Yahweh and Yeshua: A Comparison and Contrast

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Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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#61
There are two G/gods in the OT. Here we have the people making burnt offerings to the god of Moses.

The trouble is, the translators have gone all the way through the Bible and changed every occurrence of LORD to Yahweh and so now we assume it is the true God people were following when they committed evil, when in reality the true God is grieving over them.
Did you just make this up? You clearly have no clue what you are talking about...

Every time you see LORD in caps, it is YHWH, every time you see Lord it is adonai, elohim, etc. The pharisee forbid speaking His name (YHWH) and added vowel points to the text and said it was now adonai or elohim, when they read it they say "ha shem" (the Name).

Yeremyah 23:26-27, "How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Yes, they are prophets of the deceit of their own minds; Who devise; plan and scheme, to cause My people to forget My Name through their dreams, which they tell every man to his neighbor, just as their fathers have forgotten My Name for Baal (Lord)."


BAAL (DEITY) [Hebrew - baal] . Canaanite storm and fertility god. The name, which means “lord, ” is an epithet of the god Hadad (lit. “thunderer” ). Well-known from the OT, he is now extremely well-attested in the Ugaritic texts, in addition to being mentioned in other ancient texts. (Freedman, David Noel: The Anchor Bible Dictionary. New York : Doubleday, 1996, c1992, S. 1:546)


American Standard Version - Preface
"The change first proposed in the Appendix --- that which substitutes "Jehovah" for "LORD" and "GOD" (printed in small capitals) --- is one which will be unwelcome by many, because of the frequency and familiarity of the terms displaced. But the American Revisers, after a careful consideration, were brought to the unanimous conviction that a Jewish superstition, which regarded the Divine Name as too sacred to be uttered, ought no longer to dominate in the English or any other version of the Old Testament, as it fortunately does not in the numerous versions made by modern missionaries.

English Standard Version - Preface
"In the translation of biblical terms referring to God, the ESV takes great care to convey the specific nuances of meaning of the original Hebrew and Greek terms. First, concerning terms that refer to God in the Old Testament: God, the Maker of heaven and earth, introduced himself to the people of Israel with the special, personal name, whose consonants are YHWH (see Exodus 3:14-15). Scholars call this the “Tetragrammaton,” a Greek term referring to the four Hebrew letters YHWH. The exact pronunciation of YHWH is uncertain, because the Jewish people considered the personal name of God to be so holy that it should never be spoken aloud. Instead of reading the word YHWH, they would normally read the Hebrew word adonai (“Lord”), and the ancient translations into Greek, Syriac, and Aramaic also followed suit. When the vowels of the word adonai are placed with the consonants of YHWH, this results in the familiar word Jehovah that was used in some earlier English Bible translations. As is common among English translations today, the ESV usually renders the personal name of God (YHWH) with the word Lord (printed in small capitals). An exception to this is when the Hebrew word adonai appears together with YHWH, in which case the two words are rendered together as “the Lord [in lower case] God [in small capitals].” In contrast to the personal name for God (YHWH), the more general name for God in Old Testament Hebrew is ‘elohim and its related forms of ‘el or ‘eloah, all of which are normally translated “God” (in lower case letters). The use of these different ways to translate the Hebrew words for God is especially beneficial to the English reader, enabling the reader to see and understand the different ways that the personal name and the general name for God are both used to refer to the One True God of the Old Testament."


The English Revised Version - Preface
"It has been thought advisable in regard to the word "JEHOVAH" to follow the usage of the Authorised Version, and not to insert it uniformly in place of "LORD" or "GOD," which when printed in small capitals represent the words substituted by Jewish custom for the ineffable Name according to the vowel points by which it is distinguished. It will be found, therefore, that in this respect the Authorised Version has been departed from only in a few passages, in which the introduction of a proper name seemed to be required."


GOD'S WORD Translation - Preface
"GOD'S WORD capitalizes the first letter in proper nouns and sentences and all the letters in the word LORD when it represents Yahweh, the name of God in the Old Testament."


Good News Translation Bible - Preface
"Following an ancient tradition, begun by the first translation of the Hebrew Scriptures (the Septuagint) and followed by the vast majority of English translations, the distinctive Hebrew name for God (usually transliterated Jehovah or Yahweh), is in this translation represented by “LORD.” When Adonai, normally translated “Lord,” is followed by Yahweh, the combination is rendered by the phrase “Sovereign LORD.”

Holman Christian Standard Bible - Preface
"The Tetragrammaton occurs 6,828 times in the Hebrew Bible. Nearly all English versions follow the ancient tradition of rendering the Divine name as “the Lord.” The King James Version makes only four exceptions (Exodus 6:3, Psalm 83:18, Isaiah 12:2, and Isaiah 26:4), where it renders the name as “Jehovah.” The first edition of the HCSB used “Yahweh” seventy-five times, and the 2009 revision increased the number to 476, although the ordinary rendering continues to be “the Lord.” One of the editors of the version has explained why the version uses “Yahweh” in the places where it does: We use it as the rendering of YHWH (which the Hebrew Bible editors first rendered as Adonai, “Lord”) whenever God’s “name” is being given (either explicitly, using the word “name,” or implicitly), when He is being identified (“I am Yahweh”), when He is being contrasted to other gods such as Baal, in certain repeated phrases such as “Yahweh the God of your fathers,” or when YHWH has been rendered by Yahweh in the immediate context. … our objective is to introduce to the contemporary church what is the most likely pronunciation of the divine name YHWH in the Hebrew Bible. We did not render the majority of occurrences of YHWH as Yahweh because our goal is not only to be accurate but to use an English style that is most familiar to people. Since most Christians today probably do not commonly speak of “Yahweh,” but rather of “the Lord,” we felt it would be insensitive to use Yahweh for YHWH in every case and would make the Bible seem too uncomfortable for most people."


New American Bible - Preface
"A superficial difference between two of these sources is responsible for their names: the Yahwist prefers the name Yahweh (represented in translation as Lord) by which God revealed himself to Israel; the Elohist prefers the generic name for God, Elohim. The Yahwist is concrete, imaginative, using many anthropomorphisms in its theological approach, as seen, e.g., in the narrative of creation in Genesis 2, compared with the Priestly version in Genesis 1. The Elohist is more sober, moralistic. The Priestly strand, which emphasizes genealogies, is more severely theological in tone. The Deuteronomic approach is characterized by the intense hortatory style of Deuteronomy 5-11, and by certain principles from which it works, such as the centralization of worship in the Jerusalem temple."

Unger's Bible dictionary
YAHWEH (yaʹway). The Heb. tetragrammaton (YHWH) traditionally pronounced Jehovah (see discussion in the articles Lord; [The] Lord) is now known to be correctly vocalized yahwê.

The Eerdmans Bible dictionary
YAHWEH [yäˊwə, yäˊwā].  The covenant name of the God of Israel. According to the biblical account, it is the name by which God identified himself to Moses in the encounter at the burning bush (Exod. 3:14)

The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia
The Covenant Name: Yahweh Yahweh is the only truly personal name of God in Israel’s faith; the others are titular or descriptive expressions. References to “the name” or “in the name” of God indicate this name. The name consists of four consonants, YHWH (known as the tetragrammaton).

