Would you walk out of your church if a woman missionary came to pulpit to speak ?

[GreenNnice]

BryanSoupCampbell:

If she is giving a testimony, she is giving a testimony. It is a blessing that she was a missionary and evangelized, and now shares her story to teach us, but the letter to Timothy is most likely talking about teaching doctrine from the pulpit. In 1 Timothy 2:12-15 says,

That's the problem, she is teaching doctrine, she's incorporating it into her speaking. She has to, I mean, how does one go up and speak to a congregation without saying things of how they believe in Jesus? Anyway, yes, she is going to teach AND preach up there, telling of the glorious wonders God did in the African Village and how she saw the Truth of 2 Peter 3:9 "...that none shouild perish.'

---------------
Order, did someone say the word 'order,' I think, it was, hark! I think it was a legendarymaleman, LOL. You speak of God's order, which is 1 Tim. 2:13 verse, did you know? Anyway, there is also verse 14, that speaks of woman being the one who 'sinned,' or 'transgressed,' NOT man. Now, you want to mutilate the context, I know, I know, but, don't, these TWO verses speak of one succinct thought, and , nothing should you INFER that the woman is not capable of teaching men because she is more VULNERABLE. She simply is not the preferred order, LOL, of God's natural selection, LOL, again.

------------------------
What kind of person do you want to be, guys who don't think this missionary lady can speak to everyone of her exploits in Katmandou, or, wherever ?? Don't you THINK that God would want her to edify the church by speaking to everyone about God's work in the area she was in ? You think ? Oh, I hope you do
-------------------

Oh, by the way, I went through the posts and counted up the responses, and, since no poll was done (accidentally), I will say this :

We have 10 for 'Yes.' Oh, by the way, legendary, you said 'yes,' didn't you, that was your first response, I always go with the first response, that's your best one they say

And, TWO said that she just is not by their churches rules allowed to speak, it's not in their church's R&R's (rules and regs) .

Ok, then, so, I guess, we are 100% FOR this woman speaking in the church.

Again, those that voted 'she would never be at the pulpit' are welcome to go out on their own and vote, 'yes' or 'no,' but, please, using your rules aned regulations, you must understand, keeps your vote from being valid

10 : Yes.
0: No.

This missionary woman can speak , and, OH, by the way, someone said 'no,' because there husband would be with them. Well, GUESS WHAT, let's just say, that this woman missionary is speaking alongside her husband who went to this Africa village with her

So, yes, I make no mistakes, for those who THOUGHT I was making a mistake 10 YEA and ZERO NAY
God bless you for your good voting and letting this woman speak like crazy of how God blessed all who were around her and her husband as they BOTH led so many to Christ with preaching and speaking and teaching the holy fire words of God and, ,let
me
tell
you,

in her time up there she is calmly yet effectively giving her presentation with all power and authority of her handiwork said things GIVEN to the glory of God

 

[oldhermit]

I have never been able to comprehend how people can believe that the logical argument can somehow overturn and nullify the text. I just checked my Bible and yep, its still there. No one has explained it away yet. "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man but to be silent." Scripture is forever equidistant to time. It means the same thing now that it meant the day it was revealed. It is forever equicultural. It means the same thing in every culture. Scripture is never contingent upon time, history, events, situations, or culture. It is contingent solely upon the character of God who gave it.

 

[Bryancampbell]

Lol thanks for the name I'll send you a can of chicken noodles next time

 

[GreenNnice]

If you were male, would you listen to her if she:
gave her testimony in your church's fellowship hall behind a podium in front of that same Sunday church crowd?

gave her testimony at your small group Bible study?

gave her testimony standing on a large rock in the garden or parking lot of your church in front of that same Sunday church crowd?

wrote her testimony in the form of a book?

authored a blog that contained her testimony?

I could go on and on and on and on.

And me too, oldherm .

And, yes, all those places, SHE is speaking, not just in front of the pulpit, she is speaking in front of a rather large rock, in fact, she is sitting on it and speaking, not standing, oh, no, she might fall off.

Oh yes, she is speaking , she's a missionary who went on a mission from God, with her husband, and, they are back and they are telling their stories.

but, yeah, I might be tooo coooooool saying that the husband is with this missionary woiman, let's just say she is and she isn't, BOTH scenarios, because that makes more sense to me. but, yes, she is speaking all kinds of places , oldherm, and, MEN are listening, everywhere. Sounds like 1 Tim. 2 to me.

