The tricky thing is that while works technically do not save in and of themselves alone, they do need to be present in a believer's life to show that their faith is true and genuine. The same would hold true concerning holiness in a believer's life. Are they occasionally indulging in sin thinking they are automatically forgiven of that sin and or that they will forever be a slave to their sin? If so, they are not going to make it because such thinking is condoning evil.
Works vs. Works
- Thread starter know1
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Works of faith have nothing to do with the fruit of the Spirit that is produced in your life to prove you are a true Christian.
Everyone is talking about works in general or the fruit of the Spirit that would show or prove them to be a child of God.
These good works are not works of faith, only good works of obedience to the commandments of God.
Everyone is talking about works in general or the fruit of the Spirit that would show or prove them to be a child of God.
These good works are not works of faith, only good works of obedience to the commandments of God.
There is yet another work.
It is the work of faith.
Again, works of faith have nothing to do with obedience to the laws of Christ. That being to love your neighbor as yourself.
Giving to them that are in need, tithing, helping the helpless, going to church, or anything else that most good Christian folk do.
A work of faith for salvation would be confessing Jesus as your lord in faith. When I say in faith I mean, believing the gospel in your heart and confessing the promise of God or the gospel that you believe, with your mouth. When you believe what God said and act on it specifically by your confession that speaks specifically about you believing Christ's work on the cross and making Him your lord.
After that, all the good works you do will be the Spirit of God moving through you, but those good works are not works of faith like the one of salvation mentioned above.
It is the work of faith.
Again, works of faith have nothing to do with obedience to the laws of Christ. That being to love your neighbor as yourself.
Giving to them that are in need, tithing, helping the helpless, going to church, or anything else that most good Christian folk do.
A work of faith for salvation would be confessing Jesus as your lord in faith. When I say in faith I mean, believing the gospel in your heart and confessing the promise of God or the gospel that you believe, with your mouth. When you believe what God said and act on it specifically by your confession that speaks specifically about you believing Christ's work on the cross and making Him your lord.
After that, all the good works you do will be the Spirit of God moving through you, but those good works are not works of faith like the one of salvation mentioned above.
And your point is specifically...what? Let's not split hairs. It's about distinguishing law and gospel. Good works is always to be understood to be in connection to God's law, which is "holy, and just, and good". Good works before or after justification are law-related. Works of any kind are not the gospel. So whatever works one want to include at any level for justification is a works-and merit based justification and not the gospel.
Good works cannot save, nor do they get prayers answered, nor do they get people healed, not can they deliver, but faith in action or works of faith, can and do all of the above mentioned.
When Peter walked on the water after Jesus bit him to come out on the water with Him, the action Peter took was a work of faith and not the fruit of the Spirit or a good work.
When Peter said to the man with the impotent feet, "In the name of Jesus Christ rise up and walk and then took the man by the hand and pulled him up, and his feet and ankles immediately received strength, that was a specific act or work of faith that not only spoke or said that he believed God would heal the impotent man, but proved his faith in God, the name of Jesus, and the promises of His word, when he took the man's hand and pulled him to his feet. Without the actions of Peter's faith, the man would not have been able to get healed. Peter's faith was specific and directed. It was towards that man's healing. That action that Peter took with the speaking and acting, IS A WORK OF FAITH.
Everything else that everyone is talking about has to do with obedience to the commandments of God, the fruit of the Spirit, good works, works of the flesh, or works of the law. All of these kind of works are general works. Again, works or acts of faith are directed at something or some situation, specifically. Works/acts of faith, which include speaking of things which be not as though they were, or what they believe in their heart, comes from believing the word or promises of God. Peter knew and acted on the promise that Jesus had given him, that he had power to heal in the name of Jesus. Peter acted on that word just like he did when Jesus told him to come out on the water. That action he took concerning the man's healing was not a good work that says he a child of God or born again. It was his faith WITH his works.
What you have written in James is merely a good work, not a work of faith. James was using that as an illustration of faith without corresponding action or works is useless. Specifically, an act that was directed at the area in need.
Please look at the example given concerning Peter healing the man at the gate and reply to what kind of action it was that he took. Was it a good work or a work of the law mentioned in Eph 2:8-9?
What kind of work was it?
When Peter walked on the water after Jesus bit him to come out on the water with Him, the action Peter took was a work of faith and not the fruit of the Spirit or a good work.