Standard Lesson Commentary : Concise Bible Dictionary
Yahweh (Hebrew). Yah-weh. The personal name for God, often cited as YHWH; it appears more than 6500 times in the Old Testament, the first in Genesis 4:26. In most Bibles this is the Old Testament word behind the translation “Lord” (note the capital letters). Jewish people of ancient times substituted the word Lord (adonai) for Yahweh because they considered the name too sacred to say aloud

I could post much more but this should be sufficent.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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#62
1 Corinthians 1:28-31, “And יהוה has chosen the low-born of the world and the despised, and the ones that are not, that He might bring to naught the ones that are, so that no flesh should boast in His presence. And of Him you are in Messiah יהושע, who became for us wisdom from יהוה, righteousness also, and set-apartness and redemption, that, as it has been written, “He who boasts, let him boast in יהוה.” (Jer 9:23-24)

Jeremiah 9:23-26, “Thus said יהוה, “Let not the wise boast in his wisdom, let not the mighty boast in his might, nor let the rich boast in his riches, but let him who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am יהוה, doing loving-commitment, judgment, and righteousness in the earth. For in these I delight,” declares יהוה, “See, the days are coming,” declares יהוה, “when I shall punish all circumcised with the uncircumcised; Mitsrayim, and Yehuḏah, and Eḏom, and the children of Ammon, and Mo’aḇ, and all those trimmed on the edges, who dwell in the wilderness. For all the nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Yisra’ĕl are uncircumcised in heart!”

Standard Lesson Commentary : Concise Bible Dictionary
Yahweh (Hebrew). Yah-weh. The personal name for God, often cited as YHWH; it appears more than 6500 times in the Old Testament, the first in Genesis 4:26. In most Bibles this is the Old Testament word behind the translation “Lord” (note the capital letters). Jewish people of ancient times substituted the word Lord (adonai) for Yahweh because they considered the name too sacred to say aloud.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Exodus 34:5-7, "Then YHWH descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the Name of YHWH. YHWH passed in front of him, and proclaimed: YHWH, YHWH Almighty, merciful and compassionate, longsuffering, and abounding in righteousness and truth. Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity, and transgression, and sin; but by no means leaving unpunished those who are guilty; Who visits the sin of the fathers upon the children and the children's children, to the third and fourth generation."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 116:13, "We will take the cup of salvation, and we will call upon Your Name, O YHWH."[/FONT]


 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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#63
Isaiah 40:28, "Did you not know? Have you not heard? The everlasting Strength, יהוה, the Creator of the ends of the earth, neither faints nor is weary. His understanding is unsearchable."

Isaiah 60:16, "“And you shall suck the milk of the nations, and shall suckle the breast of sovereigns. And you shall know that I, יהוה, your Savior and your Redeemer, am the Mighty One of Ya‛aqoḇ."

Psalm 68:19, "Blessed be יהוה, Day by day He bears our burden, The Strength of our salvation! Selah."

Acts 2:21, “And it shall be that everyone who calls on the Name of יהוה shall be saved.”

Acts 2:21 is a quote from Joel;

Joel 2:32, And it shall be that everyone who calls on the Name of יהוה shall be delivered. For on Mount Tsiyon and in Yerushalayim there shall be an escape as יהוה has said, and among the survivors whom יהוה calls.”


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isaiah 45:21-22, “Declare and bring near, let them even take counsel together. Who has announced this from of old? Who has declared it from that time? Is it not I, [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]? And there is no mighty one besides Me, a righteous Power and Savior, there is none besides Me. Turn to Me and be saved, all you ends of the earth! For I am Strength, and there is none else.”[/FONT]
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
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#64
Did you just make this up? You clearly have no clue what you are talking about...

Every time you see LORD in caps, it is YHWH, every time you see Lord it is adonai, elohim, etc. The pharisee forbid speaking His name (YHWH) and added vowel points to the text and said it was now adonai or elohim, when they read it they say "ha shem" (the Name).
Baal is also called LORD. So Baal becomes God in modern translations. The 1611 King James Bible has Jehovah only four times. I am sorry to say the people worshipped many false gods. We live in difficult times, the deceiver is very active.

Gen_22:14 And Abraham called the name of that place Iehouah-ijreh, as it is said to this day, In the Mount of the LORD it shalbe seene.

Exo_17:15 And Moses built an Altar, and called the name of it IEHOUAH Nissi.

Jdg_6:24 Then Gideon built an Altar there vnto the Lord, and called it Iehouah shalom: vnto this day it is yet in Ophrah, of the Abi-Ezrites.

Isa_26:4 Trust ye in the Lord for euer: for in the Lord Iehouah is euerlasting strength.


 
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Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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#65
Baal is also called LORD. So Baal becomes God in modern translations. The 1611 King James Bible has Jehovah only four times. I am sorry to say the people worshipped many false gods. We live in difficult times, the deceiver is very active.

Gen_22:14 And Abraham called the name of that place Iehouah-ijreh, as it is said to this day, In the Mount of the LORD it shalbe seene.

Exo_17:15 And Moses built an Altar, and called the name of it IEHOUAH Nissi.

Jdg_6:24 Then Gideon built an Altar there vnto the Lord, and called it Iehouah shalom: vnto this day it is yet in Ophrah, of the Abi-Ezrites.

Isa_26:4 Trust ye in the Lord for euer: for in the Lord Iehouah is euerlasting strength.


