Forty years (or so) of feminism. Has it changed the way woman view themselves? Has...
- Thread starter JosephsDreams
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I am not entirely convinced that feminism (or some schools within the movement) are incompatible with biblical teaching. In fact, many proto-feminists such as Anne Hutchinson, Elizabeth Cady Stanton (foundress of the women's suffrage movement), Angelina Grimké (authoress of "Appeal to the Christian Women of the South" which may possibly be the greatest writing by any Christian women), and others were Christian who used the Bible to justify their social, political, and religious views. This was also true of Hannah Solomon and other early Jewish feminists.
While I have supported certain feminist causes such as lobbying in the past for Title IX, I am not afraid of criticizing feminists for certain inconsistent applications of their principles.
You are correct that a great many problems exist because of patriarchy/misogyny. But there are many caused by society's submissiveness to certain aspects of feminist social agitation and its willingness to use existing prejudices to impose depredations upon minorities such as the "wilding" case which was exploited by racist Rush Limbaugh. When the four innocent Black men were later exonerated neither Limbaugh nor the feminists who said Black men were all out to rape White women never publicly apologized for their cruel comments about Black men.
Feminism is emphatically NOT the problem. Society's naivety and stereotyping is often the problem. And let us always include Isaiah 45:7 in the argument so that we all really know what is going on.
I did not invent the inclusion of the word "all". See,
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.
Black women are the head of 29% of all black households which is more than twice the rate for "all women" at 13% . According to census data, the African American community is matriarchal. However, that's only one facet of the African-American community. In many ways, African American culture is very misogynistic.
Hip hop, a music genre that originated within the African American community, is mainstream and a top-selling music genre, and it's very misogynistic. While many people in and outside of the African American community would agree that the African American community is matriarchal (according to census data), many African Americans would also agree that it's a very misogynistic culture too. Misogyny is a derivative and result of patriarchy.
Taking Back the Music -- CBN.com Black History Section
Google: misogyny in hip-hop culture on Wikipedia
That's a good overviewon wikipedia. The link is sluggish for some reason, so I couldn't add it. but I read it earlier.
Black women at greater risk of becoming victims of homicidal domestic violence | Dallas Morning News
Given the fact that black women are more likely to die as a result of domestic violence, that does not suggest or cereal matriarchal.
This is where you are wrong. Patriarchy has to do with fathers or father figures being in charge, not with hating women. Feminist philosophy associates the two together. Christianity does not. God is the Father, and He rules all, so His creation is patriarchal. But that doesn't mean He hates all women.
L
I totally agree and had the same discussion with my 15 year old about how the entire family dynamic changed because of this. Kids are now being raised by tv or someone else. Values are less likely to be instilled. I am a working mom but recently went to part time to homeschool my boys. Now, about to be a single mom again, I still plan to homeschool them and only work 30 hours at most. It is going to be difficult but this is how strongly convicted I feel about it.
Proverbs laments Wicked rulers ruling the people:
Like a roaring lion or a charging bear is a wicked ruler over a poor people. Proverbs 28:15
When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice, but when the wicked bear rule the people mourn. Proverbs 29:2
Throughout history there have been plenty of wicked men ruling (in charge) over people. There are plenty examples of wicked men ruling the people in the Old Testament when patriarchal government was the norm.
God promised King Jeroboam, the son of Nebat, a secure kingdom and a long lasting dynasty if he would trust the LORD, but Jeroboam didn't believe God would deliver on his promise. In order to achieve security, he abolished the national worship of the LORD and inaugurated the golden calf cult. Sexual immorality had long been part of calf worship. Jeroboam led the children of Israel into sin against God (1 Ki 11:25 - 14:20; 2 Ch 10:1 - 13:20).
Jeroboam became the prototype of an evil king. Several kings who ruled after him followed his example and continued to lead the children of Israel into sin:
Jeroboam's son Nadab became king over Israel during the second year of the reign of King Asa over Judah. He reigned over Israel for two years, practicing what the LORD considered to be evil, living the way his father did, committing sins, and leading Israel to sin (1 Ki 15:25-26).