When Peter said to the man with the impotent feet, "In the name of Jesus Christ rise up and walk and then took the man by the hand and pulled him up, and his feet and ankles immediately received strength, that was a specific act or work of faith that not only spoke or said that he believed God would heal the impotent man, but proved his faith in God, the name of Jesus, and the promises of His word, when he took the man's hand and pulled him to his feet. Without the actions of Peter's faith, the man would not have been able to get healed. Peter's faith was specific and directed. It was towards that man's healing. That action that Peter took with the speaking and acting, IS A WORK OF FAITH.
Everything else that everyone is talking about has to do with obedience to the commandments of God, the fruit of the Spirit, good works, works of the flesh, or works of the law. All of these kind of works are general works. Again, works or acts of faith are directed at something or some situation, specifically. Works/acts of faith, which include speaking of things which be not as though they were, or what they believe in their heart, comes from believing the word or promises of God. Peter knew and acted on the promise that Jesus had given him, that he had power to heal in the name of Jesus. Peter acted on that word just like he did when Jesus told him to come out on the water. That action he took concerning the man's healing was not a good work that says he a child of God or born again. It was his faith WITH his works.
What you have written in James is merely a good work, not a work of faith. James was using that as an illustration of faith without corresponding action or works is useless. Specifically, an act that was directed at the area in need.
Please look at the example given concerning Peter healing the man at the gate and reply to what kind of action it was that he took. Was it a good work or a work of the law mentioned in Eph 2:8-9?
What kind of work was it?
I am not missing anything. You are merely trying to create a dichotomy between works and works (of faith) which in reality does not exist. Works of faith belongs solely to the new creation in Christ, i.e. the regenerate soul. They are the fruit of regeneration. Even faith inclusive. All those who are doing works of faith are already regenerate. And it was nothing in them, or their doing, which caused God to regenerate them, it was only through the grace and mercy of God, at His own will. If you are mixing in any kind of works in justification, and not acknowlegde that justification is solely the work of God, without the help of man, then risk is you are ignorant about the righteousness of God, as revealed in the gospel. Let noone confuse law, what man should do, with the gospel, what God has done and accomplished.
I will give you another example of a work of faith.
Let's use a situation I was in a short while back.
I had the flu for about a day and a half before I started to do something about it.
I won't go into the symptoms, but I will say, it was a nasty one.
Now, I'm going to describe my work of faith to get myself healed.
I know healing is mine, that it has already been done, that Jesus bore our sicknesses and carried our diseases in His own body on the cross. I also know that I have all power and authority over every spirit, and that they are subject to me through the name of Jesus, by the power of His word. I also know that God's word is power and that He watches over and hastens to perform His word.
So after knowing these things in my heart, I commanded that spirit to stop its work against me, speaking or sending God's word at the thing in the name of Jesus, (of which every knee must bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is lord to the glory of God) then reminded God of His promises and asked for Him to heal my body of the things the flu effected.
So according to Mk 11:24, I asked for my healing, believed I had received it when I prayed, and not when I felt better, then within a half an hour all the symptoms started to go away. Within another half hour all symptoms but one were gone. Then finally that last one left.
Did I do a good work.
No, it didn't have anything to do with someone else. It didn't have anything to do with the works of the law either. Nor was it a fruit or work of the Spirit, such as love, joy, peace, and so on.
Speaking God's word and commanding the evil spirit to leave in the Name of Jesus, was a work of faith.
Let's use a situation I was in a short while back.
I had the flu for about a day and a half before I started to do something about it.
I won't go into the symptoms, but I will say, it was a nasty one.
Now, I'm going to describe my work of faith to get myself healed.
I know healing is mine, that it has already been done, that Jesus bore our sicknesses and carried our diseases in His own body on the cross. I also know that I have all power and authority over every spirit, and that they are subject to me through the name of Jesus, by the power of His word. I also know that God's word is power and that He watches over and hastens to perform His word.
So after knowing these things in my heart, I commanded that spirit to stop its work against me, speaking or sending God's word at the thing in the name of Jesus, (of which every knee must bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is lord to the glory of God) then reminded God of His promises and asked for Him to heal my body of the things the flu effected.
So according to Mk 11:24, I asked for my healing, believed I had received it when I prayed, and not when I felt better, then within a half an hour all the symptoms started to go away. Within another half hour all symptoms but one were gone. Then finally that last one left.
Did I do a good work.
No, it didn't have anything to do with someone else. It didn't have anything to do with the works of the law either. Nor was it a fruit or work of the Spirit, such as love, joy, peace, and so on.
Speaking God's word and commanding the evil spirit to leave in the Name of Jesus, was a work of faith.
Can anyone tell me what kind of works the below list is?
What class or category would you put these acts in?
Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Heb 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
Heb 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Heb 11:11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
Heb 11:12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.
Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Heb 11:14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
Heb 11:18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
Heb 11:19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
Heb 11:20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
Heb 11:21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.