Im not sure Im following you, if so I would reply that translation has zero bearing on who the true Mighty One is, if it is YHWH or another. This is an interesting passage dealing with a similar matter:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Kings 18:1-46, [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"18:1, "And after many days it came to be that the word of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]came to Ěliyahu, in the third year, saying, “Go, present yourself to Aḥaḇ, and I give rain on the earth.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"18:2, "Thereupon Ěliyahu went to present himself to Aḥaḇ. And the scarcity of food in Shomeron was severe.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]18:3, "And Aḥaḇ had called Oḇaḏyahu, who was over his house. Now Oḇaḏyahu feared [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]exceedingly."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]18:4, "And it came to be, while Izeḇel cut down the prophets of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], that Oḇaḏyahu had taken one hundred prophets and hidden them, fifty to a cave, and had fed them with bread and water."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]18:5, "And Aḥaḇ had said to Oḇaḏyahu, “Go into the land to all the springs of water and to all the wadis, it could be that we find grass to keep the horses and mules alive, and not have any livestock cut off."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]18:6, "And they divided the land between them to pass over it, Aḥaḇ went one way by himself, and Oḇaḏyahu went another way by himself."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]18:7, "And as Oḇaḏyahu was on his way, then see, Ěliyahu met him. And he recognised him, and fell on his face, and said, “Is that you, my master Ěliyahu?”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"18:8, "And he answered him, “It is I. Go, say to your master, ‘Ěliyahu is here.’ ”"18:9, "And he said, “What have I sinned, that you are giving your servant into the hand of Aḥaḇ, to kill me?"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]18:10, "“As [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Strength lives, there is no nation or reign where my master has not sent to look for you. And when they said, ‘He is not here,’ he made the reign or nation swear that they could not find you."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]18:11, "“And now you say, ‘Go, say to your master, “Ěliyahu is here” ’!"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]18:12, "“And it shall be, as soon as I am gone from you, that the Spirit of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]takes you away to a place I do not know. And I shall come to report to Aḥaḇ, and when he does not find you, he shall kill me. But I your servant have feared [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]from my youth."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]18:13, "“Was it not reported to my master what I did when Izeḇel killed the prophets of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], how I hid one hundred men of the prophets of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], fifty to a cave, and fed them with bread and water?"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]18:14, "“And now you say, ‘Go, say to your master, “Ěliyahu is here!” ’ Then he shall kill me.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"18:15, "And Ěliyahu said, “As [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]of hosts lives, before whom I stand, I shall indeed show myself to him today.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"18:16, "Oḇaḏyahu then went to meet Aḥaḇ and informed him, and Aḥaḇ went to meet Ěliyahu."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]18:17, "And it came to be, when Aḥaḇ saw Ěliyahu, that Aḥaḇ said to him, “Is that you, O disturber of Yisra’yl?”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"18:18, "And he answered, “I have not disturbed Yisra’yl, but you and your father’s house, in that you have forsaken the commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], and you have followed the Ba‛als."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]18:19, "“And now, send and gather all Yisra’yl to me on Mount Karmel, the four hundred and fifty prophets of Ba‛al, and the four hundred prophets of Ashĕrah, who eat at Izeḇel’s table.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"18:20, "Aḥaḇ then sent for all the children of Yisra’yl, and gathered the prophets on Mount Karmel."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]18:21, "And Ěliyahu came to all the people, and said, “How long would you keep hopping between two opinions? If [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]is the Mighty One, follow Him; and if Ba‛al, follow him.” But the people answered him not a word."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]18:22, "And Ěliyahu said to the people, “I alone am left a prophet of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], but the prophets of Ba‛al are four hundred and fifty men."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]18:23, "“Now let them give us two bulls. And let them choose one bull for themselves, and cut it in pieces, and lay it on the wood, but set no fire. And I, I prepare the other bull, and shall lay it on the wood, but set no fire."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]18:24, "“And you shall call on the name of your mighty one, and I, I call on the Name of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And the Mighty One who answers by fire, He is the Mighty One.” So all the people answered and said, “The word is good.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"18:25, "And Ěliyahu said to the prophets of Ba‛al, “Choose one bull for yourselves and prepare it first, for you are many. And call on the name of your mighty one, but set no fire.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"18:26, "So they took the bull which was given them, and prepared it, and called on the name of Ba‛al from morning even until noon, saying, “O Ba‛al, answer us!” But there was no voice and no one answered. And they leaped about the altar which they had made."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]18:27, "And it came to be at noon, that Ěliyahu taunted them and said, “Cry aloud, for he is a mighty one; he is meditating, or he is busy, or he is on a journey, or it could be that he is asleep and has to be awakened!”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"18:28, "And they cried aloud, and cut themselves, according to their ruling, with knives and spears, until the blood gushed out on them."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]18:29, "And it came to be when midday was past, that they prophesied until the time of bringing the evening offering. But there was no voice and no one answered, and no one paying attention."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]18:30, "Then Ěliyahu said to all the people, “Come closer to me.” And all the people came closer to him. And he repaired the altar of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]that was broken down."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]18:31, "And Ěliyahu took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Ya‛aqoḇ, to whom the word of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]had come, saying, “Yisra’yl is your name.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"18:32, "And with the stones he built a altar in the Name of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And he made a trench around the altar large enough to hold two seahs of seed."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]18:33, "And he arranged the wood, and cut the bull in pieces, and laid it on the wood, and said, “Fill four jars with water, and pour it on the ascending offering and on the wood.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"18:34, "Then he said, “Do it a second time,” and they did it a second time. And he said, “Do it a third time,” and they did it a third time."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]18:35, "And the water flowed around the altar, and he filled the trench with water too."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]18:36, "And it came to be, at the time of bringing the evening offering, that Ěliyahu the prophet came near and said, “[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]the Mighty One of Aḇraham, Yitsḥaq, and Yisra’yl, let it be known today: You are the Mighty One in Yisra’yl, and I Your servant, have done all these matters by Your word."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]18:37, "“Answer me, O [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], answer me, and let this people know that You are [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]the Mighty One, and You shall turn their hearts back to You again.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"18:38, "Then the fire of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]fell and consumed the ascending offering, and the wood and the stones and the dust, and it licked up the water that was in the trench."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]18:39, "And all the people saw, and fell on their faces, and said, “[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], He is the Mighty One! [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], He is the Mighty One!”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"18:40, "And Ěliyahu said to them, “Seize the prophets of Ba‛al! Do not let one of them escape!” So they seized them, and Ěliyahu brought them down to the wadi Qishon and slew them there."18:41, "And Ěliyahu said to Aḥaḇ, “Go up, eat and drink, because of the sound of the noise of rain.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"18:42, "And Aḥaḇ went up to eat and to drink. And Ěliyahu went up to the top of Karmel, and he bowed down on the ground, and put his face between his knees,"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]18:43, "and said to his servant, “Go up, please, look closely toward the sea.” So he went up and looked closely, and said, “Not a speck.” And seven times he said, “Go again.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"18:44, "And it came to be the seventh time, that he said, “See, a little cloud as small as a man’s hand is coming out of the sea!” And he said, “Go up, say to Aḥaḇ, ‘Hitch up, and go down before the rain stops you.’ ”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"18:45, "And in the meantime, it came to be that the heavens became black with clouds and wind, and there was a heavy rain, while Aḥaḇ rode and went to Yizre‛ĕl."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]18:46, "And the hand of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]was on Ěliyahu. And he girded up his loins and ran ahead of Aḥaḇ to the entrance of Yizre‛ĕl."[/FONT]
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#66
Baal is a Canaanite-Phoenician word that means “master” or “lord”. (Harper’s Bible Dictionary, Miller) There were many baalim (plural of baal) or lords with different names in the Scriptures. Baal worship was worship in high places where people brought taxes to the pagan deities. Baal-gad is pronounced “Ba’al Gawd” which means the lord of fortune and should be recognized as similar to “lord god”. (Josh. 11:17) Baal-hamon means the lord of riches. (Song of Solomon 8:11) Other references can be found in II Samuel 13:23, I Chronicles 5:23, Joshua 15:9, II Samuel 5:20, II Kings 4:42-44, Judges 20:33, and Numbers 33:7. One of the most mentioned baalim is baal-peor which means lord of opening which was probably Chemosh, a Moabite deity. (Number 25:3, 5; Deuteronomy 4:3; Psalm 106:28; Hosea 9:10)


The reason that I refrain from using “lord” when referencing the Creator is because it is used in place of the heavenly Father’s name Yahweh in many translations of the scriptures. Additionally, the spoken word “lord” does not sound different when referring to the uppercase lord and the lowercase lord. The use of lord in place of Yahweh doesn't allow for any distinction of who is being worshipped. Baal and lord refer to a number of different deities in Scripture and throughout history. It is troubling that baal is pronounced the same in all languages while Yahweh was replaced with lord. Lord and baal are interchangeable in meaning. Yahweh is not replaceable! There are a few prophecies that refer to the replacement that has happened. Let’s look at Jeremiah 23:

How long shall there be lies in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies, and who prophesy the deceit of their own heart, who think to make my people forget my name by their dreams that they tell one another, even as their fathers forgot my name for Baal? (Jer 23:26-27 ESV

https://paleotimes.org/is-there-any-evidence-that-baal-and-lord-are-equivalent-2/

They were so far from Yahweh, they even sawed Isaiah in half. The true Father God as represented by Jesus would never command the atrocities we read about in the Bible, and God would certainly not condemn us to eternal damnation by ordering us to kill others. Yahweh said vengeance in mine. (Not ours to take.)

