Your thoughts on An allegory of the covenants

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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
14,639
6,892
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#41
The gospel teaches us what matters to God and our actions is what God cares about and those actions in light of Christ will determine our end . Christ dying in the cross is an atonement only it isn’t the covenant the covenant is christs word spoken before the blood was shed
Now you have deviated from the truth. There is nothing more to add.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
1,544
497
83
#42
It quite self explanatory after your read a dozen times, and sleep on it, and then read it real slow, and then slower, and then in pieces and parts, and then altogether. Lol just thought I would add some levity to this conversation.

Paul is reaching back to a passage that wouldn't usually be considered in such a way. Most including myself read the story as simply a literal historic narrative, which it is, but as with so many of the historic narratives in the lives of the saints of old, they are telling the story of Jesus. They live out this narrative of Christ to come in a prophetic way.
haha yes and if you squint and turn your head sideways the last time it simplifies that’s the secret 🤣

yes I sort of am coming to the same conclusion it’s all Literal but in Gods magnificent design it also works as a teacher for the body of Christ

I think also of the children of Israel’s journeys in the same way it seems there’s always a lesson no
Matter where you look on scripture that applies to the church

“Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭10:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s as if God was always setting up things for when the gospel would be preached so we can look back and know the mystery that used to be hidden
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
1,544
497
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#44
The Father draws men to Jesus.
sure he does through his word those who believe him. He doesn’t force us either way it’s a choice he was attempting to draw these in also but they refused

“I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing:

therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:19‬ ‭

God draws men surely , he speaks his word and whoever will believe will be drawn to him . It’s a choice it has always has been God provided Cain also with the same word that would have drawn him in but Cain rejected it and chose death like Adam he had life and death before him he chose death

it’s true God draws men to him it’s untrue that we don’t have a choice to accept or deny the call . It’s not against our own will we can be saved it’s when we repent and accept the gospel that we can

again it’s a choice no one condemned is going to be able to say “ it wasn’t my fault God just put me here cuz he wanted to “

The gospel is before everyone life or death God has made clear for us to choose life

Inagree God draws us to him , he does that by sending the gospel of his son into the world and says anyone who believes is going to be saved . And anyone who Denys will be damned

this is life and deaths offer for all now not Israel’s law but this

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭

that’s life and death for the world and the choice is noirs because it’s all through the world now

I do believe in Gods foreknowledge that he knows from the beginning who belongs to him and he provides what we need to accomplish those things .

I don’t believe we have no choice in the matter the gospel gives us one
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
1,544
497
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#45
A few years ago, I read the entire Bible in a timeline, chronological order with the express purpose of recording all passages that indicate the Power of the Lord. I also searched for moments of Mind Control over us humans. I also logged all passages where God takes responsibility for events on earth. With hundreds upon hundreds of passages logged and recorded, I came to the easy conclusion that God is in control of all things, including our belief in Him.



God knows who will be saved and who will not be saved, but we mere humans do not have the ability to know who will respond and who will not respond. This is why we much preach the Gospel to each person . . . we are looking for the one person out of, say, 10,000, that has ears to hear and eyes to see the True Gospel of Christ. Apparently, we merely plant Seeds and it is God and the Spirit who makes the Seed grow.



God created the Canaanites, and more specifically, those of the Seven Nations, to be completely destroyed and wiped out. When God killed in the Old Testament, many of those who died were abominations, those who came from the fallen angels / the Nephelim, etc. These creations are a part of God's Plan, which is that He will rescue His Children from the Evil Sinful Nature. The Seven Nations, Babylon, etc, these are reflective of the Sin Nature and how Christ redeems us from Captivity . . . from being taken Captive by the Curse that stems from Adam and Eve.

We must be careful not to view the body in our limited way. Death is the passage by which we must take if we are to partake in Heaven. Death is not a bad thing . . . it is necessary if we are to be known by Christ, and to be like Christ in His death.



I am saying that without God, no one would come to Him. We are enabled to come to Him, or, we are awakened to the Truth. This is what each of the physical healings represents in the NT. All of John chapter 9 shows that all healings are a reflection of the healing of the Human Heart. It is this Circumcision of Heart that causes a person to see and know the Truth, and when a person understands this Truth, it will be impossible to deny it.

yeah I think we are agreeing .

