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J
my CHRISTIAN CHURCH ATTENDING WIFE has SPIT in my face, punched me several times in front of the children, cursed at me, ranout of the marriage out of anger and stayed with her mother, lied and slandered me on fb, tried to run me over for not filling her gas tank and ting hewas dispectful, destroyed three of my computers and a ton of oe hings. ive never hit h. but would i be in sin smacked her????? no. say what u want.
R
This is why children should be disciplined.
You guys are using examples of FULLY GROWN ADULT women acting like spoiled babies...a trait their daddy's shoulda beat out of them years ago.
But it was something you must've been aware of if you chose to marry her.
So why are men marrying spoiled little babies that don't know how to act like grown ups? I agree with the earlier threads that said some women are just emotional wrecks and don't know how to behave. But again....why would you marry such a woman?
The question of the thread is do you think domestic discipline is useful in a godly marriage.
Not only is it not useful, I don't think it's even necessary if the marriage is truly a godly one between two mature Christians.
You guys are using examples of FULLY GROWN ADULT women acting like spoiled babies...a trait their daddy's shoulda beat out of them years ago.
But it was something you must've been aware of if you chose to marry her.
So why are men marrying spoiled little babies that don't know how to act like grown ups? I agree with the earlier threads that said some women are just emotional wrecks and don't know how to behave. But again....why would you marry such a woman?
The question of the thread is do you think domestic discipline is useful in a godly marriage.
Not only is it not useful, I don't think it's even necessary if the marriage is truly a godly one between two mature Christians.
P
Ok here is my take on this domestic discipline of wives:
Lets be clear hear here - a wife is not in the same position as a child, but that does not mean she is in the same position as her husband either(while in her humanity and her soul she is equal) she is not equal physically or in her God given role.
Most people are familiar with passages that command a woman to submit to her husband:
Ephesians 5:22
Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord.
Ephesians 5:24
Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
Colossians 3:18
Wives, submit yourselves to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.
1 Peter 3:1
Wives, in the same way submit yourselves to your own husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives,
But what many Christians(whether men or women) are not familiar with are these passages:
1 Peter 3:5&6
For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to adorn themselves. They submitted themselves to their own husbands, like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her lord[KJV renders this as Master]. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.
Titus 2:3-5
3 Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. 4 Then they can urge the younger women to love their husbands and children, 5 to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.
I am not a KJV only person by any stretch and I use the NASB and NIV and other newer translations in my studies. However this is one of those few cases where I believe the new translations were to trying to soften the blow a bit, to be more politically correct. The King James and even New King James both translate the 'subject' phrase as 'obedient to their own husbands'. Literally a women is only to submit to her husband, she is to obey her husband - I realize this rubs modern women very roughly but this the Word of God.
I say all of the above to say this - if a wife is commanded to submit to, obey and respect her husband what should happen if she does not submit to, obey and respect her husband? Should there not be consequences?
Before I get crucified here - I have never raised my hand to my wife(or ex-wife) for that matter, nor am I dominaring man who treats his wife like a doormat - I probably error more on the other side of being too soft sometimes.
I also realize there some really abusive men out there who slap their wives around and treat them like dirt(a clear violation of scripture - she is be treasured and we are to be considerate of our wives as the weaker vessel).
However as some have already pointed out on this board - are there not "firecracker" women - who are hardnosed, hardhead women. I mean the kind of woman who gets in her husbands face yelling and screaming at him, being disprespectful and disobedient to their husbands?
I know how people will say we should handle it in this modern era(and maybe because of abusers and abuse laws we are stuck with this) - they would say the husband should just respond gently and pray for his firecracker out of control wife.
Where in the past if a women got in her husbands face being disrespectful and arrogant - the man would slap her so hard she would forget her name. Society supported that in the same way they supported the spanking of children.
Again the question comes down to - if children can be(and should be biblically) disciplined for being disrespectful and disobedient to their parents - is it such a stretch that a wife might need discipline from her husband for doing the same thing?
Just a thought
Lets be clear hear here - a wife is not in the same position as a child, but that does not mean she is in the same position as her husband either(while in her humanity and her soul she is equal) she is not equal physically or in her God given role.
Most people are familiar with passages that command a woman to submit to her husband:
Ephesians 5:22
Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord.
Ephesians 5:24
Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
Colossians 3:18
Wives, submit yourselves to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.
1 Peter 3:1
Wives, in the same way submit yourselves to your own husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives,
But what many Christians(whether men or women) are not familiar with are these passages:
1 Peter 3:5&6
For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to adorn themselves. They submitted themselves to their own husbands, like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her lord[KJV renders this as Master]. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.
Titus 2:3-5
3 Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. 4 Then they can urge the younger women to love their husbands and children, 5 to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.
I am not a KJV only person by any stretch and I use the NASB and NIV and other newer translations in my studies. However this is one of those few cases where I believe the new translations were to trying to soften the blow a bit, to be more politically correct. The King James and even New King James both translate the 'subject' phrase as 'obedient to their own husbands'. Literally a women is only to submit to her husband, she is to obey her husband - I realize this rubs modern women very roughly but this the Word of God.
I say all of the above to say this - if a wife is commanded to submit to, obey and respect her husband what should happen if she does not submit to, obey and respect her husband? Should there not be consequences?
Before I get crucified here - I have never raised my hand to my wife(or ex-wife) for that matter, nor am I dominaring man who treats his wife like a doormat - I probably error more on the other side of being too soft sometimes.
I also realize there some really abusive men out there who slap their wives around and treat them like dirt(a clear violation of scripture - she is be treasured and we are to be considerate of our wives as the weaker vessel).
However as some have already pointed out on this board - are there not "firecracker" women - who are hardnosed, hardhead women. I mean the kind of woman who gets in her husbands face yelling and screaming at him, being disprespectful and disobedient to their husbands?