When you read LORD, don't read Yahovah, read Baal or better still Satan, for he is the god of this world.

Poor Elijah was the only true prophet there. He was outnumbered 450 to 1. The rest of God's prophets were in hiding and we see a similar ratio of believers to none believers in the world today.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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#67
Baal is a Canaanite-Phoenician word that means “master” or “lord”. (Harper’s Bible Dictionary, Miller) There were many baalim (plural of baal) or lords with different names in the Scriptures. Baal worship was worship in high places where people brought taxes to the pagan deities. Baal-gad is pronounced “Ba’al Gawd” which means the lord of fortune and should be recognized as similar to “lord god”. (Josh. 11:17) Baal-hamon means the lord of riches. (Song of Solomon 8:11) Other references can be found in II Samuel 13:23, I Chronicles 5:23, Joshua 15:9, II Samuel 5:20, II Kings 4:42-44, Judges 20:33, and Numbers 33:7. One of the most mentioned baalim is baal-peor which means lord of opening which was probably Chemosh, a Moabite deity. (Number 25:3, 5; Deuteronomy 4:3; Psalm 106:28; Hosea 9:10)
Deep word study, to a level most will never look or accept. There is an interesting passge in which the religioui men speak in a name that is not Yah and the man seeking an answer from Yah makes a distinction that they are not speaking of YHWH;

Kings 22:5-7, "Then Yahshaphat said to the king of Israyl; But inquire this day for the counsel and advice of YHWH (#H3068 - YHWH). So the king of Israyl assembled together the prophets--about four hundred men, and asked them; Shall I go to war against Ramoth Gilead, or shall I refrain? They all answered him: Go up! The Lord (#H136 - Adonay), will deliver it into the hands of the king! But Yahshaphat asked; Is there no longer a prophet of YHWH (#H3068 - YHWH) here, so we may inquire of Him?"

We can see they replied "The Lord (#H136 - Adonay), will deliver" and Yahshaphat/Johshaphat did not say ok, but rather "Is there no longer a prophet of YHWH (#H3068 - YHWH) here, so we may inquire of Him"

To me a very interesting passage, and it makes me think that if they had been speaking of YHWH they would have used YHWH. Now I am making no judgment on anyonw, simply considering what is Biblically recorded.



The reason that I refrain from using “lord” when referencing the Creator is because it is used in place of the heavenly Father’s name Yahweh in many translations of the scriptures. Additionally, the spoken word “lord” does not sound different when referring to the uppercase lord and the lowercase lord. The use of lord in place of Yahweh doesn't allow for any distinction of who is being worshipped. Baal and lord refer to a number of different deities in Scripture and throughout history. It is troubling that baal is pronounced the same in all languages while Yahweh was replaced with lord. Lord and baal are interchangeable in meaning. Yahweh is not replaceable! There are a few prophecies that refer to the replacement that has happened. Let’s look at Jeremiah 23:

How long shall there be lies in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies, and who prophesy the deceit of their own heart, who think to make my people forget my name by their dreams that they tell one another, even as their fathers forgot my name for Baal? (Jer 23:26-27 ESV

https://paleotimes.org/is-there-any-evidence-that-baal-and-lord-are-equivalent-2/

They were so far from Yahweh, they even sawed Isaiah in half. The true Father God as represented by Jesus would never command the atrocities we read about in the Bible, and God would certainly not condemn us to eternal damnation by ordering us to kill others. Yahweh said vengeance in mine. (Not ours to take.)

When you read LORD, don't read Yahovah, read Baal or better still Satan, for he is the god of this world.
I can say I do agree in some ways here, I don't believe the name of YHWH to be a removable thing, as He makes it clear in Scripture His name is important, and from a common sense view also. I agree lord and Lord or God and god are the exact some words and pronounced the exact same way, thus when called upon there is no verbal distinction. However I do think the Almighty YHWH is able to discern His children calling upon Him and calling upon another, and the Spirit of YHWH is able to translate;

Rom 8:26 And in the same way the Spirit does help in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray, but the Spirit Himself pleads our case for us with groanings unutterable."

and in the Kingdom will cleanse out any worng or impure language/speaking;


Zephanyah 3:9, "Yes, at that time I will return to the peoples a pure language, so that all of them may call on the Name of YHWH, and serve Him with one accord."

now this in no way makes it justifiable to go against the truth and what one understands to be truth. Also in similar fashion oes not mean the YHWH cares less if we know His name or not;


Yeremyah 16:19-21, "O YHWH, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles will come to You from the ends of the earth, and will say: Surely our fathers have inherited nothing but lies and vanity of no use at all! Do men make gods for themselves? Yes, but they are powerless! Therefore behold, I will make them to know--this time I will teach them My power and might; and they will know that My Name is YHWH!"

I am condemming nobody but we know it is true to say lies come from the adversary and we do not want to follow lies, nobody knows ALL 100% OF THE TRUTH, YET WE WANT TO FIND, UNDERSTAND AND WALK IN AS MUCH TRUTH AS YAH WILLS. To me this is undebatable.



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 12:13, "took the branches of palm trees and went out to meet Him, and were crying out, “Hoshia-na! Blessed is He who is coming in the Name of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], the Sovereign of Yisra’ĕl!”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ezekiyl 36:23, "And I will sanctify My great Name, which was profaned among the heathen, which you have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen will know that I am YHWH, says Father YHWH: when I will be sanctified in you before their eyes."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Malakyah 1:11, "For from the rising of the sun, to the going down of the [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]same, My Name will be great among the Gentiles. In every place incense will be offered to My Name, with a pure offering; for My Name will be great among the Gentiles, says YHWH of hosts."[/FONT]

Poor Elijah was the only true prophet there. He was outnumbered 450 to 1. The rest of God's prophets were in hiding and we see a similar ratio of believers to none believers in the world today.

It is a very powerful and though provoking passage, I share similar thoughts. May Yah strengthen and guide us continually.


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 29:1-2, "Ascribe to YHWH, O you mighty, ascribe to YHWH glory and strength. Ascribe to YHWH the glory due His Name! Worship Him in the beauty of holiness."[/FONT]
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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#68
1 Corinthians 1:28-31, “And יהוה has chosen the low-born of the world and the despised, and the ones that are not, that He might bring to naught the ones that are, so that no flesh should boast in His presence. And of Him you are in Messiah יהושע, who became for us wisdom from יהוה, righteousness also, and set-apartness and redemption, that, as it has been written, “He who boasts, let him boast in יהוה.” (Jer 9:23-24)



Jeremiah 9:23-26, “Thus said יהוה, “Let not the wise boast in his wisdom, let not the mighty boast in his might, nor let the rich boast in his riches, but let him who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am יהוה, doing loving-commitment, judgment, and righteousness in the earth. For in these I delight,” declares יהוה, “See, the days are coming,” declares יהוה, “when I shall punish all circumcised with the uncircumcised; Mitsrayim, and Yehuḏah, and Eḏom, and the children of Ammon, and Mo’aḇ, and all those trimmed on the edges, who dwell in the wilderness. For all the nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Yisra’ĕl are uncircumcised in heart!”
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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#69
1 Corinthians 1:28-31, “And יהוה has chosen the low-born of the world and the despised, and the ones that are not, that He might bring to naught the ones that are, so that no flesh should boast in His presence. And of Him you are in Messiah יהושע, who became for us wisdom from יהוה, righteousness also, and set-apartness and redemption, that, as it has been written, “He who boasts, let him boast in יהוה.” (Jer 9:23-24)



Jeremiah 9:23-26, “Thus said יהוה, “Let not the wise boast in his wisdom, let not the mighty boast in his might, nor let the rich boast in his riches, but let him who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am יהוה, doing loving-commitment, judgment, and righteousness in the earth. For in these I delight,” declares יהוה, “See, the days are coming,” declares יהוה, “when I shall punish all circumcised with the uncircumcised; Mitsrayim, and Yehuḏah, and Eḏom, and the children of Ammon, and Mo’aḇ, and all those trimmed on the edges, who dwell in the wilderness. For all the nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Yisra’ĕl are uncircumcised in heart!”
Jeremiah, along with all the later prophets knew and taught of the true One Almighty God. The same cannot be said of earlier times when the people believed in local gods, with YAHWEH being the national god of the Jews only.
 

