-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E
That's not the point to the thread. The point is a connection between Christianity and issues like homosexuality. Christians should vote the bible, (a.k.a. their faith, morals, beliefs) which stands firmly and CLEARLY against homosexuality. If all Christians would have done that, McCain and Obama would have both been watching someone else get elected.
The whole reason my arguement is relevant is because religion (in government) is irelevant. As I stated earlier, when you pass a law EVERYONE has to follow it. Not just those who want to. In other words, you would be using this country to support your own religious agenda and force it on others, which is wrong.
Am I saying everyone has to be gay? No. I'm merely saying we think that people should have the choice to. Listen, I'm sorry if you don't like it, I really am, but frankly who people choose to spend the rest of their lives with is not any of your business, much less deciding that for a nation.
@espresso: Pardon the Pirates of the Carribean qoute but, "That's not good enough!!!!". I mean, say you're an athiest gay (not saying you are or ever will be) and your president walkes onto the poddeum in front of hundreds of cameras and billions of people and says... "You can't get married 'cause god says so." Are you going to say "well, he's got a point." or are you going to be offended down to the core of your being. I'm not even gay and I would be offended deeply.
Am I saying everyone has to be gay? No. I'm merely saying we think that people should have the choice to. Listen, I'm sorry if you don't like it, I really am, but frankly who people choose to spend the rest of their lives with is not any of your business, much less deciding that for a nation.
@espresso: Pardon the Pirates of the Carribean qoute but, "That's not good enough!!!!". I mean, say you're an athiest gay (not saying you are or ever will be) and your president walkes onto the poddeum in front of hundreds of cameras and billions of people and says... "You can't get married 'cause god says so." Are you going to say "well, he's got a point." or are you going to be offended down to the core of your being. I'm not even gay and I would be offended deeply.
E
Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Romans 13:6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing.
1 Timothy 2:2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.
Titus 3:1 Remind the people to be subject to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready to do whatever is good.
1 Peter 2:13-15 13Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, 14or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. 15For it is God's will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men.
Acts 5:29 Peter and the other apostles replied: "We must obey God rather than men!
Acts 17:7 and Jason has welcomed them into his house. They are all defying Caesar's decrees, saying that there is another king, one called Jesus."
Proverbs 8:15 By me kings reign and rulers make laws that are just;
Just to name a few.
Romans 13:6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing.
1 Timothy 2:2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.
Titus 3:1 Remind the people to be subject to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready to do whatever is good.
1 Peter 2:13-15 13Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, 14or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. 15For it is God's will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men.
Acts 5:29 Peter and the other apostles replied: "We must obey God rather than men!
Acts 17:7 and Jason has welcomed them into his house. They are all defying Caesar's decrees, saying that there is another king, one called Jesus."
Proverbs 8:15 By me kings reign and rulers make laws that are just;
Just to name a few.
Because this is not about murder or homosexuality. It's about politics and political parties. No matter who is in government they can't stop your average teenager choosing not to use contraception , fall pregnant, and decide to have an abortion. But if it takes a "christian" or pseudo-Christian man as president to keeps your happy pants on, so be it. Just keep your head in the sand and ignore that the real issue has nothing to do with the government or what the president believes, , and everything to do with how you raise your own children.
E
This thread has become a little more complex than I originally intended. Maybe I'm wrong in wanting to "re-simplify" but the question is, can you call yourself a Christian if you voted for Obama.
Keywords:
Christian, Obama.
I think we need to define the word Christian better than what we've done here and then we need to really talk about Obama and what he supports b/c what he supports is really bad (that's an understatement). Please don't talk about McCain, he has nothing to do with this conversation. Don't question my own Christianity as has happened earlier in the thread. Let's keep it simpler. Mainly b/c I'm not as intelligent as some of your posts. Just kidding (sort of) but I hope you understand.
Keywords:
Christian, Obama.
I think we need to define the word Christian better than what we've done here and then we need to really talk about Obama and what he supports b/c what he supports is really bad (that's an understatement). Please don't talk about McCain, he has nothing to do with this conversation. Don't question my own Christianity as has happened earlier in the thread. Let's keep it simpler. Mainly b/c I'm not as intelligent as some of your posts. Just kidding (sort of) but I hope you understand.
