Zionism among the Evangelicals is contradicted by Scripture

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TMS

TMS

Senior Member
#241
Mar 21, 2015
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#241
History shows that God was faithful on His part.
Israel was faulty in their part of the agreement..
Jesus is the fullness of the promise, and in Jesus mankind is able to access the promises God has prepared for those that love Him.

Prophesy doesn't have Israel as the ruling kingdom, because the kingdom will be ruled by Jesus, and race or nationality will mean nothing.
 
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ThereRoseaLamb

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#242
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#242
Beckie said:
A couple quotes from the Word.

Gen 17:9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
Gen 17:10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
Gen 17:11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
Gen 17:12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.
Gen 17:13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
Gen 17:14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.


Gen 18:18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
Gen 18:19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

Lev 26:40 If they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me;
Lev 26:41 And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:

Lev 26:42 Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.

Deu 7:12 Wherefore it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgments, and keep, and do them, that the LORD thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which he sware unto thy fathers
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You're gonna want to knock me in the head. ;) But I'm going back to the broken record of " the Abrahamic Covenant" was unconditional and everlasting. Some of the covenants were conditional, some weren't correct?
 
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ThereRoseaLamb

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#243
TMS said:
History shows that God was faithful on His part.
Israel was faulty in their part of the agreement..
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The Abrahamic Covenant was unconditional. Study and read up on covenants. God held Himself responsible for this covenant.

TMS said:
Prophesy doesn't have Israel as the ruling kingdom, because the kingdom will be ruled by Jesus, and race or nationality will mean nothing.
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He will rule from Jerusalem, Israel is the apple of His eye. That has not changed. God has never stopped loving or calling to the Jews.
 
Beckie

Beckie

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Feb 15, 2022
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ThereRoseaLamb
What scriptures support the idea that the covenant wiht Abraham was unconditional ? I read clearly God gave them conditions.
Scripture also tells us

Jos 21:44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
Jos 21:45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.
 
Beckie

Beckie

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ThereRoseaLamb said:
You're gonna want to knock me in the head. ;) But I'm going back to the broken record of " the Abrahamic Covenant" was unconditional and everlasting. Some of the covenants were conditional, some weren't correct?
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Gen 17 i posted above was written about the Abrahamic covenant,,, Says Beckie knocking you up side your head wiht the Scriptures :)My sister and i have this same conversation , we still love each other :)
 
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ThereRoseaLamb

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#246
Beckie said:
Gen 17 i posted above was written about the Abrahamic covenant,,, Says Beckie knocking you up side your head wiht the Scriptures :)My sister and i have this same conversation , we still love each other :)
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Lol I love this answer totally!! So your sister agrees with me! You need to invite her here so we can hash it out together. :ROFL:
 
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Locoponydirtman

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#247
The Abrahamic covenant is fulfilled in the Church through Christ Jesus. As Paul explains, saying not all of Israel is Israel.
 
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ThereRoseaLamb

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Locoponydirtman said:
The Abrahamic covenant is fulfilled in the Church through Christ Jesus. As Paul explains, saying not all of Israel is Israel.
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Really, has Israel all the land God promised them? Pretty sure we shared a map that showed that it hasn't been. The promise of that land is eternal, that hasn't happened yet either.
 
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Locoponydirtman

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#249
#249
ThereRoseaLamb said:
Really, has Israel all the land God promised them? Pretty sure we shared a map that showed that it hasn't been. The promise of that land is eternal, that hasn't happened yet either.
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Not all if Israel is Israel, all the church is
 
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Locoponydirtman

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#251
Jesus will fix that when He gets back anyway.
 
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ThereRoseaLamb

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Locoponydirtman said:
Jesus will fix that when He gets back anyway.
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It's already been fixed. I have a really hard job understanding how people don't understand how covenants were made and why the Abrahamic Covenant was unconditional. Some were conditional, some were not. You are trusting God will keep His covenant to you, but not the Jews. What makes you think He will be faithful to you, if He breaks His covenants. Everyone who disagrees with what I am saying, go read up on OT covenants. Read which were conditional and which were not. Then go back and read the Abrahamic covenant and explain how it was conditional. You can't.
 
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Locoponydirtman

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#253
ThereRoseaLamb said:
It's already been fixed. I have a really hard job understanding how people don't understand how covenants were made and why the Abrahamic Covenant was unconditional. Some were conditional, some were not. You are trusting God will keep His covenant to you, but not the Jews. What makes you think He will be faithful to you, if He breaks His covenants. Everyone who disagrees with what I am saying, go read up on OT covenants. Read which were conditional and which were not. Then go back and read the Abrahamic covenant and explain how it was conditional. You can't.
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I feel the same way. How ya dont understand that the sons of Abraham are the children of faith, not the children of flesh but of the Spirit
 
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ThereRoseaLamb

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Locoponydirtman said:
I feel the same way. How ya dont understand that the sons of Abraham are the children of faith, not the children of flesh but of the Spirit
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No, that is misinformed. I do not believe one is saved because they have a Jewish bloodline. But replacement theology is heresy. Both Catholics and Protestants repented of this belief after the Holocaust. The church does not replace the Jews and the unconditional covenant was made to the Jews, not the church. If God won't keep His promise to the Jews, He won't keep His promise to you. Unconditional and everlasting means what it means.
 
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ThereRoseaLamb

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Locoponydirtman said:
I feel the same way. How ya dont understand that the sons of Abraham are the children of faith, not the children of flesh but of the Spirit
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Do you disagree with these covenants? If so explain why please. You will see some are conditional, some are not. So where is the gap or misunderstanding?
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ButterflyJones

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Feb 5, 2023
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ThereRoseaLamb said:
No, that is misinformed. I do not believe one is saved because they have a Jewish bloodline. But replacement theology is heresy. Both Catholics and Protestants repented of this belief after the Holocaust. The church does not replace the Jews and the unconditional covenant was made to the Jews, not the church. If God won't keep His promise to the Jews, He won't keep His promise to you. Unconditional and everlasting means what it means.
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Replacement theology adherents would certainly explain some of the pov's here regarding certain teachings of Emmanuel. 🤔
 
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ThereRoseaLamb

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Locoponydirtman said:
You gotts back that middle one up with scripture
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I gotts to? Yeah, the printing was so small I had to enlarge it. I read an article the other day talking about how the Jews will return once in disobedience and then with a new heart. Let me see if I can find it, it had Scripture refs. I believe it may have had the point of the dry bones coming together as proof if I recall.
 
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