I know how people will say we should handle it in this modern era(and maybe because of abusers and abuse laws we are stuck with this) - they would say the husband should just respond gently and pray for his firecracker out of control wife.
Where in the past if a women got in her husbands face being disrespectful and arrogant - the man would slap her so hard she would forget her name. Society supported that in the same way they supported the spanking of children.
Again the question comes down to - if children can be(and should be biblically) disciplined for being disrespectful and disobedient to their parents - is it such a stretch that a wife might need discipline from her husband for doing the same thing?
Just a thought
U
Yes, it is a stretch. A child is not an adult. There is a different psychological factor involved.
Also, i see, like many who take your position, you conveniently stopped scripture where it suits you and chose not to continue...
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body
Oops, looks like you missed a part of the bible. Cause i don't see anything there that suggests its ok to raise your hand against your wife. In fact, if you read the blue, it supports the idea that it would be wrong. Would you hurt yourself physically if you got out of line? No. So if you wouldn't hurt yourself for stepping out of line, then neither should you hurt your wife physically. It says to make her holy through beatings.. oops, no, through the word. Hmm...
Also, i see, like many who take your position, you conveniently stopped scripture where it suits you and chose not to continue...
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body
Oops, looks like you missed a part of the bible. Cause i don't see anything there that suggests its ok to raise your hand against your wife. In fact, if you read the blue, it supports the idea that it would be wrong. Would you hurt yourself physically if you got out of line? No. So if you wouldn't hurt yourself for stepping out of line, then neither should you hurt your wife physically. It says to make her holy through beatings.. oops, no, through the word. Hmm...
P
I actually never said anything about beating a wife under any circumstances...and as I said it is only theorectical as I have never raised my hand to my wife. The exact instance where I thought if might be theorectially allowable is when you get these firecracker women who get in their husbands faces and are directly disprectful and rebellious towards their husband and in this case would it be wrong to give your wife a slap to get her to understand she is way out of line and has forgotten her place.
Let me ask you a question then - does the Bible not speak of self discipline? Loving your wife as your love yourself would not proclude the possibility of discipline - physical or otherwise. My thought is - if the Bible says wife is to submit to and obey her husband - and she blantantly and willfully, refuses ...then what is the punishment?
Our modern society says no punishment..no consequences. And we have men today who are powerless to act...
Even as Christians, while we will never suffer the judgment of hell(because we are eternally saved) - the Bible says the father disciplines us.
1 Corinthians 9:25-27
25 Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26 Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. 27 No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.
The Bible was actually quite liberating when Paul spoke the words he did and when Christ spoke what he did on divorce. I agree we ought to cherish our wives and treat love her and cherish her...but let me ask again - does it mean I do not love my children if I discipline them? That is basically what you are saying about a wife - if a husband disciplines his wife in anyway that means he does not love her?
Do you not understand that authority without the power to discipline is no authority at all? The authority to discipline in my opinion is implied when the authority as head is given to the man and the wife is explicitly told to submit to, obey and respect her husband.
Again this is all theoretical now because of the age we live in.(no wonder we have 50% divorce rates, and women file 70% of divorces in America, and if you look at the reasons they divorce only the vast majority is simply because they have fallen out of love, or are bored, or he does not understand me)
As a society we have removed consequences for our actions and we have reaped what we have sown.
Uncontrolled anger is what leads to spouse violence...
Spitting at one and other is so low, and also a result of uncontrolled anger.
I don't think a marriage should end if violence is used...
I believe that we should forgive those that attack us.
I have seen and felt uncontrolled anger and it is not pleasant, but it can be forgiven.
From a young age I witnessed uncontrolled anger and I believe children should be spared from witnessing violence....
Nothing worse than seeing the look of horror on a child's face....
Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah will comfort and guide us all in our journey home.
Spitting at one and other is so low, and also a result of uncontrolled anger.
I don't think a marriage should end if violence is used...
I believe that we should forgive those that attack us.
I have seen and felt uncontrolled anger and it is not pleasant, but it can be forgiven.
From a young age I witnessed uncontrolled anger and I believe children should be spared from witnessing violence....
Nothing worse than seeing the look of horror on a child's face....
Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah will comfort and guide us all in our journey home.
P
Yes the smacking your wife is definitely debatable...but your child?
Proverbs 23:12-1413 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.
Looks like God gives parents clear and unmistakable authority for corporal punishment.
Proverbs 13:24
24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.
My older children I don't have to physically discipline anymore - because I took care of it when they were little, aside from a couple times I have had to smack my teenage son who got in my face disrespecting me...he did'nt do it again.
And no he is not running in fear of me, and we have a great relationship...he still gets mouthy(as all teens do) but he knows better than to get in my face.
Again just because we think a certain thing is so in our modern society...does not mean God agrees with it.
U
pzs .. let me guess .. its ok for husbands to smack their wives around in the name of 'discipline' but never ok for the wife to smack the husband around? Or anyone else? Maybe next time you need discipline go ask your pastor to beat the crap out of you. See if you still have the same feelings on 'discipline'.
NO... There is no reason for putting violent hands on another person. Why stop with correcting your wife with physical abuse?
How about correcting your children, your sister, your mother, your aunt, your grandmother, your grandfather, your father,
your brother, unless of course, hes bigger and meaner than you.
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; Ephesians 5:25
So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. Ephesians 5:27-29
Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself;
and the wife see that she reverence her husband. Ephesians 5:33
How about correcting your children, your sister, your mother, your aunt, your grandmother, your grandfather, your father,
your brother, unless of course, hes bigger and meaner than you.
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; Ephesians 5:25
So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. Ephesians 5:27-29
Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself;
and the wife see that she reverence her husband. Ephesians 5:33