Later, a message came from the LORD to Hanani's son Jehu. It was directed to rebuke Baasha, and this is what it said: I raised you from the dirt to become Commander-in-Chief over my people Israel, but you've been living like Jeroboam, you've been leading my people Israel into sin, and you've been provoking me to anger with their sins (1 Ki 16:2).
When Zimri observed that the city had been captured, he retreated into the king's palace, set fire to the citadel, and died when the palace burned down around him because of the sins that he committed by doing what the LORD considered to be evil, living like Jeroboam did, and sinning so as to lead Israel into sin (1 Kings 16:18).
Omri practiced what the LORD considered to be evil, doing far more evil than anyone who had reigned before him. He lived just like Nebat's son Jeroboam, and by his sin he led Israel into sin, provoking the LORD God of Israel with their idolatry (1 Ki 16:25).
Ahab asked Elijah, "So you've found me, my enemy?" Elijah answered, "I found you. Because you sold yourself to do what the LORD considers evil. 21So I am going to bring evil on you. I will destroy your descendants. I will destroy every male in Ahab's [house], whether slave or freeman in Israel. 22 I will make your family like the family of Jeroboam (Nebat's son) and like the house of Baasha, son of Ahijah, because you made me furious. You led Israel to sin." (1 Ki 21:20-22)
Ahab's son Ahaziah became king over Israel in Samaria in the seventeenth year of King Jehoshaphat of Judah. He reigned for two years over Israel. He practiced what the Lord considered to be evil by living life like his father and mother did. He lived like Nebat's son Jeroboam, who led Israel into sin (1 Ki 22:51).
Jehoahaz son of Jehu began to rule over Israel in the twenty-third year of King Joash’s reign in Judah. He reigned in Samaria seventeen years. 2 But he did what was evil in the LORD’s sight. He followed the example of Jeroboam son of Nebat, continuing the sins that Jeroboam had led Israel to commit. 3 So the LORD was very angry with Israel, and he allowed King Hazael of Aram and his son Ben-hadad to defeat them repeatedly (2 Ki 13:1-3).
Jehoash son of Jehoahaz began to rule over Israel in the thirty-seventh year of King Joash’s reign in Judah. He reigned in Samaria sixteen years. 11But he did what was evil in the LORD’s sight. He refused to turn from the sins that Jeroboam son of Nebat had led Israel to commit (2 Ki 13:10-11).
Jeroboam II, the son of Jehoash, began to rule over Israel in the fifteenth year of King Amaziah’s reign in Judah. Jeroboam reigned in Samaria forty-one years. 24He did what was evil in the LORD’s sight. He refused to turn from the sins that Jeroboam son of Nebat had led Israel to commit (2 Ki 14:23-24).
Zechariah son of Jeroboam II began to rule over Israel in the thirty-eighth year of King Uzziah’s reign in Judah. He reigned in Samaria six months. 9 Zechariah did what was evil in the LORD’s sight, as his ancestors had done. He refused to turn from the sins that Jeroboam son of Nebat had led Israel to commit (2 Kings 15:8-9).
Menahem son of Gadi began to rule over Israel in the thirty-ninth year of King Uzziah’s reign in Judah. He reigned in Samaria ten years. 18 But Menahem did what was evil in the LORD’s sight. During his entire reign, he refused to turn from the sins that Jeroboam son of Nebat had led Israel to commit (2 Kings 15:17-18).
Pekahiah son of Menahem began to rule over Israel in the fiftieth year of King Uzziah’s reign in Judah. He reigned in Samaria two years. 24But Pekahiah did what was evil in the LORD’s sight. He refused to turn from the sins that Jeroboam son of Nebat had led Israel to commit (2 Kings 15:23-24).
Pekah son of Remaliah began to rule over Israel in the fifty-second year of King Uzziah’s reign in Judah. He reigned in Samaria twenty years. 28But Pekah did what was evil in the LORD’s sight. He refused to turn from the sins that Jeroboam son of Nebat had led Israel to commit (2 Kings 15:27-28).
