Abortian

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Cako53

Guest
#181
#181
Matthew said:
The only time I really struggle with this issue is when it is a case of rape, I could never empathise or understand how a woman would feel in that posiiton, to have to make a decision like that in the wake of such trauma is unimaginable to me, but I would hope with counsel and support she would understand that there had been two victims of that rape, not just one, and the child inside her now would now need her support just like she would need everybody else's, and hopefully then the baby could be born and either taken into the family or given for adoption.
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I understand what you mean here, but is it not still murder? No matter the circumstances it is still murder. Can she not have the baby and put it up for addoption?
 
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Matthew

Guest
#182
#182
Cako53 said:
I understand what you mean here, but is it not still murder? No matter the circumstances it is still murder. Can she not have the baby and put it up for addoption?
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I don't see how your question relates to what I posted but I was making the case that women should have the baby and give it for adoption, I was clear about this.

As for abortion being murder, like I said in my first post, I consider it to be a fairly irrelevant question, we should stop wasting time defining what abortion is and put our energies to stopping it all together, it's wrong and once I know that I know enough.
 
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Cako53

Guest
#183
#183
Matthew said:
I don't see how your question relates to what I posted but I was making the case that women should have the baby and give it for adoption, I was clear about this.

As for abortion being murder, like I said in my first post, I consider it to be a fairly irrelevant question, we should stop wasting time defining what abortion is and put our energies to stopping it all together, it's wrong and once I know that I know enough.
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Ohh wow, I apologize, I thought you were saying that when a woman was raped that wsa an exception to abortion. Sorry, my bad.
 
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Matthew

Guest
#184
#184
No worries man :) Sorry if I wasn't completely clear.
 
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kyote1

Guest
#185
#185
Coming in to this late obviously, but was incest mentioned? That would kind of fall under rape right?
 
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Cako53

Guest
#187
#187
kyote1 said:
Coming in to this late obviously, but was incest mentioned? That would kind of fall under rape right?
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I'm saying I agree with incest, but is their not cases of incest in the bible?
 
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Matthew

Guest
#188
#188
kyote1 said:
Coming in to this late obviously, but was incest mentioned? That would kind of fall under rape right?
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It wouldn't neccesarily be rape, incest is sometimes a voluntary activity where both consent.

Do you mean when a family member rapes another?, if so I would say the same thing should apply, hopefully the baby could be carried to term and taken into a new family, and the mother given the absolute maximum support possible to help her recover from everything that happened.
The potential tragedy in that situation is that children of incest can be more prone to birth defects and health problems, which would obviously have an impact on the childs quality of life.
 
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tryingtofindhim

Guest
#189
#189
kyote1 said:
Coming in to this late obviously, but was incest mentioned? That would kind of fall under rape right?
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ya, that I think is the hardest to have a baby under that situation especially if they don't feel like they can talk about it.
 
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iraasuup

Guest
#190
#190
Why punish the child for the crime of the father?

The father commits an abominable act like rape or incest... and the CHILD is the one that gets punished.. yeah, that's justice! NOT!
 
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tryingtofindhim

Guest
#191
#191
iraasuup said:
Why punish the child for the crime of the father?

The father commits an abominable act like rape or incest... and the CHILD is the one that gets punished.. yeah, that's justice! NOT!
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what are you talking about?
 
Christianrkchk89

Christianrkchk89

Senior Member
#193
Aug 27, 2005
1,282
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#193
Matthew said:
I am against abortion completely, it should never happen, but I have always thought that it is pointless to discuss things like whether or not it can be called murder, and when can an embryo be considered to be 'alive', to me these things are pointless sidetracks of the main issue and whatever conclusion is reached that conclusion gets us no closer to dealing with the problem.

My first feeling here is that there is not enough attention paid to the wider consequences of abortion, it is a sad truth that many women and young girls get pregnant from drunken liasons and often in these cases the 'father' never even knows, and that's awful because who knows what he might have said about it, or have been willing to do.
I have great respect for the fact that women have to bear the physical burden but in my opinion no actions should be taken without the two people in question both being involved and this doesn't always happen, partly due to the very natural immaturity of the young girls making these decisions.

But in general abortion puts a tremendous emotional strain on women and men and often people move forward and suffer guilt and depression because of what they have done and this is just one of many serious issues people face relating to abortion.

My point is that even people who are pro-choice would probably agree that in an ideal world it would not ever happen, so as a groups in society we need to all stop arguing and letting our opinons divide us and start coming together to make abortion irrelevant in tommorow's world by dealing with the cause today, I know that is a big ask and not easy to achieve, but making laws that switch with every change in government is not the way to go, and that is how it is in too many places at the moment.
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Thanks so much for your input! I agree wholeheartedly!
 
Christianrkchk89

Christianrkchk89

Senior Member
#194
Aug 27, 2005
1,282
12
38
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#194
kyote1 said:
Coming in to this late obviously, but was incest mentioned? That would kind of fall under rape right?
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I did a few pages back put a statistic about how only 1% of all abortions are due to rape/incest. But other than that not much was mentioned, no.
 
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iraasuup

Guest
#195
#195
Yes my point is..

It shouldn't matter how the child was conceived... it doesn't change the fact... it is STILL a child.

If the mother was a victim of rape/incest, or made a poor choice, or is married and has just decided she in't ready.. all of that is irrelevant. It is still a child, regardless of how it came to be a child.. it is STILL and ALWAYS will be a child. From the moment of conception (even if that conception took place in less than ideal circumstances).


Soooo, when I said why punish the child for the crime of the father? I was referring to instances of rape/incest.

My point is.. It doesn't matter how to child came to be, we don't have a right to kill it for our own convenience.

Also something to consider... God has plan for each and very one of us. He knit us together in out Mother's womb. We may have been conceived in less-than- ideal circumstances, but it doesn't mean God loves us any less, and it certainly doesn't mean he doesn't have a plan for us.
 
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that_one_guy

Guest
#196
#196
its really a no brainer, its murder
 
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tryingtofindhim

Guest
#198
#198
iraasuup said:
Yes my point is..

It shouldn't matter how the child was conceived... it doesn't change the fact... it is STILL a child.

If the mother was a victim of rape/incest, or made a poor choice, or is married and has just decided she in't ready.. all of that is irrelevant. It is still a child, regardless of how it came to be a child.. it is STILL and ALWAYS will be a child. From the moment of conception (even if that conception took place in less than ideal circumstances).


Soooo, when I said why punish the child for the crime of the father? I was referring to instances of rape/incest.

My point is.. It doesn't matter how to child came to be, we don't have a right to kill it for our own convenience.

Also something to consider... God has plan for each and very one of us. He knit us together in out Mother's womb. We may have been conceived in less-than- ideal circumstances, but it doesn't mean God loves us any less, and it certainly doesn't mean he doesn't have a plan for us.
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I don't believe I said anything in that post about killing the baby; I did say it would be difficult. Please correct me if I am wrong.
 
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imoss

Banned
#199
Feb 27, 2007
3,179
19
0
#199
Abortion is killing a baby. but for this action there would have been a live breathing human being born unto the mother... If it is not a baby then there is no reason to eliminate it as nothing will happen 7, 8 , 9 months down the road.
 
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iraasuup

Guest
#200
#200
*bangs head on desk*

I give up!
 
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