Can you call yourself a Christian if you voted for Obama?

[Geo_Rivero]

The truth is that it is hard to be the President of the USA and impose your own brliefs on a country that believes in the separation of church and state. Any candidate can believe in God and be Christian but truth is that their are many other beliefs in the US and he has to be fair and impartial to them all. This is the land of the free not of the Christian. Some of those other beliefs are pro choice, and pro gay unions(some of these folks are Christian). I mean if he lead by strict Christian law which many of us dont follow, this would not be the land of the free but the land of the forced. Please understand that his job is to look out for the better of society as whole not that of the Church. I mean if he took away all the stuff that we consider sin like abortians, gay unions, booze, porn etc etc. At what point does our own free will to deny these things and follow God come in to play. I dont care who we would have voted, still they would have had to take care of society as whole not as a Christian one.

 

[chelsers]

Wait, wait, wait. I think you're off track. If you want me to defend my Christianity, I won't. I don't need to. I'm not running for president, but if I did, I would campaign according to the bible and that's a fact. Obama did not even come close and he won on the backs of many Christians. That irks me and it should irk many.

I never asked you to defend your Christianity. Obama's policies irk me, and I said so in my previous post.

 

[chelsers]

Of course you can Jesus told us we will know them by their fruits, and John the Apostle told us that the children of Satan and the children of God are easily distinguished.

Matthew 7
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.


1st John 3
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.



Obama is a habitual, unrepentant sinner, who bares nothing but bad fruit. I can confidently say according to God's word, he is no Christian.

I don't know if you read through what I wrote, but I was referring to who people vote for. I firmly believe many Christians are misguided (even you and I from time to time believe it or not) I never said a word about Obama. Do I think he's not a Christian? Probably not. Do I have a right to make that judgment, no I'm not God.

 

[chelsers]

Actually James tells us we can see what is in a mans heart and if they truly have faith in God or not by the way they act.
James 2
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Yes if someone is continually unrepentant that's true. I was saying someone who misguidedly casts a vote for Obama isn't necessarily not a Christian. I think in those cases you need to find out why, maybe it really is a case of ignorance. Show them their ignorance and if they still don't see, then make the judgment.

In regards to Barack Obama...

"What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you." – 1 Cor 5:12

 

[chelsers]

my salvation is the same the day i was born again and received the Holy spirit and knew nothing about works as it is today 16 years later where the Holy spirit convicts me of what is right and true and I've learned to listen and therefore in most cases produce good fruit. Being the sinner that I am though... sometimes i run it in the ditch. My Perfection is in Christ's covering of me. Please also dont insinuate that being Catholic somehow excludes people from eternal salvation through Christ our Lord. I'm not saying I agree with the practices of the Church & yes, i've seen priests who DO NOT know the lord, only know the religion but i've also met Holy spirit filled catholics who i would never say are not covered by their Lord and Saviour Christ Jesus. I do recommend that they start their own idividual Bible study, this can lead to breakaway from the Church (as my husband and many others i know did) Jesus rebuked the pharasees because they had all their ducks in a row as far as religion went but their hearts were all wrong. Judge your own heart and focus on your own self and your walk with the Lord, apply his words to yourself instead of throwing them at others. I found when i started doing this my growth in the Lord and in my relationships was amazing! God bless you as you seek the truth in Gods word and as you try to work hard to make yourself worthy. Just know that we are all unworthy.

I agree, totally.

 

[chelsers]

So what you're saying is a good tree can produce bad fruit. Mat: 7:18 says a good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
Mat 21:19; Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, "May you never bear fruit again!" Immediately the tree withered. God did not even consider the pith of the tree or even the roots. It was simply the fruit. You said some Christians don't do what they should and don't live as we're supposed to. Again, that's the point. If they're not, then what are they?

Can you honestly say that you always produce good fruit?

 

[eringobrea]

Having a stiff neck toward compromise is what God wants. In fact he condemns Luke Warm Christians in Rev: 3:16. I also know of born again Catholics but they number very few. The traditional and typical Catholic church is border line blasphemous. And if you want to state the fact that you voted for Obama (a.k.a. Luke Warm Christian) you should know what you voted for, it's disgusting what the result of a partial birth abortion looks like.