God is the source my point is he has sent the gospel to everybody whoever believes will Be saved. Whoever doesn’t will be damned

I don’t believe we don’t have a choice I believe God already knows but that doesn’t affect our ability ton CB lose life or death I agree Gods in control I also believe he have man by design free will and choice and will never take that away

our place is to believe the gospel and the gospel teaches us everything we need to do

it’s not Christ does everything for me but “ I can do all things through christ who gives Me strength “

it’s not “ Jesus is carrying me on my cross on his back , it is “ anyone who would come after me must deny himself pick up his cross and follow
Me


the gospel is an enabler forums of we believe and receive it as he sent it forth it’s meant to heal us make us strong in him for the glory of his name and our salvation

we can receive the word but then

“But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:20-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

To hear and accept thkngs like that parable , is what forms the right understanding and enables us
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
1,544
497
83
#46
After experiencing terrible heart ache., I raised my hand to heaven in a closed room and said, "You are Who You are," if you are good and good is going to come out of all of this wickedness and oppression, I would like to know Who you are, and I may even choose to serve you be it possible or necessary>"

The room was locked, and I vowed not to leave until I received an answer, and not to eat either. I did not kow I had said I was goinng to fast.

Right away, I fell into a deep sleep. It waas given to me what I was to do in a dream. No, I did not understand yet but I was given to believe it all to be from our Maker.

The following day while pondering the dream I kept thinking, saying in my heart, "Wow, man is really evil. He is just plain wicked. HEY! iI AME A MAN! YOU ARE IT!"

Everything turned to Light, and the Light came into me. I knew I had met God. I Everything seems to be right. It was. I turned around from where I had intended to go and ran back to the Student Union where I joined my very good friend, Shelly. All I could say when he had asked what happened to me is "God's Spirit came into me, your God, Yahweh."

That night, in a campus coffee house, "The Red Herring," a book came into my hands.. long story. After reading just a line or two in the page it was opened to, I found myself say "The is right, and that is absolutely right." I looked to the top of the page. It was Isaiah.

The following day I went to the Student Book Store and purchased my own copy of this particular version, "The Oxford Study Bible."

Jesus-Yeshua has been my Lord, Savior and generally, my Boss ever since..

So Yes, the Fasther draws people to the Son. All blessing in the love of Jesus.
that’s a wonderful experience thanks for sharing

yes but only if we’re willing to believe his word like Noah

Noah was “
Drawn by God “ to build the ark simply because he told him about the flood and to build the ark. God draws us through our belief , he doesn’t force us to believe or force us not to believe

Satan blinds us to the truth , he’s the one whomis imposing his will on us enslaving people by deception , Gods word always and forever means freedom to choose your own fate

that’s all I’m saying Gos knows who’s in already and who’s out but our end is from our perspective so it’s about belief of what he said

Christians often believe the gospel out his death for thoer sins but stop right there d won’t believe the gospel he preached for salvation . We have a choice when we hear the truth to reject it or accept it God doesn’t force us either way he’s trying to free us from the oppressor
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
1,152
466
83
#47
I don’t believe we don’t have a choice I believe God already knows but that doesn’t affect our ability ton CB lose life or death I agree Gods in control I also believe he have man by design free will and choice and will never take that away
Ok, well, in Ezekiel 11 and 36, we are told that God will replace the Hearts within His Children so that they will turn to Him and obey Him. He also states that He gives us a new Spirit. And . . . that is exactly what Jesus does in Colossians 2:9-15. Check it out:

Ezekiel 11:19-20 NIV - "I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh. 20 Then they will follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. They will be my people, and I will be their God."

Ezekiel 36:25-27 NIV - "I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws."

Colossians 2:11-15 KJV - "In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 [And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."

Col 3:2:11-15 describes the "Operation of God," which is the Holy Work to be performed as described in Ezekiel 11 and 36. This is 100% what the entire Bible is about. Please note what I just wrote. These three passages that I have provided above are exactly what the entire Bible encompasses. Without this Holy Work of Christ, there is no reason for the Bible to have been written. Without these passages sets, there is no reason for Creation to exist at all.

Why is this important? Because God promised to reverse the Curse that beset the "ground," or, all of Creation and this reversal comes through Christ. We don't choose God. He chooses us.

John 15:16 NKJV - 16 "You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you."