Heb 11:22 By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.
Heb 11:23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.
Heb 11:24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
Heb 11:25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
Heb 11:26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
Heb 11:27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
Heb 11:28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
Heb 11:29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.
Heb 11:30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.
Heb 11:31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
Heb 11:32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
Heb 11:33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,
Heb 11:34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
Heb 11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
Heb 11:36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
Heb 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
Heb 11:38 (Of whom the world was not worthy
they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
What class or category would you put these acts in?
Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Heb 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
Heb 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Heb 11:11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
Heb 11:12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.
Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Heb 11:14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
Heb 11:18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
Heb 11:19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
Heb 11:20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
Heb 11:21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.
Heb 11:22 By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.
Heb 11:23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.
Heb 11:24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
Heb 11:25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
Heb 11:26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
Heb 11:27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
Heb 11:28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
Heb 11:29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.
Heb 11:30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.
Heb 11:31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
Heb 11:32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
Heb 11:33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,
Heb 11:34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
Heb 11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
Heb 11:36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
Heb 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
Heb 11:38 (Of whom the world was not worthy
they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
Sorry brother but I have to respectfully disagree. At the time of my salvation I did like the "idea" of Jesus and what I thought He stood for, but I was doing nothing at all to try to live in a way pleasing to Him. All I did to be saved was break totally. I came to the truth that after 33 years of my life I had built nothing, and at that point thought there was no hope of me ever doing so. I wasn't crying out to God specifically and to be honest at this point wasn't even sure I wanted to believe there was a God at all anymore. That day I hit my knees and cried out, not for God and not for Jesus, but just cried out that "I" couldn't do it anymore, the world wins, I lose, and I quit. Up to that point I had lived for me, even though I called myself Christian and thought I was, I had never known Him at all. I still had the idea that these were just good man made rules to live by and if you did your life would be basically good. Imagine my surprise when I woke up the next day and the suicidal thoughts that had plagued me every 5 minutes for the last 2 years since I lost the use of my right (dominate) arm were completely gone.
To be honest it took me a couple days to put together what happen to me, and after that I walked around for about 8 weeks with my jaw wide open realizing how LITTERALLY truth Jesus was. I did nothing for my salvation beforehand. All I "did" was get to a place I knew that "I" couldn't do it anymore, period. That being said, I was made a whole new creature that day and have been doing what most here would call works since. Every so called “work” I do now is in complete gratitude for our salvation, and I would never do them on my own without His Spirit inside me. So I really don’t see them as “my” works anyway, but they are a result of Him that lives inside me now. So I really agree with both sides on a lot of this debate and feel if we didn’t talk past each other so much and acted in love like we are called to, that we would see that are views really aren’t as far apart as one would think reading these threads. Just my view, thanks for reading.
To be honest it took me a couple days to put together what happen to me, and after that I walked around for about 8 weeks with my jaw wide open realizing how LITTERALLY truth Jesus was. I did nothing for my salvation beforehand. All I "did" was get to a place I knew that "I" couldn't do it anymore, period. That being said, I was made a whole new creature that day and have been doing what most here would call works since. Every so called “work” I do now is in complete gratitude for our salvation, and I would never do them on my own without His Spirit inside me. So I really don’t see them as “my” works anyway, but they are a result of Him that lives inside me now. So I really agree with both sides on a lot of this debate and feel if we didn’t talk past each other so much and acted in love like we are called to, that we would see that are views really aren’t as far apart as one would think reading these threads. Just my view, thanks for reading.
E
1. A work is a work is a work. Something done in order to gain something (a salary, notoriety, a reward etc etc)
2. A work of faith is not a work. Because it is not done in order to gain anything, It is Gods love being poured out in us and empowering us to do something, Not for self gain, not to earn something, not to puff ourselves up. but to do what we were created to do in the first place (eph 2: 10)
2. A work of faith is not a work. Because it is not done in order to gain anything, It is Gods love being poured out in us and empowering us to do something, Not for self gain, not to earn something, not to puff ourselves up. but to do what we were created to do in the first place (eph 2: 10)
E
Can anyone tell me what kind of works the below list is?
What class or category would you put these acts in?
Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Heb 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
Heb 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Heb 11:11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
Heb 11:12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.
Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Heb 11:14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
Heb 11:18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
Heb 11:19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
Heb 11:20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
Heb 11:21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.
Heb 11:22 By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.
Heb 11:23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.
Heb 11:24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
Heb 11:25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
Heb 11:26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
Heb 11:27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
Heb 11:28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
Heb 11:29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.
Heb 11:30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.