E
Uh...please remind me where I said anything even close to stating that government could prevent murder or homosexuality. The fact that govenment isnt reponsible for our personal choices does not make it right for a Christian to vote a person into the office of President who takes a stand against God. As another person wrote here, we will be held accountible for our actions one day.
Your statements basically say that it doesnt matter what the president believes since individuals make their own choices but this person dictates policies that effect everyone so it does matter. Example: Obama has passed legislation making our tax dollars go to organizations that provide abortions and to provide benefits to homosexual partners. Ok, so now Christians have to fund baby murder and homosexuality with their tax dollars. His decisions do effect all of us so it does matter who we put in that office. A president is very influential in many other ways as well so would we rather have a Godly influence or an unGodly one?
And please do tell me which comments I made that make you say my "head is in the sand". Is it because I reject voting for a pro abortion and pro homosexuality president? And please do enlighten all of us as to what the "real issues" are as you state above. Since Godly values arent the issues, I am curious what they are.
Interesting to have to defend Christian values and principles with other professing Christians on a Christian Chat board. Who would have thunk?
Your statements basically say that it doesnt matter what the president believes since individuals make their own choices but this person dictates policies that effect everyone so it does matter. Example: Obama has passed legislation making our tax dollars go to organizations that provide abortions and to provide benefits to homosexual partners. Ok, so now Christians have to fund baby murder and homosexuality with their tax dollars. His decisions do effect all of us so it does matter who we put in that office. A president is very influential in many other ways as well so would we rather have a Godly influence or an unGodly one?
And please do tell me which comments I made that make you say my "head is in the sand". Is it because I reject voting for a pro abortion and pro homosexuality president? And please do enlighten all of us as to what the "real issues" are as you state above. Since Godly values arent the issues, I am curious what they are.
Interesting to have to defend Christian values and principles with other professing Christians on a Christian Chat board. Who would have thunk?
M
I was going to ask the same question,didn't know how it would be taken.I am an independent,I have no ties to any party.I try and vote for the person most like myself.
Alot of people call themselves Christians but do things that are not Christian-like.Obama said during the primaries he was Christian,now he talks of his Muslim roots.During an interview he joked the Bible,saying Christians wanted government ran like the Bible says to.He then pulled out selected verses,like stoning and other practices of that day.He said the Sermon On The Mount was so radical his own cabinet members would fail.
I think where Christians have failed,myself included is we have allowed people to hold office that do not have our same set of values.It is our responsibility to see the fruits of someone,they don't lie.Until we start doing this our country will continue it's dangerous turning away from God.
Alot of people call themselves Christians but do things that are not Christian-like.Obama said during the primaries he was Christian,now he talks of his Muslim roots.During an interview he joked the Bible,saying Christians wanted government ran like the Bible says to.He then pulled out selected verses,like stoning and other practices of that day.He said the Sermon On The Mount was so radical his own cabinet members would fail.
I think where Christians have failed,myself included is we have allowed people to hold office that do not have our same set of values.It is our responsibility to see the fruits of someone,they don't lie.Until we start doing this our country will continue it's dangerous turning away from God.
C
Okay, I definitely see what you're saying and I agree. My grandmother was a born again Catholic and my parents always wished she'd leave the church but I think she was just set in her ways. I agree that the Catholic church is border line blasphemous.
I agree as well that people who voted for Obama should know what they're voting for and should also have to see what partial birth abortion looks like.
Anyway, back on topic before I start rambling
I see what you're saying about lukewarm Christians and having a stiff neck towards compromise. I think in some cases some of the lukewarm Christians are just so misguided and we need to rebuke the sins and pray for them. That was really all I was driving at anyway so it seems like we're on the same page. But if they know the truth and still go on their way sinning, then we can confidently say that they are not Christians because Jesus did say to turn away from evil and to repent.
Okay, now my head hurts
I agree as well that people who voted for Obama should know what they're voting for and should also have to see what partial birth abortion looks like.
Anyway, back on topic before I start rambling
I see what you're saying about lukewarm Christians and having a stiff neck towards compromise. I think in some cases some of the lukewarm Christians are just so misguided and we need to rebuke the sins and pray for them. That was really all I was driving at anyway so it seems like we're on the same page. But if they know the truth and still go on their way sinning, then we can confidently say that they are not Christians because Jesus did say to turn away from evil and to repent. Okay, now my head hurts
Aren't you questioning others christianity?
