Works Complete Faith?

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Sep 23, 2023
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I don’t think it does. Look at what James said.

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works?
- So we see already that having faith does not equal works.

15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?

If you come to my door and ask for bread, and I open the door and tell you “I believe in Jesus, then shit the door…. My faith has produced no works.



1 Peter 4:8 King James Version (KJV)
And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

Are you suggesting that Muslims are not entitled to this covering because they are muslims?

Romans 2.14-16, “For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.

But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
1. Islam is only culturally considered "a faith", but, since they, by definition, do not believe God, Who testifies about His Son, we should say they have "an unbelief" whereby they blaspheme God as "liar" (1 Jn 5:10).

2. Romans 2 refers to believing Gentiles, not unsaved Gentiles--Paul is citing them as men who will be repaid eternal life for righteousness--because the Jewish believers were sneering at them, looking down on them, but Paul is saying, "Judgment will evaluate works, not ethnicity, so what are you going to do when those Gentiles you despise are justified for righteousness and you're condemned for hypocrisy?"
 
Sep 23, 2023
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I see others who have gotten their threads published, whereas mine are not being published. I can only guess the site owners are not happy with me because of my views that contradict theirs and are unassailable.

Therefore, I will start new threads here in this topic, and anyone who is interested can take the information and run with it.

The Original Jews Were White, and So Is Christ!
I really would not care about the color of Christ--as long as He gets me to God, and keeps me out of the fire, I DON'T CARE! :ROFL:--except that there are "Black Hebrew Israelites", in their most profound ignorance, lying on the topic, so I'd like to submit, for all your consideration, some evidence to the contrary.

Joseph's pyramid has been located, and... drumroll... he's not only White, but even has red hair. He was/is a GINGER! :ROFL:
Well, this makes perfect sense, actually, since his uncle, Esau, was born covered in red hair!

View attachment 256489
https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...b-jesus-christ-tomb-goshen-nile-god-proof-spt

Also, King David is, traditionally, even among the rabbis, understood as having had red hair.
King Jesus comes from that line of White gingers... very low likelihood He was Black! :LOL:

Again, if I believed He really was Black, I'd fight for that "truth", but I HIGHLY doubt it.

Actually, the most accurate depiction of Christ, according to many who claim to have seen Him, including myself, is Akiane Kramarik's "Prince of Peace".

View attachment 256488
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
You know, towards the end of his life Billy Graham started teaching that people in other religions can be saved and go to Heaven without going thru Jesus. (there are videos of him saying this you can find on youtube)

In fact it's sad, but more and more preachers are turning ecumenical and are teaching the same thing.

This will be a hallmark of the coming one world religion where they teach all religions lead to Heaven and those that claim Jesus Christ is the only way will be persecuted.
Revivalism tends to turn into universalism. This is what happens to those who doubt the efficacy of the gospel, they rely on human cleverness to cause anxiety and fear and thus bully a "decision for Christ" out of them. Ratjer tham speak the gospel and let the Holy Spirit plant faith into the person.
 

Bob-Carabbio

Well-known member
Jun 24, 2020
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1. Islam is only culturally considered "a faith",
FALSE!!! Islam isn't a "FAITH" at all - it's just a "Political/Theological system".

That goes for any "Ism" - "Methodism", "Pentecostalism", "Calvinism", etc. NONE Of them are "Faiths", they're "Theological systems".

FAITH is defined at Heb 11:1, and has nothing to do with "Denominations".

"Judgment will evaluate works,
FALSE!!! God's JUDGEMENT will evaluate whether or not a person has been BORN AGAIN by FAITH in Jesus' SIN offering.

Later in Heaven, Jesus' "judgement" will mete out rewards, based on what you DID with what you HAD.
 
Sep 23, 2023
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Incorrect!!! Islam isn't a "FAITH" at all - it's just a "Theology".

That goes for any "Ism" - "Methodism", "Pentecostalism", "Calvinism", etc. NONE Of them are "Faiths", they're "Theological systems".

FAITH is defined at Heb 11:1, and has nothing to do with "Denominations".



FALSE!!! God's JUDGEMENT will evaluate whether or not a person has been BORN AGAIN by FAITH in Jesus' SIN offering.

later in Heaven, Jesus' "judgement" will mete out rewards, based on what you DID with what you HAD.
Read Romans 2:6-16 and get back to me.
 

Bob-Carabbio

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Jun 24, 2020
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Uh, because I DO NOT hold to the lie that "good works automatically flow from 'true' faith"; I believe one can have faith but fail in their works? :ROFL:
So your "Faith" has no effect on what your deeds are, then???
 
Sep 23, 2023
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So your "Faith" has no effect on what your deeds are, then???
No, I never said that, I just said that it is not true that good works "automatically" flow from "true" faith--as if we could tell a "true" faith from a "false" faith, because the good works are set on autopilot after you believe.
 

Bob-Carabbio

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Jun 24, 2020
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I just said that it is not true that good works "automatically" flow from "true" faith.

James disagrees. If what you "CALL FAITH" produces NOTHING in your life in terms of practical positive outworking, then you HAVE NO FAITH - just "Religion".
 
Sep 23, 2023
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Not Under Law

"What does 'Under Law' mean?"
To be under the Sinai Covenant's terms and conditions.
It promises life to the righteous, and curses the unrighteous.
However, qualify as "righteous" means "perfectly righteous".
Just like a fighter is only "undefeated" if he has no losses.
When there is a single sin, you're cursed.

Who is "Under Law"?
Only the Jew is "under Law"; the Gentile is "without Law".
Thus only the Jew is "set free", by faith, from his legally binding obligation.
The Gentile is not "set free", by faith, since he has no obligation.
The same Law stipulates Jews are free upon dying.
The believing Jew shares in Christ's death, thus is set free.
"Through the Law I died to the Law": it's by the Law's dictate he is free.