JairCrawford

Senior Member
Oct 31, 2017
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#70
I'm not sure what happened to the post I made in here last night. I might have deleted it by accident when trying to edit?

I'll have to post it again later.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#71
I'm not sure what happened to the post I made in here last night. I might have deleted it by accident when trying to edit?

I'll have to post it again later.
Many posts were lost due to site/server maintenance.
 

Hizikyah

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Aug 25, 2013
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#72
Jeremiah, along with all the later prophets knew and taught of the true One Almighty God. The same cannot be said of earlier times when the people believed in local gods, with YAHWEH being the national god of the Jews only.
What in the Scripture makes you think YHWH is a "national" God of the Jews?
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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#73
What in the Scripture makes you think YHWH is a "national" God of the Jews?
The name 'Yahweh' gives it away. The name was to distinguish their national god from other gods. The One true God does not need a name, he is simply God.

The Old Testament is all about Eretz Yisrael, which for them is the whole earth, when in fact it is only a small part of the world. When they say in Exodus 10:5 a plague of Locusts "covered the face of the whole earth." Quite clearly the locusts did not cover the whole globe, they only covered the land of Egypt and then probably not all of it.

In Numbers 22:5,11 we read that after the Israelites were delivered from Egypt and settled in Canaan they "Covered the face of the earth." This is simply their way of saying they occupied the land in which they were dwelling.

When Cain went to the Land of Nod the Bible says "Behold thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth." (Gen 4:14) The earth for him was the place where he lived.

When the devil tempted Jesus he took him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. The kingdoms of the world were what they could see i.e. local. (Matthew 4:8)

The same idiom is used to describe the Israelite conquest of Canaan,
Deut 2:25 This day I will begin to put the dread and fear of you on the peoples who are under the whole heaven, who shall hear the report of you and shall tremble and be in anguish because of you.

Incas and Inuit weren't trembling in anguish, it was the people in the region, Canaanites Moabites and Edomites.

When the Bible talks about the whole land or the face of the earth, it means the land or the earth of Israel and not the whole globe. Noah did not go collecting animals from all seven continents, they would have been local to him. They are a nationalistic people.

---------------------------------

THEY are God's chosen people. (God does not have favourites.)
Their God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. (What about other nations?)
About their God they write, "Who is like unto thee, O LORD, among the gods? (Exo 15:11 KJV) Yahweh is one god of many gods.

They are an insular people:
When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou; And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them: Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son. For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly. But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire. For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
(Deu 7:1-6 KJV)


Their god is the devil. They are not of God:
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
(Joh 8:44-47 KJV)
 
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Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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#74
I'm not sure what happened to the post I made in here last night. I might have deleted it by accident when trying to edit?

I'll have to post it again later.

I think YHWH wanted me to answer your questions in that missing post, in multiple parts so here goes;


I apologize that I haven't been able to be as active the past few days in the discussion. It's been a busy week. Ok so I'd like to bring up some contrasting points;

Isaiah 45:21-22, “Declare and bring near, let them even take counsel together. Who has announced this from of old? Who has declared it from that time? Is it not I, יהוה? And there is no mighty one besides Me, a righteous Power and Savior, there is none besides Me. Turn to Me and be saved, all you ends of the earth! For I am Strength, and there is none else.”[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT]
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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#75
YHWH in the OT: He commands stoning to death for the punishment of breaking several Levitical laws.
In the days of Moses there was a judge system. Righteous men were appointed to judge right ruling according to the Laws of YHWH. The children of Israyl eventually told Samuyl they did not want this system, but rather wanted a king. By the words of YHWH Himself He said they were rejecting Him. Now how could this be? Because YHWH had desired this system to keep the nation pure, and by rejecting His ways they were rejecting Him, and thus the king they desired would treat them very badly;

The people had been given a system of "judges" who judged all matter of the people according to the Law of YHWH. After time they did not want that, this is about the system, what happened as result of their rejection and a very impoortant NT verse about the matter ( in green at the bottom):

Exodus 18:13-26, "18:13, "And it came to be, on the next day, that Mosheh sat to rightly rule the people. And the people stood before Mosheh from morning until evening."18:14, "And when the father-in-law of Mosheh saw all that he did for the people, he said, “What is this that you are doing for the people? Why do you sit by yourself, and all the people stand before you from morning until evening?”"18:15, "And Mosheh said to his father-in-law, “Because the people come to me to seek Elohim."18:16, "“When they have a matter, they come to me, and I rightly rule between one and another, and make known the laws of Elohim and His Torot.”a Footnote: aTorot - plural of Torah, teaching."18:17, "And the father-in-law of Mosheh said to him, “What you are doing is not good."18:18, "“Both you and these people with you shall certainly wear yourselves out. For the matter is too heavy for you. You are not able to do it by yourself."18:19, "“Now listen to my voice. Let me counsel you and Elohim be with you: Stand before Elohim for the people, and you shall bring the matters to Elohim."18:20, "“And you shall enlighten them concerning the laws and the Torot, and show them the way in which they should walk and the work which they do."18:21, "“But you yourself, seek out from all the people able men, who fear Elohim, men of truth, hating unfair gain. And place these over them to be rulers of thousands, rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens."18:22, "“And they shall rightly rule the people at all times. And it shall be that they bring every great matter to you, but they themselves rightly rule every small matter. So, make it lighter for yourself, for they shall bear with you."18:23, "“If you do this word, and Elohim shall command you, then you shall be able to stand and all this people also go to their place in peace.”"18:24, "And Mosheh listened to the voice of his father-in-law and did all that he said."18:25, "And Mosheh chose able men out of all Yisra’ĕl, and made them heads over the people: rulers of thousands, rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens."18:26, "And they rightly ruled the people at all times – the hard matters they brought to Mosheh, but they rightly ruled every small matter themselves."

Exodus 18:25-26, "18:25, "And Mosheh chose able men out of all Yisra’ĕl, and made them heads over the people: rulers of thousands, rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens."18:26, "And they rightly ruled the people at all times – the hard matters they brought to Mosheh, but they rightly ruled every small matter themselves."