As I stated in my previous posts, it would be bad as a human to vote based on your personal beliefs. I really think being a good human is more important than faith (or the lack of it).
I'm not very good at high speed conversation either, but you're taking out important factors.
As I stated in my previous posts, it would be bad as a human to vote based on your personal beliefs. I really think being a good human is more important than faith (or the lack of it).
I'm not very good at high speed conversation either, but you're taking out important factors.
E
Well I sort of am questioning the Christianity of those that support someone who stands so firmly against the principles of God. But, to judge ultimately lies in the hands of God, although I think the bible gives some power when it comes to correcting people, which can get confusing. If we voted by our personal beliefs, chances are we are living by out personal beliefs. I for one think that a Christian can be misinformed or deceived. I keep referring to T.D. Jakes as a staunch supporter of Obama and his policies, which are blasphemous.
I think it's already been well established that WHOEVER you vote for will be against Godly values on SOMETHING. Is God going to hold people accountable for voting in Pres. Bush which led to the death of thousands of innocents in Iraq or elsewhere? Don't think you can hold the high moral ground just because you voted for a guy who is against gay marriage and abortion. There are so many more important and bigger issues you know? And looking only towards the President and who Christians voted for, who is just one man in a country of millions, as a basis on which to judge another's Christianity, is short-sighted in my opinion.
In any government, the President's voice is not the ONLY voice in government on policy making decisions. Our Prime Minister appears to be a committed Christian, probably one of the most we've ever had. But his party on the other hand, the majority is not...
The gay lobby groups will keep coming and coming as will the pro-choice activists. Who your Mrs Joe Christian votes for at election is not going to matter zilch. The real influence that Christians have in governments is via pro-life and anti-gay Christian or family value lobby groups and getting the ear of the government. That is how Australia was able to pass anti-gay marriage laws back in 2004 I think it was. Simply drown out the voice of the gay lobby group. Gays are small in number but have a big voice. Christians outnumber them, use that number to the advantage. Play them at their own game. And stop this silly talk about who ever votes for who is or isn't a Christian nonsense.
Although I understand the argument from the point of view of the tax-dollar as you stated, I am sure the average Christian's tax dollar has gone to MANY other ungodly things such as the death of innocent civilians due to US-led military conflicts. So you can't stand on your soap box waving your Christian banner of "anti-gay and anti-abortion" when the bombs your tax dollar has already bought has probably already led to the death of at least one innocent civilian in an overseas US-led war. There really is no basis for anyone to take the high-moral ground , much less to somehow suggest that Christians who did vote for Obama are somehow less Christian than your narrow-minded view of what a Christian should be.
My point was, all you seem to think about is abortion and homosexuality. There are bigger issues. The state of the churches, the mega-churches, tax-evasion and fraud, child abuse, lack of family values in the homes and churches, sexual promiscuity within bible colleges and youth groups. If you're one of those banner waving , picket fence type christians with "abortion" and "gays" as a mantra, I suggest opening your eyes and seeing the bigger picture for a change. The gay and abortion debate is out-dated, over-used, un-original, and uninspiring.
In any government, the President's voice is not the ONLY voice in government on policy making decisions. Our Prime Minister appears to be a committed Christian, probably one of the most we've ever had. But his party on the other hand, the majority is not...
The gay lobby groups will keep coming and coming as will the pro-choice activists. Who your Mrs Joe Christian votes for at election is not going to matter zilch. The real influence that Christians have in governments is via pro-life and anti-gay Christian or family value lobby groups and getting the ear of the government. That is how Australia was able to pass anti-gay marriage laws back in 2004 I think it was. Simply drown out the voice of the gay lobby group. Gays are small in number but have a big voice. Christians outnumber them, use that number to the advantage. Play them at their own game. And stop this silly talk about who ever votes for who is or isn't a Christian nonsense.
Although I understand the argument from the point of view of the tax-dollar as you stated, I am sure the average Christian's tax dollar has gone to MANY other ungodly things such as the death of innocent civilians due to US-led military conflicts. So you can't stand on your soap box waving your Christian banner of "anti-gay and anti-abortion" when the bombs your tax dollar has already bought has probably already led to the death of at least one innocent civilian in an overseas US-led war. There really is no basis for anyone to take the high-moral ground , much less to somehow suggest that Christians who did vote for Obama are somehow less Christian than your narrow-minded view of what a Christian should be.