Hopefully, I'm not being tooo coool when I say all this stuff

 

[woka]

Yes ladies I am a women, and us women can still today be emotionally driven and not logically driven, for this reason I think Paul made reference as he did. Yes the women of the time were not educated as we are today, but so often I have sat an listened to women share and even I get a bit sidetracked in my thinking wondering when the point is coming.

Does it make me mean to say this????? I like the direction and directness a man talks with, He says what needs to be said there is always purpose.

Sorry to offend just wanted to give my 10 cents worth, hope I wasn;t being to emotional....lol

 

[GreenNnice]

Gulp, I don't know if I should really say this because the Scripture is irrefutable that we do NOT know God's thoughts nor mind of doing things, His intentions we do not know. But, yeah, does this Scripture

et the wicked forsake his way And the unrighteous man his thoughts; And let him return to the LORD, And He will have compassion on him, And to our God, For He will abundantly pardon. 8"For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," declares the LORD. 9"For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.…

usurp this Scripture :

I have never been able to comprehend how people can believe that the logical argument can somehow overturn and nullify the text. I just checked my Bible and yep, its still there. No one has explained it away yet. "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man but to be silent." Scripture is forever equidistant to time. It means the same thing now that it meant the day it was revealed. It is forever equicultural. It means the same thing in every culture. Scripture is never contingent upon time, history, events, situations, or culture. It is contingent solely upon the character of God who gave it.

oh, the minds of men, tsk, tsk, I so often wonder what are they coooly trying to think in 'His garden.' Not cool, not cool

 

[oldhermit]

In all of this debate I have not yet seen anyone address the definition laid down in the text for what is regarded as "having authority." It is so easy to understand. Is she speaks, she is exercising authority. It does not matter what she speaks. If she is silent, she is exercising humility. This needs no other defense.

 

[GreenNnice]

Yes ladies I am a women, and us women can still today be emotionally driven and not logically driven, for this reason I think Paul made reference as he did. Yes the women of the time were not educated as we are today, but so often I have sat an listened to women share and even I get a bit sidetracked in my thinking wondering when the point is coming.

Does it make me mean to say this????? I like the direction and directness a man talks with, He says what needs to be said there is always purpose.

Sorry to offend just wanted to give my 10 cents worth, hope I wasn;t being to emotional....lol

Women are ssooooooooo DUMB . DUMB-DEE-DUMB-DUMB, DUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

------
hey , pacladywokawoka , that was so biased Nothing further, just was sooooooo biased, had nothing to do with this missionary woman being allowed to speak in front of her congreagation filled with women AND MEN either Of that, I am sad to say makes this post not having listened to the OP, asking for a 'yes' or a 'no.'

Oh, you still got time ! Can she ? Can she ?

 

[Glen]

I have no comment on the response. But the female preacher would certainly be unbiblical!

 

[Misty77]

Please someone explain this to me: why are women are given intelligence if we are not allowed to fully use it for God? To put things factually, I am smart. I graduated valedictorian in high school in 3 years and while I eagerly gain knowledge from different types of people, it is common for me to be more versed on a subject than most of the male leadership in churches I have attended (not the case in my current church). Granted, even intelligent people are experts in differing subjects. So why would God even bother making me smart if I am just supposed to "know my place" and be quiet?

For the record, anytime I need to discuss a difference of interpretation, I do so humbly and respectfully and never in front of a group of people. And I am familiar with the option of teaching women and children, but I find that most other women (not all) are more willing to discuss how a verse makes them feel or ways to make people feel welcome (all good things, btw) while I am itching to discuss the origins of trinitarianism or other ideas that make my friends' eyes glaze over. I am left starved for intellectual stimulation regarding theology, which is why I am here. I made the top grades in my theology classes, but why does my indoor plumbing severely limit the forums in which I can use that knowledge?

 

[Nuns_n_roses]

No. I've listened to women speakers in church before. I would love to be a missionary some day (not preaching in a church but location) and I am a woman. We can all offer each other new wisdom if we remain open minded. If we abide by every law as a Pharisee does but dismiss another's words, where is our mercy?

 

[oldhermit]

Please someone explain this to me: why are women are given intelligence if we are not allowed to fully use it for God? To put things factually, I am smart. I graduated valedictorian in high school in 3 years and while I eagerly gain knowledge from different types of people, it is common for me to be more versed on a subject than most of the male leadership in churches I have attended (not the case in my current church). Granted, even intelligent people are experts in differing subjects. So why would God even bother making me smart if I am just supposed to "know my place" and be quiet?