Heb 11:31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
Heb 11:32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
Heb 11:33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,
Heb 11:34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
Heb 11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
Heb 11:36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
Heb 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
Heb 11:38 (Of whom the world was not worthy they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
What class or category would you put these acts in?
Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Heb 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
Heb 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Heb 11:11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
Heb 11:12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.
Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Heb 11:14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
Heb 11:18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
Heb 11:19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
Heb 11:20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
Heb 11:21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.
Heb 11:22 By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.
Heb 11:23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.
Heb 11:24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
Heb 11:25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
Heb 11:26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
Heb 11:27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
Heb 11:28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
Heb 11:29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.
Heb 11:30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.
Heb 11:31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
Heb 11:32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
Heb 11:33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,
Heb 11:34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
Heb 11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
Heb 11:36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
Heb 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
Heb 11:38 (Of whom the world was not worthy
they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
a work of faith, because non of these people expected one thing in return for what they did. they did it out of faith and love.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
The above underlined are fruits of the Spirit.
If you look at Hebrews 11, do you see any similarities between the acts of faith written and the fruit of the Spirit in Galations?
If you do, please point them out.
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
The above underlined are fruits of the Spirit.
If you look at Hebrews 11, do you see any similarities between the acts of faith written and the fruit of the Spirit in Galations?
If you do, please point them out.
Amen! We are saved FOR good works, not by good works.
Works of faith/works done out of faith are good works. We SHOW our faith by our works (James 2:18).
So you are saying that Peter was saved through faith AND by walking on water, a work of faith? So how many works of faith does it take to save us? How many works of faith must we accomplish and add to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to help Him save us?
So you are saying that Peter was a lost man UNTIL this work of faith was accomplished and Peter was saved by this work of faith and this work of faith was not a good work? So it was a bad work? Who was it that actually did the work of healing the man? Peter or Jesus?
You are trying to split hairs in an effort to teach salvation by works. We are saved through faith, and not by works in general. You are trying to say we are not saved by those works but we are saved by these works. It's still salvation by works.
James said I will SHOW you my faith BY my works, so James is not only talking about good works but these works are done out of faith, not out of unbelief.
It was a good work done out of faith, not to be detached from the moral aspect of the law. Again, you seem to be splitting hairs in an effort to "add" some type of works to saved through faith, not works. Paul did not say that we are saved by grace through faith and works, or saved through faith and works of the law, or saved through faith and works of faith, or saved through faith and good works, or saved through faith and works of righteousness which we have done in Ephesians 2:8,9. He simply said saved by grace through FAITH, NOT WORKS. Why can't you accept that? Quit trying to "shoe horn" works "into" salvation through faith, not works and accept the truth.
Works of faith/works done out of faith are good works. We SHOW our faith by our works (James 2:18).
So you are saying that Peter was saved through faith AND by walking on water, a work of faith? So how many works of faith does it take to save us? How many works of faith must we accomplish and add to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to help Him save us?
So you are saying that Peter was a lost man UNTIL this work of faith was accomplished and Peter was saved by this work of faith and this work of faith was not a good work? So it was a bad work?
Who was it that actually did the work of healing the man? Peter or Jesus?You are trying to split hairs in an effort to teach salvation by works. We are saved through faith, and not by works in general. You are trying to say we are not saved by those works but we are saved by these works. It's still salvation by works.
James said I will SHOW you my faith BY my works, so James is not only talking about good works but these works are done out of faith, not out of unbelief.
It was a good work done out of faith, not to be detached from the moral aspect of the law. Again, you seem to be splitting hairs in an effort to "add" some type of works to saved through faith, not works. Paul did not say that we are saved by grace through faith and works, or saved through faith and works of the law, or saved through faith and works of faith, or saved through faith and good works, or saved through faith and works of righteousness which we have done in Ephesians 2:8,9. He simply said saved by grace through FAITH, NOT WORKS. Why can't you accept that? Quit trying to "shoe horn" works "into" salvation through faith, not works and accept the truth.
E
well lets see.
Abel offered a sacrifice out of love, and goodness and faith.
Enoch. Without faith impossible to please God
Noah, Out of faith, goodness and longsuffering built the ark. then lived in it for well over a year.
All works of faith come from the fruit of the spirit. without the fruit of the spirit. these works (even if they are the same works) are carnal works. not works of faith
Abel offered a sacrifice out of love, and goodness and faith.
Enoch. Without faith impossible to please God
Noah, Out of faith, goodness and longsuffering built the ark. then lived in it for well over a year.
All works of faith come from the fruit of the spirit. without the fruit of the spirit. these works (even if they are the same works) are carnal works. not works of faith