1 Chronicles 23:2-6, "23:2, "and he gathered all the rulers of Yisra’ĕl, with the priests and the Lĕwites."23:3, "And the Lĕwites were numbered from the age of thirty years and above. And their number, head by head, was thirty-eight thousand males."23:4, "Of these, twenty-four thousand were to oversee the work of the House of יהוה, and six thousand were officers and judges,"23:5, "and four thousand were gatekeepers, and four thousand to give praise to יהוה, “which I made for giving praise.”"23:6, "And Dawiḏ divided them into divisions, of the sons of Lĕwi: of Gĕrshon, Qehath, and Merari."

1 Chronicles 26:29-30, "26:29, "Of the Yitsharites, Kenanyahu and his sons were for the outward duties as officials and judges over Yisra’ĕl."26:30, "Of the Ḥeḇronites, Ḥashaḇyahu and his brothers, one thousand seven hundred able men, had the oversight of Yisra’ĕl beyond the Yardĕn westward, for all the work of יהוה, and in the service of the sovereign."

2 Chronicles 1:1-2, "1:1, "And Shelomoh son of Dawiḏ strengthened himself over his reign, and יהוה his Elohim was with him and made him exceedingly great."1:2, "And Shelomoh spoke to all Yisra’ĕl, to the commanders of the thousands and of the hundreds, to the judges, and to every leader in all Yisra’ĕl, the heads of the fathers’ houses."



2 Chronicles 19:1-7, "19:1, "And Yehoshaphat the sovereign of Yehuḏah returned to his house in peace in Yerushalayim."19:2, "And Yĕhu son of Ḥanani the seer went out to face him, and said to Sovereign Yehoshaphat, “Do you help the wrong and love those who hate יהוה? Therefore the wrath of יהוה is upon you."19:3, "“But good matters are found in you, in that you have removed the Ashĕroth from the land, and have prepared your heart to seek Elohim.”"19:4, "So Yehoshaphat dwelt in Yerushalayim, and he went out again among the people from Be’ĕrsheḇa to the hill country of Ephrayim, and brought them back to יהוה Elohim of their fathers."19:5, "And he appointed judges in the land in all the walled cities of Yehuḏah, city by city,"19:6, "and said to the judges, “Watch what you are doing, for you do not judge for man, but for יהוה who is with you in the matter of right-ruling."19:7, "“And now, let the fear of יהוה be upon you. Guard and do it, for there is no unrighteousness with יהוה our Elohim, nor partiality, nor taking of bribes.”"

Ezra 7:23-28, "7:23, "Whatever is commanded by the Elah of heaven, let it be diligently done for the House of the Elah of heaven. For why should there be wrath against the reign of the sovereign and his sons?"7:24, "We further inform you that there is no authority to impose tax, excise, or toll on any of the priests and Lĕwites, singers, gatekeepers, Nethinim, and servants of this House of Elah."7:25, "And you, Ezra, according to the wisdom of your Elah that is in your hand, appoint magistrates and judges to judge all the people who are beyond the River, all such as know the laws of your Elah. And teach those who do not know them."7:26, "And whoever does not do the law of your Elah and the law of the sovereign, let judgment be promptly executed on him, whether it be death, or banishment, or confiscation of goods, or imprisonment."7:27, "Blessed be יהוה Elohim of our fathers, who has put this in the sovereign’s heart, to embellish the House of יהוה which is in Yerushalayim,"7:28, "and has extended loving-commitment to me before the sovereign and his counsellors, and before all the sovereign’s mighty princes. So I was strengthened, as the hand of יהוה my Elohim was upon me. And I gathered heads from Yisra’ĕl to go up with me."

Isaiah 1:25-31, "1:25, "“And I shall turn My hand against you, and shall refine your dross as with lye, and shall remove all your alloy."1:26, "“And I shall give back your judges as at the first, and your counsellors as at the beginning. After this you shall be called the city of righteousness, a steadfast city.”"1:27, "Tsiyon shall be ransomed with right-ruling, and her returning ones with righteousness."1:28, "And the destruction of transgressors and of sinners is together, and those who forsake יהוה shall be consumed."1:29, "For they shall be ashamed of the terebinth trees which you have desired. And you shall be embarrassed because of the gardens which you have chosen."1:30, "For you shall be as a terebinth whose leaf fades, and as a garden that has no water."1:31, "The strong shall be for tow, and his work for a spark. And both shall burn together, with no one to extinguish."

2 Chronicles 19:1-11, "19:1, "And Yehoshaphat the sovereign of Yehuḏah returned to his house in peace in Yerushalayim."19:2, "And Yĕhu son of Ḥanani the seer went out to face him, and said to Sovereign Yehoshaphat, “Do you help the wrong and love those who hate יהוה? Therefore the wrath of יהוה is upon you."19:3, "“But good matters are found in you, in that you have removed the Ashĕroth from the land, and have prepared your heart to seek Elohim.”"19:4, "So Yehoshaphat dwelt in Yerushalayim, and he went out again among the people from Be’ĕrsheḇa to the hill country of Ephrayim, and brought them back to יהוה Elohim of their fathers."19:5, "And he appointed judges in the land in all the walled cities of Yehuḏah, city by city,"19:6, "and said to the judges, “Watch what you are doing, for you do not judge for man, but for יהוה who is with you in the matter of right-ruling."19:7, "“And now, let the fear of יהוה be upon you. Guard and do it, for there is no unrighteousness with יהוה our Elohim, nor partiality, nor taking of bribes.”"19:8, "And in Yerushalayim Yehoshaphat also appointed some of the Lĕwites and priests, and some of the chief fathers of Yisra’ĕl, for the right-ruling of יהוה and for dispute. Then they returned to Yerushalayim."19:9, "And he commanded them, saying, “Do this in the fear of יהוה, trustworthily and with a perfect heart:"19:10, "“When any dispute comes to you from your brothers who dwell in their cities, between blood and blood, between Torah and command, laws and right-rulings, then you shall warn them, lest they trespass against יהוה and wrath come upon you and your brothers. Do this, and you shall not be guilty."19:11, "“And look, Amaryahu the chief priest is over you in all matters of יהוה. And Zeḇaḏyahu son of Yishma‛ĕl, the ruler of the house of Yehuḏah, for all the matters of the sovereign, and the Lĕwites are officials before you. Be strong and do, and יהוה is with the good.”"

1 Samuyl 8:7-20," YHWH answered Samuyl, and said: Listen to all the words the people speak to you, for they have not rejected you; they have rejected Me, that I should not reign over them. Just as they have done to Me from the day I brought them out of Egypt, to this very day, they are now doing to you--they are forsaking Me in order to serve god(s) So, listen to them. However, solemnly forewarn them and let them know how the king who will reign over them will behave toward them. Samuyl spoke all the words of YHWH to the people who had asked him for a king. Samuyl said; This is how the king you desire to reign over you will behave: He will take your sons and appoint some of them to serve with his chariots--some will drive his chariot horses, and others will run in front of his chariots. He will appoint captains for his army--captains over thousands and captains over hundreds. Your sons will plow his ground, others will bring in his harvest, and others will manufacture weapons of war and equipment for his chariots. He will take your daughters and appoint them to be his perfumers, cooks, and bakers. He will seize your best fields, vineyards, and olive groves, and give them to his officials. He will demand a tenth of your grain and your vintage, and he will give it to his officers and attendants. He will take your menservants, your maidservants, your finest young men, and your donkeys, and will put them to his own use. He will demand a tenth of your sheep, and you, yourselves, will become his servants. You will cry out in that day because of the king you wanted for yourselves, but in that day YHWH will not listen to you. However, the people refused to listen to Samuyl's warning, and answered; No, we want a king to reign over us. We want to be just like all the other nations. We want a king to judge us and lead us in our battles."