For the record, anytime I need to discuss a difference of interpretation, I do so humbly and respectfully and never in front of a group of people. And I am familiar with the option of teaching women and children, but I find that most other women (not all) are more willing to discuss how a verse makes them feel or ways to make people feel welcome (all good things, btw) while I am itching to discuss the origins of trinitarianism or other ideas that make my friends' eyes glaze over. I am left starved for intellectual stimulation regarding theology, which is why I am here. I made the top grades in my theology classes, but why does my indoor plumbing severely limit the forums in which I can use that knowledge?

This has nothing to do with intelligence or the lack thereof nor does it have anything to do with one's educational level. It doesn't even have anything to do with one's skills or talents. It is simply recognizing the divinely appointed functions and limitations that God himself has place within the Church. Even men in the Church are given restriction and limitation that are not to be trifled with or ignored.

 

[GreenNnice]

In all of this debate I have not yet seen anyone address the definition laid down in the text for what is regarded as "having authority." It is so easy to understand. Is she speaks, she is exercising authority. It does not matter what she speaks. If she is silent, she is exercising humility. This needs no other defense.

The word 'pastor' is NEVER used in 1 Timothy 2, oldherm. What part of 'never' don't you understand?

Again, maybe, I'm sounding to cool , and, to which, the Lord leads, I want to say I am cool and calm when defending things of Scripture that say what I KNOW they say and don't say what you KNOW they say, LOL

I think, I deserved that 'cool' there, wasn't gonna, but..... well, yeah, done deal


Women are not allowed to teach authority or have authority over a man in a place of worship .

OK, so this is what you THINK Scripture says. OK, then, why doesn't Paul use the word, 'never,' instead of 'not allowed,' now, no, no, don't go spewing your gnashed teeth saliva at me yet, that's a legit Q, don't ya think

And, also, when Scripture says, in verse after 1 Tim. 2:12 of women no authority over man fame, THAT women is sitted in a proper order, behind man, no Yes, she is BEHIND MAN in the order, just as legendarymaleman said in his post not tooo long ago .

Man was FORMED first, then, Eve. And, to compound matters, woman sinned and NOT man. But, to bring a TRANSFERENCE of woman's sinning and formed SECOND to man with a woman being able to TEACH of the bible and PREACH of the bible to a man is.......

........ludefisk ! You betcha, you betcha Now, that last said thing was sooo far from ludicrously cooool, I can't even put a word on it , indescribable, but, definitely, not like our God , our beautiful, Loving, full-tilt saving Saviour, Jesus Christ

Now, don't TILT! what I said, it's shaken from Him inside me and is what I AM using to 'stir this pot' of naivety on women.

But, you did say that this missionary woman can speak in front of the pulpit, or, let's just say 90% did of the 10 who said things on PAGe 1 .

*Green prays he's not saying things too cooly with all this being said, of this dead-serious subject that's of God's Love for us all said just the way it;'s been said, for God says "Love is the greatest." Faith? Hope"? Meh, eh, nay, not so much. But, Love ! Ahhhh yes, Love, Love, Love, all we need is His Love in us, it WILL make the world go round and round, like a record, baby, right round.

So, no to Scripture, don't rat on me that , it's ALREADY been said DEAD in enough threads on here to kill a whole bunch of RATT musicians. But, ahhh ,yes, Love, that is what God wants, that we can all agree on in likemindedness, can we not.

One thing I think we all can agree on in this mess of women missionaries and everything else: Love

===========
Finally, all of you, be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble. 9Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult. On the contrary, repay evil with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing. 10For,“Whoever would love life
and see good days
must keep their tongue from evil
and their lips from deceitful speech.
11They must turn from evil and do good;
they must seek peace and pursue it.
12For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous
and his ears are attentive to their prayer,
but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil.”[SUP]a[/SUP]

Ah, YES!!! That;s the kind of 'Love,' I'm talkin' 'bout, baby

*Wow. Green thinks to himself, glad that he is not a girl preaching all this stuff because it would make no sense, it would be TABOO, too; it would sound like Pac-man going through the 'dots' maze, 'woka-woka-woka-woka,' or, er, Pac-lady , rather.

 

[GreenNnice]

I believe it’s great for Christian women to be involved in missionary work with their husband, e.g., consider Priscilla and Aquila, or in a Missions Team under the supervision of the church. Also, coming up to the pulpit to share their testimony is fine provided that they were appointed to do so by the pastor of the church. The idea is that women are not to serve as pastors or elders of a church, and it’s not a matter of human rights or sexism. We are to accept and yield to God's decrees as believers.