"Oh, yeah? You're not 'under Law'? Can you commit idolatry?"
The Law was a means of righteousness, but was weak, relying on sinful flesh.
We are not under Law, but we ARE under Grace.
Those who walk by the Spirit do fulfill the Law's righteous requirement.

"'Under' in 'under Law' means 'condemned by', not 'under authority'."
The Greek for "under" means "under jurisdiction".
If 'under' means "condemned by", then we're "condemned by Grace".
How would that help us not be mastered/enslaved by Sin?
Not being "under Law" prevents that, since the Law is the strength of Sin.
Accordingly, the sketch of the unsaved Jew in Ro 7 shows him mastered by Sin.

"'Under Law' refers to something else other than Moses's Law--rabbinic Law, etc."
What is quoted after the following statement?
"You who desire to be under Law, do you not hear the Law?"
Is it rabbinic law? Some "abuse" of the Law?
No, Paul elaborates on the Abrahamic story.
That's in the Torah, so we know what "Law" Paul refers to.

"God's Law is eternal like God! If the Law changes God changes!"
Incest used to be a holy command. What else does "multiply" mean?
God made all mankind from Adam--brothers and sisters had to copulate.
Today, God prohibits incest--God's holy command is now God's prohibition.
Torah permitted "vows"; today, Jesus says they're "of the evil one".
Torah permitted *"any cause" divorce; today, Jesus says it's "adultery".
(*It got to the point where a Jew could divorce his wife for burning his food!)
So on and so forth. We know the Torah is full of such *concessions.
(*"You can beat your slave to death if he doesn't die the same day"!)

"But Paul proved to James that he kept Torah and walked orderly!"
Rahab was justified by a deed of faith. What was it? Oh, yeah: Lying.
"Do not bear false witness against your neighbor" is not "do not lie".
David also lied to the Philistine Kings.
Jesus said "be shrewd as serpents, innocent as doves".
So, Paul was innocent in his shrewdness.
He wasn't lying for personal gain, but for salvation of souls.
He also lied before the Sanhedrin: "I am a Pharisee!"
Was Paul a "Pharisee"? Well... yes and no.
So, did Paul walk orderly and keep the Law?
Well... yes and no.
He kept the righteous requirement by walking in the Spirit.
He did not cast a stumbling block before the blind.
Instead, he blended in, became a Jew to Jews, so they could believe.
"I became a Jew to the Jews, to those under Law as on under Law."
So, are there Jews in Jerusalem in 1st century AD? Yes!
So, does Paul have to keep from blowing his cover? Yes!
And the Law demands his death to the Law upon his dying.
So his deadness to the Law is IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE LAW.
So, tell me, is Paul "walking orderly and keeping Torah"? Yes!
So, it's not so bad he is "shrewd" and "proves it".
And, again, we know "vows" are offensive to God.
Any vows he seemed to have taken were artificial, for the Jews.
He did not take them "before God", seriously, that would've been sin.

Much more could be said, but this should get the discussion going.
 
Sep 23, 2023
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James disagrees. If what you "CALL FAITH" produces NOTHING in your life in terms of practical positive outworking, then you HAVE NO FAITH - just "Religion".
No, James merely compares the persuasiveness of a man's statement "I have faith" against the persuasiveness of a man's LIFE that says "I have faith" without him having to say anything.

Also, James says "religion" is good: "pure and undefiled religion before God is to take care of orphans and widows."
 
Sep 23, 2023
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The Original Jews Were White, and So Is Christ!
I really would not care about the color of Christ--as long as He gets me to God, and keeps me out of the fire, I DON'T CARE! :ROFL:--except that there are "Black Hebrew Israelites", in their most profound ignorance, lying on the topic, so I'd like to submit, for all your consideration, some evidence to the contrary.

Joseph's pyramid has been located, and... drumroll... he's not only White, but even has red hair. He was/is a GINGER! :ROFL:
Well, this makes perfect sense, actually, since his uncle, Esau, was born covered in red hair!


1696804613726.jpeg
https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...b-jesus-christ-tomb-goshen-nile-god-proof-spt

Also, King David is, traditionally, even among the rabbis, understood as having had red hair.
King Jesus comes from that line of White gingers... very low likelihood He was Black! :LOL:

Again, if I believed He really was Black, I'd fight for that "truth", but I HIGHLY doubt it.

Actually, the most accurate depiction of Christ, according to many who claim to have seen Him is Akiane Kramarik's "Prince of Peace".

1696804712329.png
 

Bob-Carabbio

Well-known member
Jun 24, 2020
1,591
797
113
No, James merely compares the persuasiveness of a man's statement "I have faith" against the persuasiveness of a man's LIFE that says "I have faith" without him having to say anything.
So - you've never read James, then???

Also, James says "religion" is good: "pure and undefiled religion before God is to take care of orphans and widows."
Wrong again. James DEFINES "Pure, and undefiled" religion. He NEVER says "ALL" religion is good.
 
Sep 23, 2023
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So - you've never read James, then???



Wrong again. James DEFINES "Pure, and undefiled" religion. He NEVER says "ALL" religion is good.
1. LOL I just explained James 2 to you. Don't know how I could have done that without having read it first!
2. Right, so "religion" can be good.
 
Sep 23, 2023
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So you've never read the book of Romans then???
Nope, my "fault" is that I read it all and believe it all--your "faultlessness" is that you believe just one sliver of it, over in chapter 3/4, and you deny the rest of it. Wish I could be faultless like you, but, woe is me, I believe it all.

Romans 2
6who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: 7to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11For there is no partiality with God.
12For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.
 
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