Genesis 1:26, “Then Strength (God) said: Le Us make man Our My image, according to My likeness; they will have rulership over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, over the cattle, and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.”

Psalm 8:6-8, "You made man to be the ruler over the works of Your hands; You will put all things under his feet; All sheep and oxen; yes, all the beasts of the field; All the fowls of the air and the fish of the sea, and whatever passes through the rivers in the seas will be under the rule of man. How excellent is Your great Name in all the earth, YHWH, King of the World!"

YHWH allows and nothing happens if He doesn't allow it, and certainty there are times where I believe He uses "leaders" to punish people for evil their ways, but I do not think He always PLACES these men in power, but allows it.

Hosea 8:4, "They made kings, but not through me. They set up princes, but I knew it not. With their silver and gold they made idols for their own destruction."

Acts 4:26, "The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers were gathered together, against Yah and against his Anointed."

Daniel 7:14 “Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion” 27, "Then the kingdom and dominion ,And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven, Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High. His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, And all dominions shall serve and obey Him."

Also this is a NT verses dealing with the punishment in the times of Mosheh compared to the punishment in the time since Yahshua came;

Hebrews 10:26-31, “For if we sin purposely after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice offering for sins, but some fearsome anticipation of judgment, and a fierce fire which is about to consume the opponents. Anyone who has disregarded the Torah of Mosheh dies without compassion on the witness of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment do you think shall he deserve who has trampled the Son of Yah underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was set apart as common, and insulted the Spirit of mercy? For we know Him who has said, “Vengeance is Mine, I shall repay, says יהוה.” And again, “יהוה shall judge His people. It is fearsome to fall into the hands of the living Father.”

YHWH has not changed. Think about it, why did Yahshua have to die? Because certain sins deserve death. Yahshua took the place of the guilty party (us) to atone for their sins. Think about it do certain sins deserve death? I say yes and this is a totally correct standard IMO, not to get into specifics but if people were freely allowed to commit great and atrocious acts with no repercussions the world would continually get worse and worse. Yet we are t\not the judge, the judge system has been disbanded, the judge will return, and His return and judgments is recorded in the book of Revelation. It will not be petty or comforting to those who are on the wrong side of the wrath, and to not see this as a part of the true Mighty One (true God) is to deney who He is and rather create a God of ones imagination.
 

Hizikyah

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Aug 25, 2013
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#76
Yeshua in the NT: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
First the Scriptual account for context and then I want to speak about it;

John 8:1-11, "8:1, "And יהושע went to the Mount of Olives."8:2, "And at dawn He came again into the Set-apart Place, and all the people were coming to Him. And having sat down, He was teaching them."8:3, "And the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And having set her in the midst,"8:4, "they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery."8:5, "“And in the Torah Mosheh commanded us that such should be stoned. What then do You say?”"8:6, "And this they said, trying Him, so that they might accuse Him. But יהושע, bending down, wrote on the ground with the finger, as though He did not hear."8:7, "But as they kept on questioning Him, He straightened up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.”"8:8, "And bending down again, He wrote on the ground."8:9, "And when they heard it, being reproved by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning from the older ones until the last. And יהושע was left alone, and the woman standing in the middle."8:10, "And יהושע, straightening up and seeing no one but the woman, said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Did no one condemn you?”"8:11, "And she said, “No one, Master.” And יהושע said to her, “Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more.”a Footnote: aSee also Joh 5:14, Rom 6:16-20, 1Co 15:34, 1Pe 2:24, 1Pe 4:1-2, 1Jn 3:4-10, 1Jn 5:18."

There are multiple things people fail to realize in this passage and thus completely misunderstand it meaning.

1. People have no understanding of the Law and what it says, thus they accuse the Law rather than the Pharisees for falsifying of their testimony and their false application of their twisted version of YHWH’s Law;

Leviticus 20:10, “And a man who commits adultery with the wife of another man, who commits adultery with the wife of his neighbor: the adulterer and the adulteress shall certainly be put to death.”

Why was only the woman brought and not the man? The verses says “John 8:4, "they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery” How was the woman caught in the act if there was no man also? There had to also be a man that was guilty of the same sin or there could be no sin. Adultery is not a single person sin. So the Pharisees only bringing the woman is literal false testimony and false application of the Law, attempting false judgment. Yahshua was not changing the Law, He was honoring right ruling/proper judgment; one needs 2 or more credible witnesses to make a judgment, if the accusers failed to bring the other guilty party they but that alone destroyed their own credibility.

2. John 8:11, "And she said, “No one, Master.” And יהושע said to her, “Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more”

If sin is transgression of the Law, He did show mercy but He also told her not to transgress anymore. Fits with Hebrews 10:26-31. He did not excuse her in a way that sin was not wrong, He literally gave her a second chance at life… is this not the same thing He has done for us?

3. Why is Yahshua able to open the seals in Revelation and execute judgment? Because He is without sin and sees things clearly as YHWH does, with no bias or any personal interest. We are not capable of that, not even the best human on the earth right now is capable of that 100%
 

Hizikyah

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Aug 25, 2013
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#77
YHWH in the OT: Commanded the slaughter of many nations, including the infants and children.
YHWH in the OT: Led Yisra'el to victory against many of their enemies whom they would typically slaughter.
These nations were Nephillim, raphamin and nations seeking to destroy Israel entirely. They were committed to evil and it is recorded in history (check the Moabite Stone below for an example) they sought to exterminate Israyl. Why? Most likely because satan was leading them and satan wanted to destroy all remembrance of YHWH. Yet YHWH needed Israyl to survive to birth the Messiah and to fulfill His plans.

Numbers 21:29, “Woe to you, Mo’aḇ! You have perished, O people of Kemosh! He has given his sons as fugitives, and his daughters into captivity, to Siḥon the sovereign of the Amorites.”

Kemosh” is word #H3645 כְּמוֹשׁ Kmowsh (kem-oshe') n/t., כְּמִישׁ Kmiysh (kem-eesh') [Jeremiah 48:7], 1. the powerful., 2. Kemosh, the god of the Moabites., [from an unused root meaning to subdue], KJV: Chemosh.

1 Kings 11:4-7, "11:4, "And it came to be, when Shelomoh was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other mighty ones. And his heart was not perfect with יהוה his Strength, as was the heart of his father Dawiḏ. And Shelomoh went after Ashtoreth the mighty one of the Tsiḏonians, and after Milkom the abomination of the Ammonites." Thus Shelomoh did evil in the eyes of יהוה, and did not follow יהוה completely, like his father Dawiḏ. Then Shelomoh built a high place for Kemosh the abomination of Mo’aḇ, on the hill that is east of Yerushalayim, and for Moleḵ the abomination of the children of Ammon.”