God held King Jeroboam and the kings who followed his evil example of leading Israel into sin accountable. However, God also punished the children of Israel for obeying and following those kings into sin by EXILING them:
the people of Israel were exiled to Assyria ... 7 This disaster came upon the people of Israel because they worshiped other gods. They sinned against the LORD their God ... 8 They had followed the practices of the pagan nations the LORD had driven from the land ahead of them, as well as the practices the kings of Israel had introduced (2 Ki 17: 6-8).
When the LORD tore Israel from the house of David, Israel made Jeroboam son of Nebat king. Then Jeroboam led Israel away from following the LORD and caused them to commit great sin. 22 The Israelites persisted in all the sins that Jeroboam committed and did not turn away from them. 23 Finally, the LORD removed Israel from His presence just as He had declared through all His servants the prophets. So Israel has been exiled to Assyria from their homeland until today (2Ki 17:21-23).
Most of the Kings of Israel and/or Judah were Wicked. Only a few served the Lord Faithfully. There were more wicked Kings than faithful Kings. The fact that there were more wicked Kings than faithful King does not buttress patriarchy; it highlights its ineffectiveness. However, you don't hear patriarchy supporters proclaiming, quoting or publicising that God-inspired truth like they proclaim, quote and publicise Isaiah 3:12. They love to cite, proclaim and publicise that Isaiah lamented women ruling over the people, but they rarely, if ever, talk about the wickedness and ineffectiveness that has taken place under male rulership (patriarchy) but then again pots love to call kettles black.
Who were the kings of Israel and Judah?
Proverbs35
You mentioned Isaiah 3:12, but the quote was not included in your post,
Isaiah 3:12
"As for My people, children are their oppressors,
And women rule over them.
O My people! Those who lead you cause you to err,
And destroy the way of your paths.”"
Honestly, when you read that, does this scripture present women ruling over the people in a positive or negative light? Any of us who have read the Bible know that most of the kings of Israel did a bad job of it. There were a few men who ruled righteously and served the Lord. That doesn't prove that patriarchy is bad and that matriarchy or feminism is good.
The scripture I quoted above does fit well with patriarchy, not the best example of it in the Bible, but it is certainly not a feminst or pro-matriarchy verse. Land passing through the male line, men giving their daughters away and being able to cancel wives or daughters vows are all patriarchal laws. God gave Israel plenty of counter-cultural laws. He could have commanded that women be the boss, and He could have given completely egalitarian laws if He had wanted to (and that were His nature, etc.) But that is not the sort of law that God gave the one nation to Whom He gave national laws, laws that are holy, just, and good.
The fact that many of these laws are patriarchal in nature does not mean that God hates women, either. Patriarchy does not equal misogyny.
You mentioned Isaiah 3:12, but the quote was not included in your post,
Isaiah 3:12
"As for My people, children are their oppressors,
And women rule over them.
O My people! Those who lead you cause you to err,
And destroy the way of your paths.”"
Honestly, when you read that, does this scripture present women ruling over the people in a positive or negative light? Any of us who have read the Bible know that most of the kings of Israel did a bad job of it. There were a few men who ruled righteously and served the Lord. That doesn't prove that patriarchy is bad and that matriarchy or feminism is good.
The scripture I quoted above does fit well with patriarchy, not the best example of it in the Bible, but it is certainly not a feminst or pro-matriarchy verse. Land passing through the male line, men giving their daughters away and being able to cancel wives or daughters vows are all patriarchal laws. God gave Israel plenty of counter-cultural laws. He could have commanded that women be the boss, and He could have given completely egalitarian laws if He had wanted to (and that were His nature, etc.) But that is not the sort of law that God gave the one nation to Whom He gave national laws, laws that are holy, just, and good.
The fact that many of these laws are patriarchal in nature does not mean that God hates women, either. Patriarchy does not equal misogyny.
C
Well what is Jeremiah 31:22 talking about???And personally I believe that God created women for a purpose more then being subservient to men. I don't think that a wife should blindly obey her husband in every thing. What if he tells her to rob a bank or something??She'd be a fool to do that.Adam was alone thus God created Woman from Adam's rib. Mind you..woman is God's gift to man because man needed a helpmate. It wasn't the other way around. Frankly some men need to stop hating on women and learn to appreciate this gift from God.