Cheers

And, it's a GREAT idea, starryfields, that's how God laid out His order, for man to be first WITH AUTHORITY and woman, second.

Caps, for emphasis, I never yell at miladies

But, that's not the only idea, milady, is it? We can agree on that.

Although Paul has a GREAT IDEA here, and, suffers NOT a woman to teach authority or have authority over a man, this is NOT the only idea is it. Or, does Scripture say the word 'never' in 1 Tim. 2:12? Hmm, let me check the holy inspired Word of God's verse on this one. Nope. Does not say 'never,' don't we all soooo wish Paul had chose the word ' never' and not 'suffer' or 'permit' or whatever 1 A.D. word Paul used.

-----
huckberryfinn:

A "male" pastor? A pastor is by definition a man.
Concerning the OP, I wouldn't have to make that decision,
because no woman would be at the pulpit unless she were
standing with her husband helping him, or it was a ladies-only meeting

And, the word 'pastor' is by defnition referring to a male? Huckberryrasps, did you REALLY just say that? Hmm, let me check Websters ? Nope.

Hmmm, let me check the bible, looking at some words like 'bishop' and 'deacon' and whatever else could be miscontrued as a a male-only word. Nope. Nada. Uh-uh. No, no, noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

Hopefully, by now, we're all understanding the definition of the word 'no'

 

[oldhermit]

The word 'pastor' is NEVER used in 1 Timothy 2, oldherm. What part of 'never' don't you understand?

Again, maybe, I'm sounding to cool , and, to which, the Lord leads, I want to say I am cool and calm when defending things of Scripture that say what I KNOW they say and don't say what you KNOW they say, LOL

I think, I deserved that 'cool' there, wasn't gonna, but..... well, yeah, done deal


Women are not allowed to teach authority or have authority over a man in a place of worship .

OK, so this is what you THINK Scripture says. OK, then, why doesn't Paul use the word, 'never,' instead of 'not allowed,' now, no, no, don't go spewing your gnashed teeth saliva at me yet, that's a legit Q, don't ya think

And, also, when Scripture says, in verse after 1 Tim. 2:12 of women no authority over man fame, THAT women is sitted in a proper order, behind man, no Yes, she is BEHIND MAN in the order, just as legendarymaleman said in his post not tooo long ago .

Man was FORMED first, then, Eve. And, to compound matters, woman sinned and NOT man. But, to bring a TRANSFERENCE of woman's sinning and formed SECOND to man with a woman being able to TEACH of the bible and PREACH of the bible to a man is.......

........ludefisk ! You betcha, you betcha Now, that last said thing was sooo far from ludicrously cooool, I can't even put a word on it , indescribable, but, definitely, not like our God , our beautiful, Loving, full-tilt saving Saviour, Jesus Christ

Now, don't TILT! what I said, it's shaken from Him inside me and is what I AM using to 'stir this pot' of naivety on women.

But, you did say that this missionary woman can speak in front of the pulpit, or, let's just say 90% did of the 10 who said things on PAGe 1 .

*Green prays he's not saying things too cooly with all this being said, of this dead-serious subject that's of God's Love for us all said just the way it;'s been said, for God says "Love is the greatest." Faith? Hope"? Meh, eh, nay, not so much. But, Love ! Ahhhh yes, Love, Love, Love, all we need is His Love in us, it WILL make the world go round and round, like a record, baby, right round.

So, no to Scripture, don't rat on me that , it's ALREADY been said DEAD in enough threads on here to kill a whole bunch of RATT musicians. But, ahhh ,yes, Love, that is what God wants, that we can all agree on in likemindedness, can we not.

One thing I think we all can agree on in this mess of women missionaries and everything else: Love

===========
Finally, all of you, be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble. 9Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult. On the contrary, repay evil with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing. 10For,“Whoever would love life
and see good days
must keep their tongue from evil
and their lips from deceitful speech.
11They must turn from evil and do good;
they must seek peace and pursue it.
12For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous
and his ears are attentive to their prayer,
but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil.”[SUP]a[/SUP]

Ah, YES!!! That;s the kind of 'Love,' I'm talkin' 'bout, baby

*Wow. Green thinks to himself, glad that he is not a girl preaching all this stuff because it would make no sense, it would be TABOO, too; it would sound like Pac-man going through the 'dots' maze, 'woka-woka-woka-woka,' or, er, Pac-lady , rather.