Having read the Bible several times, and having put thousands of hours into cataloging scriptures into an Excel spreadsheet . . . the only reasonable conclusion that I have been able to make (thus far), is that Salvation is by the Choice of God . . . nothing else.

Exodus 33:19 NKJV - "Then He said, "I will make all My goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before you. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
1,544
497
83
#48
Ok, well, in Ezekiel 11 and 36, we are told that God will replace the Hearts within His Children so that they will turn to Him and obey Him. He also states that He gives us a new Spirit. And . . . that is exactly what Jesus does in Colossians 2:9-15. Check it out:

Ezekiel 11:19-20 NIV - "I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh. 20 Then they will follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. They will be my people, and I will be their God."

Ezekiel 36:25-27 NIV - "I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws."

Colossians 2:11-15 KJV - "In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 [And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."

Col 3:2:11-15 describes the "Operation of God," which is the Holy Work to be performed as described in Ezekiel 11 and 36. This is 100% what the entire Bible is about. Please note what I just wrote. These three passages that I have provided above are exactly what the entire Bible encompasses. Without this Holy Work of Christ, there is no reason for the Bible to have been written. Without these passages sets, there is no reason for Creation to exist at all.

Why is this important? Because God promised to reverse the Curse that beset the "ground," or, all of Creation and this reversal comes through Christ. We don't choose God. He chooses us.

John 15:16 NKJV - 16 "You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you."

Having read the Bible several times, and having put thousands of hours into cataloging scriptures into an Excel spreadsheet . . . the only reasonable conclusion that I have been able to make (thus far), is that Salvation is by the Choice of God . . . nothing else.

Exodus 33:19 NKJV - "Then He said, "I will make all My goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before you. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."
yeah that promise comes by believing the gospel brother .
That new heart and spirit is what the gospel promises if we believe and accept his word

For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:...


..Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”

‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬



“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”

‭‭John‬ ‭8:51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Whereas if we reject him and his words

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”

‭‭John‬ ‭12:48‬ ‭

“Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.”

‭‭John‬ ‭14:23-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬



“Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.”

‭‭John‬ ‭7:16-17‬ ‭

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not:

for it was founded upon a rock.

And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.”

‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:21-27‬ ‭

the thing is to believe the way Jesus doctrine teaches us to believe. That shapes everything by faith

It’s always repentance , and remission of sins. Always forgiveness and also repentance that is simply put a choice God knows from before the beginning who’s going to be there but the doorway is open for all the world now and there’s no more excuse

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭

when we read thkngs like this and believe it’s one thing , when we refuse to believe it is different it has a different effect on our mind and heart . We can believe the death of Jesus and even that he rose from the dead if we then refuse his word we don’t have the repentance part

Peter is talking about the end of the world to come and explaining why it’s not come yet

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”

‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Because if we don’t

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”

‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so God sent out the gospel which if we believe brings us into the understanding of repentance

I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”

‭‭Luke‬ ‭5:32‬ ‭

All have sinned and so he sent the call to repentance out to all who will believe

first he came from heaven and preached the gospel to Israel

“Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.”

‭‭Luke‬ ‭3:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬



“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”

‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

then he sent them to preach the same gospel to all People and spread it through the world



“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”

‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬

if we believe well Make the choices his word creates for us, if we hear and disbelieve we’re going to remain in the deception and snare within us

“In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the power to choose life comes when we accept and believe the gospel

“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Christ makes us able to do the things we need to but it’s only if we believe

I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭4:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The gospel is what changes us within and creates that new heart and spirit
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
5,179
1,601
113
#50
Ok, well, in Ezekiel 11 and 36, we are told that God will replace the Hearts within His Children so that they will turn to Him and obey Him. He also states that He gives us a new Spirit. And . . . that is exactly what Jesus does in Colossians 2:9-15. Check it out:

Ezekiel 11:19-20 NIV - "I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh. 20 Then they will follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. They will be my people, and I will be their God."

Ezekiel 36:25-27 NIV - "I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws."

Colossians 2:11-15 KJV - "In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 [And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."

Col 3:2:11-15 describes the "Operation of God," which is the Holy Work to be performed as described in Ezekiel 11 and 36. This is 100% what the entire Bible is about. Please note what I just wrote. These three passages that I have provided above are exactly what the entire Bible encompasses. Without this Holy Work of Christ, there is no reason for the Bible to have been written. Without these passages sets, there is no reason for Creation to exist at all.