 

[eringobrea]

Please don't call out my Christianity. An eye for an eye.... The first stone.... I would never run for president and if I did. I would base my campaign on the bible. Obama went so far as to promise the continuation of the tearing down of scriptures in public places. You voted for that? T.D. Jakes voted for that? Christians are proud of that?

 

[Grimaldus]

As an american I think I should say that seperation of church and state is very important, and should be an unquestionable rule.

As I recall (feel free to 2x double check) 15% of Americans are either agnostic or athiests. How do you justify using your religion to trample over the smaller people? Not everyone shares the same views as you, so when you vote, remember that your vote is deciding the fate of the rest of us. We have had A LOT of differences, and the religious strains are getting large.

In the end I suppose this may be an over used pun, but the US is us. All of us. Please regard those who do not agree with you. I think Obama is a fine choice for president. He's not perfect, none of us are, and I disagree with him on many points (one of which being his religion) but I think he supports freedom and justice for all.

 

[eringobrea]

Wait a second. Ummm... I was under the impression that this country was founded on completely different principles than what you're stating. Are you a Christian Grimaldus? The bible is clear on government issues, our leaders, and our actions as Christians. If you are a Christian, you sound confused. If you are not, you're right on.

 

[Grimaldus]

Wait a second. Ummm... I was under the impression that this country was founded on completely different principles than what you're stating. Are you a Christian Grimaldus? The bible is clear on government issues, our leaders, and our actions as Christians. If you are a Christian, you sound confused. If you are not, you're right on.

Well thanks, man

I'm right on then

 

[MahogonySnail]

Whoever someone votes for doesn't make them not a Christian. Why, you could vote for Hitler or Stalin and still call yourself a Christian.

I recall McCain is quoted as supporting gay marriage too , amongst other things, not to mention him claimed being an informant to the enemy in Vietnam.

 

[MahogonySnail]

As an american I think I should say that seperation of church and state is very important, and should be an unquestionable rule.

I agree, for the mutual benefit of both. But not to be confused with absense of religion in politics, or absense of politics in religion.

In the end I suppose this may be an over used pun, but the US is us. All of us. Please regard those who do not agree with you. I think Obama is a fine choice for president. He's not perfect, none of us are, and I disagree with him on many points (one of which being his religion) but I think he supports freedom and justice for all.

Which is probably more in line with the American ideal than religious fundamentalism. Afterall, the US was based upon deist principles, a large percentage of them being free-masons, afterall. I believe the US is simply going back to its roots, after a period of staunch religious fundamentalism.

 

[espresso]

Matthew 12:30 says, “Anyone who isn't helping me opposes me, and anyone who isn't working with me is actually working against me”

I think it’s pretty clear by Obama’s actions that he opposes God. He is the most pro-abortion (baby murder) president this country has ever had even saying that if one of his daughters got pregnant he would not want them “punished” with a baby, last week he instituted National GLBT day which celebrates Gays, Lesbians, Bisexuals and Transgender, he spent 20 years going to a church that preaches hate, he recently spoke at Georgetown University and had a cross covered up before he would speak, he says we are not a Christian Nation, and on and on and on………....

He is clearly FOR the things that God is AGAINST, so to vote for someone who opposes God is to partner with or help them which means that person is opposing God as well. Why would anyone who professes to be a Christian empower a person who is against God?

 

[eringobrea]

Hitler.... Obama.... nah, I won't even bother with that one. That's rediculous. You're desperate. An informant to the enemy in Vietnam? You mean he got those debilitating injuries to his body from a bike accident? C'mon, the book, the movie, the documentaries, I assume you're not American but you can still get those things online and educate yourself. And there's an important issue here that is plaguing America today that seems to be a thorn in the American Christian church, which is tolerance. God was not, is not, and won't ever by tolerant. He is a jelous God and we were created in his image. We are not to tolerate compromise as Christians by voting for people like Obama. We are to stand for the bible, which by the way, is why I didn't vote for McCain either. I know that may shock you since you seem to have garnered that assumption on your own. The bible is clear on government, abomination, and murder. We as Christians need to aware of that when we put into office a man like Obama who supports homosexuality (abomination) and abortion (murder). Those that are tolerant and compromising will pay on judgement day.

