is so idiotic as to defy description.

I repeat that it takes the Holy Spirit to be in Christ and to have Christ in you. That is right from the word of Jesus.

Your theology is man made and really insane. I use the term insane in the traditional fashion of loony.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Context shows Christ was promising the Comrforter to the apostles, also Acts 1:1-5 shows lthe baptism with the Holy Spirit was promised to the apostles, no one else.

One purpose of Christ sending the apostles the Comforter was " he (Comforter) shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." and " he will guide you into all truth." Jn 14:26; 16:13 The apostles were inspired by this Comforter, no one today is inspired as the apostles, whom the Holy Spirit gave them remembrance to all Christ said, all truth. One can just look at this forum at all the contradictions in what people believe to see they do not have all remembrance or guided to all truth. The Comforter is not the cause of all the contradiction and lack of truth seen today in the religious world.

 

[SeaBass]

Acts 5:31-33King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

[SUP]33 [/SUP]When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.

"obey Him"

 

[Straightshot]

"Context shows Christ was promising the Comrforter to the apostles, also Acts 1:1-5 shows lthe baptism with the Holy Spirit was promised to the apostles, no one else"


Some people limit context for manipulation

Let's add some more detail to the context:

Acts
2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.

 

[SeaBass]

If Christian walking in the light, then no need forgiveness. Forgiveness is only happen is christian fall, and not always walking in the light.

What do you mean walking in the light. Are the group of Vatican core leader who doing gang rape walking in the light?

Alberto Rivera in the 60'S make testimony every where that this kind of activity happen every years. No body believe then, not till caught in 2012.

Brother, you better think twice, the rule maker doing horrible thing like this, do you still believe what kind of law they produce?

The walking in the light is what brings about the forgiveness > having all sins cleansed away.

No walking in the light = no forgiveness.

What did John, inspired by the Holy Spirit, mean when he wrote "walk in the" light"? (I did not say it only quoted what John wrote)

The light is God's word, God's truth and one walks according to it. The light is what exposes one's sins yet only the sinless can have fellowship with perfectly Holy God. By obeying God's word > walking in the light > then Christ's blood CONTINUES to wash away ALL sins keeping the Christian spotless and blameless,( Eph 1:4; 2 Pet 3:14) where he can have fellowship with a perfectly Holy God.

 

[newbirth]

Correlation is not causation.

Dead faith is the faith that man has in himself. Living faith is from Gods word and is alive because of the presence of the Holy Spirit.

Works produced apart from the direct action of the Holy Spirit are dead works. Faith that is not produced by the Holy Spirit is dead faith, alone because God is not present. How sad a state..

For the cause of Christ
Roger

you are injecting your opinion into the scripture.....faith without works is dead...it is that simple... look at the example....
[SUP]
15 [/SUP]If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

[SUP]16 [/SUP]And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

it is believers he is talking to they have faith but no works....that is why he said faith without works is dead...he never mention no faith...you guys twist the scripture so much that you end up with ....no faith....All the explanation you give does not alter the fact that faith where ever you see it in the scripture is with works....if it has no works it is dead

 

[SeaBass]

"Context shows Christ was promising the Comrforter to the apostles, also Acts 1:1-5 shows lthe baptism with the Holy Spirit was promised to the apostles, no one else"


Some people limit context for manipulation

Let's add some more detail to the context:

Acts
2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.

This passage does not say people today are inspired as the writers of the bible were (2 Pet 1:21). Secondly, the contradictions among men also proves the Holy Spirit is not miraculously guiding them...God is not the author of confusion. Men are taught, hear and learn through the word of God which the Holy Spirit authored. When men read that word then they can understand (Eph 3:4) with no miraculous "illumination". Lastly, it's not my personal belief that the "gift of the Holy Spirit" is the Holy Spirit Himself but a gift the Holy Spirit gives. One can receive the gift of Seabass but they will not receive Seabass himself. One can receive the "gift of God" Rom 6:23 but that does not mean they are receiving God Himself.

 

[notuptome]

Context shows Christ was promising the Comrforter to the apostles, also Acts 1:1-5 shows lthe baptism with the Holy Spirit was promised to the apostles, no one else.

One purpose of Christ sending the apostles the Comforter was " he (Comforter) shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." and "he will guide you into all truth." Jn 14:26; 16:13 The apostles were inspired by this Comforter, no one today is inspired as the apostles, whom the Holy Spirit gave them remembrance to all Christ said, all truth. One can just look at this forum at all the contradictions in what people believe to see they do not have all remembrance or guided to all truth. The Comforter is not the cause of all the contradiction and lack of truth seen today in the religious world.

John 6:63 Apart from the Holy Spirit quickening you is dead Spiritually. Ephesians 1 underscores this truth. This is why none of these things make any sense to you. They are Spiritually discerned and are not understood by the unregenerate mind.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

you are injecting your opinion into the scripture.....faith without works is dead...it is that simple... look at the example....
[SUP]
15 [/SUP]If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

[SUP]16 [/SUP]And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

it is believers he is talking to they have faith but no works....that is why he said faith without works is dead...he never mention no faith...you guys twist the scripture so much that you end up with ....no faith....All the explanation you give does not alter the fact that faith where ever you see it in the scripture is with works....if it has no works it is dead

No, it is not a believer they are talking to.

It is a person who SAYS he is a believer.

do you think a believer, who has been forgiven of all things, would not try to help these people?