Why is this important? Because God promised to reverse the Curse that beset the "ground," or, all of Creation and this reversal comes through Christ. We don't choose God. He chooses us.

John 15:16 NKJV - 16 "You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you."

Having read the Bible several times, and having put thousands of hours into cataloging scriptures into an Excel spreadsheet . . . the only reasonable conclusion that I have been able to make (thus far), is that Salvation is by the Choice of God . . . nothing else.

Exodus 33:19 NKJV - "Then He said, "I will make all My goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before you. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."
We are given a new spirit, but we always have a choice on whether we accept or reject that spirit. God does not take back His promises, ever, and if we could not reject the new spirit we are given, then the promise that we always have free choice would be cancelled.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
1,152
466
83
#51
We are given a new spirit, but we always have a choice on whether we accept or reject that spirit. God does not take back His promises, ever, and if we could not reject the new spirit we are given, then the promise that we always have free choice would be canceled.
Okie Doke.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
1,544
497
83
#52
We are given a new spirit, but we always have a choice on whether we accept or reject that spirit. God does not take back His promises, ever, and if we could not reject the new spirit we are given, then the promise that we always have free choice would be cancelled.
Yes and everyone who ever suffered or commuted sin would be performing Gods will because they would have no free will of their own to choose

God doesn’t have to wait to know who chose him in this world he knows the end before the beginning but we are those who are doing the choosing in our lifetime

Satan took our will away through sin but Christ gives us freedom again to choose life
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
1,152
466
83
#53
Yes and everyone who ever suffered or commuted sin would be performing Gods will because they would have no free will of their own to choose
That's exactly right. And, that's exactly what happened, which is what you say is erroneous.

Romans 11:7-8 NLT - "So this is the situation: Most of the people of Israel have not found the favor of God they are looking for so earnestly. A few have--the ones God has chosen--but the hearts of the rest were hardened. 8 As the Scriptures say, "God has put them into a deep sleep. To this day he has shut their eyes so they do not see, and closed their ears so they do not hear."
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
1,544
497
83
#54
We are given a new spirit, but we always have a choice on whether we accept or reject that spirit. God does not take back His promises, ever, and if we could not reject the new spirit we are given, then the promise that we always have free choice would be cancelled.
That's exactly right. And, that's exactly what happened, which is what you say is erroneous.

Romans 11:7-8 NLT - "So this is the situation: Most of the people of Israel have not found the favor of God they are looking for so earnestly. A few have--the ones God has chosen--but the hearts of the rest were hardened. 8 As the Scriptures say, "God has put them into a deep sleep. To this day he has shut their eyes so they do not see, and closed their ears so they do not hear."
no I think there was a miscommunication , I’m talking about a believer we have a choice to believe the gospel or reject the gospel .

that’s not determined by God alone we have to choose to believe the word that’s what gives us freedom again .

I’m not talking about people who are deceived brother people here I’m assuming are believers in his name

we the church have to share the real gospel amongst ourselves and believe it rather than all the noise that came after the gospel was established

it’s a choice to be saved , or lost now we don’t have the excuse of being deceived once we know the truth

it gives us hope through repentance now rather than certain death under the law and transgression there’s no choice outside of Christ , we need to as believers believe his word and also the truth that his blood was shed for us

that’s a covenant first the word is spoken and then the blood is shed like Moses did it

“And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient. And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord hath made with you concerning all these words.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭24:7-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s how a covenant is made Gods word spoken and heard by people and then blood is shed to atone for thier souls and last transgression before entering the covenant

the old covenant was made there Moses word , animal blood for atonement .

the gospel is the new covenant . Jesus first preached the gospel all throughout Israel and then sent the gospel all through the world to even us now we heard it because it’s written.

after he preached the gospel just like Moses did Jesus shed the blood of atonement that is according to his words . To accept and believe this new covenant is what creates that new heart and mind that new born will and accomplishes repentance

it’s belief of the gospel that’s all
It takes but we have to accept the word of the gospel as well as the events of the cross and empty tomb

the choice is on the freedom Jesus gives us to choose eternal life that’s my point we’re not without choice anymore when our choice was lost to Satan God sent the gospel we have a choice to believe or reject his word
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
1,152
466
83
#55
it’s a choice to be saved
I hear you. What do you think of Christian killer, Saul? Did he have a choice to be chosen by God?