 

[MahogonySnail]

We had fairly extensive election coverage here in Australia about the presidential elections, both before, during and post elections. Plus there was a documentary or something about McCain and the vietnam vets, and what they have against him. I recall the issues were, his injuries werent extensive enough and he survived the prison camps. That he informed the interrogators to avoid torture etc. Then you had military people saying how getting shot down over Vietnam and surviving POW camp doesnt make you an expert commander in chief, or commander at all. He had little or no experience in military command.

Nonetheless, I would expect christians to not have voted at all seeing as there was no candidate fundamentilist enough for most it would seem. Besides, whats the voting for Obama going to do so badly? Improve relations with Europe, middle east (egypt), Russia...such a bad thing?
Compared to the previous, the man is more of a man of peace, thank goodness for that. The bigger picture is so much bigger than the two issues of abortion and homosexuality, yet unfortunately that is the best that narrow-minded Christian fundamentlists can come up with.

 

[eringobrea]

Well, there certainly are other issues but to a Christian, morality should be first and foremost. The documentary you saw sounds different from the ones they played here and international relations? Just ask any Israeli how they feel about Obama right now, it's not good. By the way, his approval ratings have sunk for a reason. That reason has a lot to do with international affairs not to mention the dozens of promises that he's now having to break. And as far as experience. Less than 200 days as a congressman should not even get you noticed. He's flamboyant and black, and that does get you not only noticed but apparently the job.

 

[espresso]

We had fairly extensive election coverage here in Australia about the presidential elections, both before, during and post elections. Plus there was a documentary or something about McCain and the vietnam vets, and what they have against him. I recall the issues were, his injuries werent extensive enough and he survived the prison camps. That he informed the interrogators to avoid torture etc. Then you had military people saying how getting shot down over Vietnam and surviving POW camp doesnt make you an expert commander in chief, or commander at all. He had little or no experience in military command.

Nonetheless, I would expect christians to not have voted at all seeing as there was no candidate fundamentilist enough for most it would seem. Besides, whats the voting for Obama going to do so badly? Improve relations with Europe, middle east (egypt), Russia...such a bad thing?
Compared to the previous, the man is more of a man of peace, thank goodness for that. The bigger picture is so much bigger than the two issues of abortion and homosexuality, yet unfortunately that is the best that narrow-minded Christian fundamentlists can come up with.

Not sure why you downplay the importance of murder and homosexuality, the bible certainly doesnt. While surely there are other issues these would be considered "biggies" by most Christians, so if that makes us "narrow-minded Christian fundamentalists" so be it.

 

[Grimaldus]

Well, there certainly are other issues but to a Christian, morality should be first and foremost. The documentary you saw sounds different from the ones they played here and international relations? Just ask any Israeli how they feel about Obama right now, it's not good. By the way, his approval ratings have sunk for a reason. That reason has a lot to do with international affairs not to mention the dozens of promises that he's now having to break. And as far as experience. Less than 200 days as a congressman should not even get you noticed. He's flamboyant and black, and that does get you not only noticed but apparently the job.

The reason his ratings have sunk is because to do somethins is a lot harder than saying you're going to do something. Obama realized this, and said it, I guess people weren't listening.

Do you happen to know WHY most Isrealis distrust the US? Yeah. Not his fault.

The things he promised where the end results, they're not meant to happen all at once, as I stated before he has said it's going to be a hard road ahead, but one he thinks will be accomplished with hard work and bravery.

I wouldn't have voted for him because he is black, just as (I'm sure) you didn't not vote for him just because he's black. That arguement goes both ways, so please let it die here.

 

[Grimaldus]

Not sure why you downplay the importance of murder and homosexuality, the bible certainly doesnt. While surely there are other issues these would be considered "biggies" by most Christians, so if that makes us "narrow-minded Christian fundamentalists" so be it.

I would certainly like to see a political reason why homosexuality is wrong...