My point was, all you seem to think about is abortion and homosexuality. There are bigger issues. The state of the churches, the mega-churches, tax-evasion and fraud, child abuse, lack of family values in the homes and churches, sexual promiscuity within bible colleges and youth groups. If you're one of those banner waving , picket fence type christians with "abortion" and "gays" as a mantra, I suggest opening your eyes and seeing the bigger picture for a change. The gay and abortion debate is out-dated, over-used, un-original, and uninspiring.
Last edited:
N
How sad!
People, don't you get it? You do not earn your redemption, you are saved freely by the blood of Jesus. You BELIEVE in Jesus and LET HIM INTO your heart. He will make it all happen for you.
.
.
.
As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. "Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good-except God alone."
.
.
.
There is no big sin, small sin. We are all sinners, period!
Jesus wants us to go to heaven with him. He never wanted to build heaven on earth. Neither our wisdom, nor our good behavior, our heterosexuality, our protestantism, our baptistism, our catholicism, our conservatism, our republicanism, our W'ism or Reaganism, our race (or racism!), or anything we read and write is going to give us life with the heavenly father. It is our meekness, our love and believe in Jesus that will take us close to God. And we are saved by His mercy and not by our goodness!
Sorry if I hurt your feelings. You guys are way too off!
Bye!
People, don't you get it? You do not earn your redemption, you are saved freely by the blood of Jesus. You BELIEVE in Jesus and LET HIM INTO your heart. He will make it all happen for you.
.
.
.
As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. "Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good-except God alone."
.
.
.
There is no big sin, small sin. We are all sinners, period!
Jesus wants us to go to heaven with him. He never wanted to build heaven on earth. Neither our wisdom, nor our good behavior, our heterosexuality, our protestantism, our baptistism, our catholicism, our conservatism, our republicanism, our W'ism or Reaganism, our race (or racism!), or anything we read and write is going to give us life with the heavenly father. It is our meekness, our love and believe in Jesus that will take us close to God. And we are saved by His mercy and not by our goodness!
Sorry if I hurt your feelings. You guys are way too off!
Bye!
E
Im tired of debating with you Mahogany Snail and this is the last time I respond to your nonsense. In the other forum you tell people not to tithe, here you tell people that its ok to vote for someone who is against God and that it doesnt matter. You can defend sin and twist my words all you like but I still think that Christians should not vote for anyone who is so openly against God, period. Is it possible to vote for someone who is sinless, no, but I sure as heck wont vote for someone who is so clearly against God. Of course there are other important issues as well. I never said there wasnt. I simply mentioned abortion and homosexuality because Obama is so proactive with both. While you say that the "gay and abortion debate is out dated, overused, unoriginal, and uninspiring", I guess our Lord didnt share your same viewpoint since he mentions these same two topics MANY times in the bible. It appears He thought these topics were a bit more important than you do.
G
Well my view of this is I don't think either one of these men are moral correct according to their political platform. But I just get mad at how people vote for someone just to vote. Not being racist or nothing but if you go out on the streets and ask many voters why they voted for Obama they can't give you a answer. I was watching on Hannity on Fox News one evening and they did just that. And 75 % of the answers were because they just liked him and they asked the people about his platform they couldn't tell you!!! Thats just was blows my mind. Yes, I did vote for Obama and I am a strong Christian and I don't think it makes me a worse Christian for voting for Obama. Another thing we can talk all we want about whose president but the truth is the USA is falliing quicker than quick sand. And even if McCain is in there we would still fall. And I give you a reason. We as Americans are not following our Lord Jesus Christ correctly. I think it starts with us Christians we let it happen. We let this destruction of this country happen. This nation is one under God but how are we one under God. Look out on the streets gangs killings...drugs...drunks...i mean how can we be a Christian nation when we let these things happen. We are kind of like Isreal we have high places that we put before God we do not follow his path/plan. That is why we as Christians need to take a stand for America. It starts with us and then electing an official who is a Godly man. I was so heartbroken when I heard about Mark Sanford he all his terms has stood for God but he is human he makes mistakes. But this is all apart of God's Plan and we just have to go with him.
Originally Posted by watchmen
Actually James tells us we can see what is in a mans heart and if they truly have faith in God or not by the way they act.
James 2
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Actually James tells us we can see what is in a mans heart and if they truly have faith in God or not by the way they act.
James 2
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.