Acts 9:15-16 NLT - "But the Lord said, "Go, for Saul is my chosen instrument to take my message to the Gentiles and to kings, as well as to the people of Israel. And I will show him how much he must suffer for my name's sake."
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
18,547
4,779
113
#56
Will anyone demonstrate from the OT how Paul is foretold? John the Baptist is, the Twelve are, even Judas Iscariot is, but I cannot find Paul anywhere in the OT.

I do, however, see all reading what Paul has written about himself. And, NO, i do not discount Paul, but I am very curious how he became the source authority for so many when we have the Evangelists teaching from the Mouth of Yeshua from the gitgo.

Perhaps the Jews were to teache in Greek in the assemblies? They are theones who called the new disciples Christians in Antioch, according to that writing of Acts.
 

tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
4,617
271
83
#57
There is one single covenant of grace which is and remains the same from Adam until Christ's coming unto judgment—a covenant in which all partakers have an equal portion and the same rights, and of which Jesus Christ is Surety (Heb 7:22). Since there is but one covenant and one Surety, and all the partakers of the covenant have equal rights and partake of this covenant in the same way, Christ must also be the same Surety at all times, and His suretyship must be of the same efficacy both before as well as after His actual satisfaction. - Wilhelmus A. Brakel
 

tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
4,617
271
83
#58
sure he does through his word those who believe him. He doesn’t force us either way it’s a choice he was attempting to draw these in also but they refused

“I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing:

therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:19‬ ‭

God draws men surely , he speaks his word and whoever will believe will be drawn to him . It’s a choice it has always has been God provided Cain also with the same word that would have drawn him in but Cain rejected it and chose death like Adam he had life and death before him he chose death
You do understand that ‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:19‬ ‭ is addressed to the covenant people of God and not the unbelievers and worldlings, do you?
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
1,544
497
83
#59
I hear you. What do you think of Christian killer, Saul? Did he have a choice to be chosen by God?

Acts 9:15-16 NLT - "But the Lord said, "Go, for Saul is my chosen instrument to take my message to the Gentiles and to kings, as well as to the people of Israel. And I will show him how much he must suffer for my name's sake."
Brother Gods will is that all will repent and be saved

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If it was Gods choice alone everyone would come to repentance and be saved . His will is that all come to repentance and bone perish

that’s Gods choice , so what he did was sent the gospel into the world so that anyone who will believe the gospel can be saved .

it’s not beyond us to believe the gospel . Consider Thomas

“The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.”
‭‭John‬ ‭20:25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s a decision he made all the disciples were telling him the lord is Rosen we saw him Thomas in his stubbornness decided” unless I touch and see him myself I will
NEver believe “

so what does Jesus do with Thomas doubt ? He shows up with proof to convince him so he will believe

“And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭20:26-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

do you see what I’m saying ? The gospel is out there to convince us to believe that Jesus is the Christ and son of God. That’s why we’re told tomoresch the gospel. And believe the gospel because it moves us into faith from doubt but not if we reject it

Thomas didn’t believe but then he did when he was convinced. Belief isn’t a magic thing that we have no ability to choose . If we have doubts we need to hear the gospel and believe it choose to believe what we are hearing like Thomas didn’t .

the world is called by the gospel and throne who receive and believe the gospel are the chosen. Everyone called isn’t going to be saved the call is to all the world to repent and believe

faith comes into us through hearing the gospel

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

but we cannot believe what we refuse to hear and accept as truth . So the gospel is preached in the world in order that any who believe can be saved

Listen brother pre destination and ore ordination is a real thing , it’s looking from Gods view who knows the end before we get there . We don’t have the knowledge of who is pre destined we have to look at things from our perspective .

the gospel is in the world and believers can believe the gospel or reject it it’s a free will decision to reject his word or accept it he doesn’t do the believing part for us we have to believe what he has done
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
1,544
497
83
#60
You do understand that ‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:19‬ ‭ is addressed to the covenant people of God and not the unbelievers and worldlings, do you?
sure . The point is they were given a choice .

you do realize this is for the covenant people of God now don’t you ?

“I have set before you life and death “

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

choose life that he and your may live