1 Kings 11:31-34, "11:31, "and said to Yaroḇ‛am, “Take for yourself ten pieces, for thus said יהוה, the Strength of Yisra’ĕl, ‘See, I am tearing the reign out of the hand of Shelomoh and shall give ten tribes to you, but he shall have one tribe for the sake of My servant Dawiḏ, and for the sake of Yerushalayim, the city which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Yisra’yl. Because they have forsaken Me, and bow themselves to Ashtoreth the mighty one of the Tsiḏonians, to Kemosh the mighty one of the Mo’aḇites, and to Milkom the mighty one of the children of Ammon, and have not walked in My ways – to do what is right in My eyes, and My laws and My right-rulings, as did his father Dawiḏ. But I do not take all the reign out of his hand, because I have made him ruler all the days of his life for the sake of My servant Dawiḏ, whom I chose because he guarded My commands and My laws."

Moabite Stone Text;

“I am Mesha, son of Chemosh-gad,[20] king of Moab, the Dibonite. My father reigned over Moab thirty years, and I have reigned after my father. And I have built this sanctuary for Chemosh in Karchah, a sanctuary of salvation, for he saved me from all aggressors, and made me look upon all mine enemies with contempt. Omri was king of Israel, and oppressed Moab during many days, and Chemosh was angry with his aggressions. His son succeeded him, and he also said, I will oppress Moab. In my days he said, Let us go, and I will see my desire upon him and his house, and Israel said, I shall destroy it for ever. Now Omri took the land of Madeba, and occupied it in his day, and in the days of his son, forty years. And Chemosh had mercy on it in my time. And I built Baal-meon and made therein the ditch, and I built Kiriathaim. And the men of Gad dwelled in the country of Ataroth from ancient times, and the king of Israel fortified Ataroth. I assaulted the wall and captured it, and killed all the warriors of the city for the well-pleasing of Chemosh and Moab, and I removed from it all the spoil, and offered it before Chemosh in Kirjath; and I placed therein the men of Siran, and the men of Mochrath. And Chemosh said to me, Go take Nebo against Israel, and I went in the night and I fought against it from the break of day till noon, and I took it: and I killed in all seven thousand men, but I did not kill the women and maidens, for I devoted them to Ashtar-Chemosh; and I took from it the vessels of Jehovah, and offered them before Chemosh. And the king of Israel fortified Jahaz, and occupied it, when he made war against me, and Chemosh drove him out before me, and I took from Moab two hundred men in all, and placed them in Jahaz, and took it to annex it to Dibon. I built Karchah the wall of the forest, and the wall of the Hill. I have built its gates and I have built its towers. I have built the palace of the king, and I made the prisons for the criminals within the wall. And there were no wells in the interior of the wall in Karchah. And I said to all the people, ‘Make you every man a well in his house.’ And I dug the ditch for Karchah with the chosen men of Israel. I built Aroer, and I made the road across the Arnon. I took Beth-Bamoth for it was destroyed. I built Bezer for it was cut down by the armed men of Daybon, for all Daybon was now loyal; and I reigned from Bikran, which I added to my land. And I built Beth-Gamul, and Beth-Diblathaim, and Beth Baal-Meon, and I placed there the poor people of the land. And as to Horonaim, the men of Edom dwelt therein, on the descent from old. And Chemosh said to me, Go down, make war against Horonaim, and take it. And I assaulted it, And I took it, for Chemosh restored it in my days. Wherefore I made.... ...year...and I....”

The Mesha Stele (also known as the "Moabite Stone") is a stele (inscribed stone) set up around 840 BCE by King Mesha of Moab (a kingdom located in modern Jordan). Mesha tells how Chemosh, the god of Moab, had been angry with his people and had allowed them to be subjugated to Israel, but at length Chemosh returned and assisted Mesha to throw off the yoke of Israel and restore the lands of Moab. Mesha describes his many building projects.[1] It is written in the Phoenician alphabet.

The stone was discovered intact by Frederick Augustus Klein, an Anglican missionary, at the site of ancient Dibon (now Dhiban, Jordan), in August 1868. Klein was led to it by a local Bedouin, although neither of them could read the text.[2] Before it could be seen by another European, the next year it was smashed by local villagers during a dispute over its ownership. A "squeeze" (a papier-mâché impression) had been obtained by a local Arab on behalf of Charles Simon Clermont-Ganneau, and fragments containing most of the inscription (613 letters out of about a thousand) were later recovered and pieced together. The squeeze and the reassembled stele are now in the Louvre Museum.
 

Hizikyah

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Aug 25, 2013
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#78
Yeshua in the NT: "Love your enemies. Pray for those who persecute you."
He did say this and I believe it to be correct, however He did not say to let people kill you. Why would He tell the disciples to buy a sword if He was against self defense?

Luke 22:35-38, “And He said to them, “When I sent you without purse and bag and sandals, did you lack any?” And they said, “None at all. And He said to them, “But now, let him who has a purse take it, likewise also a bag. And let him who has no sword sell his garment and buy one. For I say to you that what has been written has yet to be accomplished in Me, ‘And He was reckoned with lawless ones.’ (Isa 53:12) For that which refers to Me has an end too. And they said, “Master, look, here are two swords.” But He said to them, “That is enough.”

Yet He stopped Peter when he cut off the ear of the “high priest’s servant” Why?

John 18:10-11, "18:10, "Then Shim‛on Kĕpha, having a sword, drew it and struck the high priest’s servant, and cut off his right ear. And the servant’s name was Meleḵ."18:11, "Then יהושע said to Kĕpha, “Put your sword into the sheath. Shall I not drink the cup which My Father has given Me?”

Because He needed to be arrested and tried and Sacrificed to fulfill YHWH’s plan.

Matthew 26:49-54, “And going straight up to יהושע he said, “Greetings, Rabbi!” and kissed Him. And יהושע said to him, “Friend, why have you come?” Then they came and laid hands on יהושע and seized Him. And look, one of those with יהושע put out his hand and drew his sword, and striking the servant of the high priest he cut off his ear. Then יהושע said to him, “Return your sword to its place, for all who take the sword shall die by the sword. Or do you think that I am not able to pray to My Father now, and He shall provide Me with more than twelve legions of messengers? How then would the Scriptures be filled that it has to be this way?”

He says to “let him who has no sword sell his garment and buy one” and also says “all who take the sword shall die by the sword

No. A sword for self defense if perfectly right, as we saw the Israylites defending themselves in reactive and pre-emptive manner in the “OT”. But to live by the sword is to make the sword a way of life, this should not be, as YHWH never commanded the Israylites to fight against nations that were not threatening to it.
 

Hizikyah

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Aug 25, 2013
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#79
Yeshua in the NT: Said even calling someone a fool is commuting murder in their hearts; told His disciples to get swords specifically to tell them to drop them (things work in reverse in the Kingdom), reprimanded Peter for slicing the soldiers ear off and healed the soldiers ear; and He stated very severe consequences for anyone that might hurt children.

Everything needs to be looked at in context. Comparing nations that burned their firstborn in fires to Molech and sought to wipe all Israylites out of existence, in which one of these tribes was going to bring forth the Messiah, and thus needed to survive to fulfill the plans of YHWH is not the same as Peter cutting an ear off when Yahshua knew He needed to be arrested so He could then be Sacrificed, as shown above. Also you said
 

Hizikyah

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Aug 25, 2013
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#80
He stated very severe consequences for anyone that might hurt children.

These nations that Israylites slaughtered sacrificed their children in fires to false gods. How can you seem stand by “severe consequences” in the “NT” but condemn “severe consequences” in the “OT”. I don't think you are judging correctly.



John 7:24, “Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”

Proverbs 19:2, “It is not good to have zeal without knowledge, nor to be hasty and miss the way.”