I did not understand even half of anything you said in this post. No, I did not say that a missionary woman can speak in front of the pulpit. The simple fact is that Paul said she is not permitted to speak in the Church. That means then or now or 2000 years from now.

 

[maxwel]

Please someone explain this to me: why are women are given intelligence if we are not allowed to fully use it for God? To put things factually, I am smart. I graduated valedictorian in high school in 3 years and while I eagerly gain knowledge from different types of people, it is common for me to be more versed on a subject than most of the male leadership in churches I have attended (not the case in my current church). Granted, even intelligent people are experts in differing subjects. So why would God even bother making me smart if I am just supposed to "know my place" and be quiet?

For the record, anytime I need to discuss a difference of interpretation, I do so humbly and respectfully and never in front of a group of people. And I am familiar with the option of teaching women and children, but I find that most other women (not all) are more willing to discuss how a verse makes them feel or ways to make people feel welcome (all good things, btw) while I am itching to discuss the origins of trinitarianism or other ideas that make my friends' eyes glaze over. I am left starved for intellectual stimulation regarding theology, which is why I am here. I made the top grades in my theology classes, but why does my indoor plumbing severely limit the forums in which I can use that knowledge?

Misty,

I'm sure you're a very nice girl, and you have nothing but the best intentions.

Let me just point out one thing.
In the New Testament, there are qualifications listed for being a pastor.
Nowhere in these qualifications is "intellect" ever mentioned.
Intellect is never mentioned.
Not once.
The qualifications are all about character.

So...
before we even have this conversation about who should be in what ministry,
the first thing is to recognize that intellect is not a determining factor.

It's wonderful that God has blessed you with a great mind...
truly,
but a great mind has nothing to do with serving God.

Our focus needs to be on other things...
for all of us.

God Bless
Max

 

[Bryancampbell]

Green, Pastor is literally the word Shepherd which refers to a male.

 

[Misty77]

This has nothing to do with intelligence or the lack thereof nor does it have anything to do with one's educational level. It doesn't even have anything to do with one's skills or talents. It is simply recognizing the divinely appointed functions and limitations that God himself has place within the Church. Even men in the Church are given restriction and limitation that are not to be trifled with or ignored.

So in your opinion, I should just sit down, shut up, and waste my mind on temporal pursuits. Deborah should have just stayed home, Anna could have enjoyed retirement, and Phillips daughters should have been more concerned about finding husbands.

 

[GreenNnice]

In your church the missionary woman is not allowed to speak, 'then, now, or 2000 years from now' or what you said, in your words.

Got it?

Pathetic and paltry and a weird, weird, way of doing things, in my opinion, but, you do things your way and God will do things His way , like He says He WANTS to do in Isaiah 58

"My thoughts are higher than your thoughts and my ways are not your ways."

Not being too cool for you, am I ? If I am, sorry, but, I am just cooly speaking the words of God in Scripture, where there can be no mistake that God forgives and blesses as He sees fit, He has mercy on whomever He wants, so, even IF a woman should NEVER be behind the pulpit, if she DOES go there, God can and DOES work with her there, for , are you ready to repeat with me, old herm , 'My thoughts are higher...................ways."

 

[GreenNnice]

Green, Pastor is literally the word Shepherd which refers to a male.

Shepherd = male ? Again, everyone wants to just assume that Scripture doesn't have any female shepherds so that means there aren't any. This is the SAME argument for women pastors too. And, it's an argument that holds as much water as Peter's faith AFTER he stopped believing he was REALLY doing it, REALLY doing it, walking on water . And, sure, glad that the voting was 10-0 or maybe 10-1 because I'm not so sure I want to make the woman pastor up front have to have her husband holding her hand when she gives her powerful, authoritative testimony that you can be certain even though she is NOT going to ask for an altar call, WILL WIN MANY to CHRIST on 'this ' night, with what she says, IN THE SPIRIT, from the Lord to men and women in this church, and, everywhere, I forgot to tell you, she's on TV, too, this is WORLDWIDE WORD BROADCASTING SHE's on, baby What does God want more than anything else, what is His great commission, what is His greatest kind of Love for us? To BRING others to Christ We should be like-minded in doing this, and, if YOUR INDERSTANDING of women pastoring, missionary-speaking , women teaching men in Scunday School is creating a Love disconnect (hate?) then, maybe, those on THAT SIDE of the fence should come over to the 'Love' side