 

[newbirth]

No, it is not a believer they are talking to.

It is a person who SAYS he is a believer.

do you think a believer, who has been forgiven of all things, would not try to help these people?

you must think very hard before you write bro...it does not look good when you write rubbish...all you have to do is look at the beginning of the epistle to see who it was addressed to...that is not rocket science

James 1 King James Version (KJV)
1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

 

[Jackson123]

The walking in the light is what brings about the forgiveness > having all sins cleansed away.

No walking in the light = no forgiveness.

What did John, inspired by the Holy Spirit, mean when he wrote "walk in the" light"? (I did not say it only quoted what John wrote)

The light is God's word, God's truth and one walks according to it. The light is what exposes one's sins yet only the sinless can have fellowship with perfectly Holy God. By obeying God's word > walking in the light > then Christ's blood CONTINUES to wash away ALL sins keeping the Christian spotless and blameless,( Eph 1:4; 2 Pet 3:14) where he can have fellowship with a perfectly Holy God.

walking in the light is the will of God brother, But it's that make salvation by work?

Walking in the light is walking in the will of God isn't it?

Only after abide in Him a man able to walking in the light brother.

And a man will abide to Him after have a faith in Jesus.

 

[royalscot]

the more you post is the more you expose your ignorance....
Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

go back to your watchtower. you said repent in acts 2.

 

[newbirth]

go back to your watchtower. you said repent in acts 2.

actually Peter did....and he said the promise is for you also ...did you receive the promise?

 

[mailmandan]

Verse 6 does not change the fact verse 7 requires the Christian to do the obedient work of walking in the light so all his sins will be cleansed away.

Once again, IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's ONE OR THE OTHER. There is no third camp of saved believers walking in darkness or lost unbelievers walking in the light.

-No obedient work of walking in the light = sins not cleansed away = lost

Descriptive of lost unbelievers.

-Obediently walk in the light = all sins cleansed away = saved

Descriptive of saved believers.

-Therefore 'obedience unto righteousness' = saved

When we place our faith exclusively in Christ for salvation/believe the gospel by trusting in His finished work of redemption as the all sufficient means of our salvation, we then become "servants of obedience unto righteousness. "Believes unto righteousness" (Romans 10:10) "but to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness" (Romans 4:5) = saved. It doesn't sound like you will ever figure this out.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

you must think very hard before you write bro...it does not look good when you write rubbish...all you have to do is look at the beginning of the epistle to see who it was addressed to...that is not rocket science

James 1 King James Version (KJV)
1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

aww man, You had to go and do it didn't you.

You had to go and tell someone to do something you did not do. Lets see what James really says.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith

You see james is talking about people who make a claim that they have faith. Not that they actually do.

Yes he wrote the letter to the 12 tribes, and the churches who are scattered. But in any church, their are believers and unbelievers. One should not assume that everyone is saved, we ALWAYS have to direct our teachings and sermans to people assuming there are some in attendance who are not saved, even some people we may think are saved, yet are not.

 

[newbirth]

aww man, You had to go and do it didn't you.

You had to go and tell someone to do something you did not do. Lets see what James really says.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith

You see james is talking about people who make a claim that they have faith. Not that they actually do.

Yes he wrote the letter to the 12 tribes, and the churches who are scattered. But in any church, their are believers and unbelievers. One should not assume that everyone is saved, we ALWAYS have to direct our teachings and sermans to people assuming there are some in attendance who are not saved, even some people we may think are saved, yet are not.

you say you have faith....as everyone on this forum...so that someone is everyone who say they have faith without works...it is someone/anyone whose faith has no works..... it is dead...including those who say they are saved by faith without works...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

you say you have faith....as everyone on this forum...so that someone is everyone who say they have faith without works...it is someone/anyone whose faith has no works..... it is dead...including those who say they are saved by faith without works...

It is one thing to say you have faith and actually MEAN IT. it is a far other thing to say you have faith, but are either deceived or outright speaking a false truth.

Those who have faith WILL WORK.

Those who do not have faith (even if they say they have it) will prove it by their lack of works.

 

[newbirth]

It is one thing to say you have faith and actually MEAN IT. it is a far other thing to say you have faith, but are either deceived or outright speaking a false truth.

Those who have faith WILL WORK.

Those who do not have faith (even if they say they have it) will prove it by their lack of works.

faith comes by hearing bro ....that is why one must be a doer of the word not a hearer only...not everyone who hear the word do what the word says.....but everyone who hears the word receives faith.....

Romans 10:16-18King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

faith comes by hearing bro

Really? Like I did not know that. How can you possibly have faith in someone or something unless you first hear what they have to say.

That does not mean everyone who hears will have faith. Many may not believe a word said. Like many have heard the word. but does not believe a thing it says.

....that is why one must be a doer of the word not a hearer only...not everyone who hear the word do what the word says.....but everyone who hears the word receives faith.....

Sorry. But that is not true in the secular world. let alone in the spiritual word. You going to sit here and tell me you have faith in everyone who you have ever heard? You must have faith in me, you have heard my word. So why will you not do the work I have asked you to do??

Romans 10:16-18King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

and this proves everyone believes the word. Wow. The pharisees heard the word. they had so much faith in "the word" they killed him. (proving they not only did not have faith, they did not even believe him.

Do yuo ever think about what your saying?

why do you guys always want to make a religious word out of something, Faith is faith, do you even know what it means? Why don;t you share with us what it really means.