questian for those who want children

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cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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#42
Also consider some of the people in the Bible who started off being born as children:

Seth, Enoch, Noah, Shem, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Levi, Simeon, Judah, etc., Joseph, Moses, Joshua, Samuel, David, Elijah, Elishah, Isaiah, Micah, Jeremiah, Zerubabel, Ezra, Nehemiah, Malachi, John the Baptist, Jesus Christ, the twelve apostles, Paul, Silas, Timothy, Aquilla and Priscilla.

Those are just samples.
So tell me, are these people the rare exceptions or are such people commonplace? You can use the scope of the entire world or keep to the local environment your choice.
 

Hungry

Senior Member
Nov 26, 2012
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#44
Personally at 58 I don't, but my younger wife does and my pastor tells me I should still try to be fruitful and multiply and I can agree with both of them. That's all there is to it for me. I have not had children but I do want my wife to have someone to help take care of her when she is older. I think since I haven't had children there is some unfinished business. I know there is a lot to consider but the bottom line, for me, is the Bible says to be fruitful and multiply and I have not done that but it may still be possible.
If God doesn't allow it, then I tried.
God told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply and populate the earth. The earth is populated. Mission accomplished! People need to realize that everything in the Bible wasn’t spoken to us. The Bible says to stone people who make images and worship them. Does that mean you should do that too? First of all many boys put their mom’s in nursing homes. Daughters generally are the parental care givers. Now I’m not saying this to be hurtful, just honest; Almost all of the dudes I met with older parents are unruly. Older men are too passive. That’s what makes them good grandparents. Take it for what it’s worth. I think you are setting yourself up for heartbreak.
 

Hungry

Senior Member
Nov 26, 2012
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#45
Lol. Neither a Canaanite wife nor husband were Christians, so your example does little to help answer the question that I asked. Kind of a shot in the dark?

The Malachi quote pertains to Israelites, whose inheritance was the land therefore children were an absolute necessity. Christians do not inherit the land, they have a heavenly inheritance, and that quote definitely does not pertain to Christians.

Almost all offspring start off ungodly. And some stay that way. No matter what.
I forgot to add Solomon to the list below.

https://christianchat.com/christian...-those-who-want-children.192827/#post-4286757

The point is, obviously, that even the most godly of men can produce truly wretched children.
Christians do inherit the land. When Christ returns with His Bride (us), we share in His inheritance, Earth.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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#46
Christians do inherit the land. When Christ returns with His Bride (us), we share in His inheritance, Earth.
Inheriting the land, meaning in the practical sense: tilling the land producing crops, having children the old-fashioned way, Eating sleeping and marrying etc etc. Furthermore those inheriting the land per se do not have access to the heavenly realms.

Christians are managing Christ's redeemed earth, and yes they inherit all things but this goes far beyond the scope of merely the earth.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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#47
So tell me, are these people the rare exceptions or are such people commonplace? You can use the scope of the entire world or keep to the local environment your choice.
Do you fellowship with saints of God? Have you known any godly people in your lifetime?

What does the Bible say about children? Here are some examples.

Doesn't it sound like children are a blessing rather than a curse?

3 Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.4 As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth.5 Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate. (Psalm 127:2-5)

And if you fear they may veer off the right path, there is this also.

Train up a child in the way he should go; even when he is old he will not depart from it. (Proverbs 22:6)

He maketh the barren woman to keep house, and to be a joyful mother of children. Praise ye the LORD. (Psalm 113:8)>
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
8,199
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#48
Do you fellowship with saints of God? Have you known any godly people in your lifetime?

What does the Bible say about children? Here are some examples.

Doesn't it sound like children are a blessing rather than a curse?

3 Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.4 As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth.5 Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate. (Psalm 127:2-5)

And if you fear they may veer off the right path, there is this also.

Train up a child in the way he should go; even when he is old he will not depart from it. (Proverbs 22:6)

He maketh the barren woman to keep house, and to be a joyful mother of children. Praise ye the LORD. (Psalm 113:8)>
Look man, I provided plenty of examples that illustrates that godly men have rotten wreched children. And it is clear that the vast majority of the human race are not saved ie the flood, and there are plenty of New Testament testimonies of same.

But beyond all of that, I just don't want to see my children suffer. At all. Not even a little bit. No murderous dictators no plagues no cancer no nothing.

And I was a little kid once and for pity's sake I really put my parents through hell. And there are kids that are far far worse than I ever was. And I hated my youth I just hated it. A young person is constantly bombarded by sin sin sin and temptation to sin. Really it's ridiculous. Just turn on the TV and you will see an endless stream of carnal and/or satanic insanity 24/7 nonstop.

I am at the point now where I can barely stand watching and animal suffer in a cage doomed to live a life of misery, be exploited then die.

Nope I'm done. We don't have kids and I'm glad I never did have them.
And I have never heard parents ask themselves whether or not the child wants them!
You know.......... whether they're good enough or rich enough or smart enough or whether they're born in the right country etc etc. I mean who wants to be born in Saudi Arabia or Egypt or Yemen or Syria or Iraq or Iran or North Korea or China or India? Three quarters at least of the world is an absolute hellhole. I would never have children if I lived in those countries that's absolutely a fact.

Sure parents like to dote on and cuddle their kids. But I have never heard any parent with the slightest inclination to warning children of the horrors that await them.

Interestingly the Bible does warn people of the horrors that await them! It certainly did for Israel.
 
Jun 12, 2020
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#49
You are overstating your case. Paul says it is better to marry than to burn. Your translation might have added 'with passion' in the italics, but that is an interpretation on the translators part. Desiring marriage is not sinful. Paul also acknowledges that both the long-term celibate path and the married path are charismata when he says every man hath received his proper gift from God, one after this manner and another after that (I Corinthians 7:7). While marriage is helpful for preventing fornication, it is also grace from God to marry. Some people are gifted to marry. Some are gifted to remain celibate. Just like other gifts, we should not think less of certain Christians for having one gift or the other. If there were no married Christians, the number of Christians might shrink rather quickly.

The medeival Roman Catholic pressure to be celibate may have been excessive, and the modern Protestant tendency to have almost no room for the idea of life-long celibacy is going to far, also.

Paul was fruitful by winning people to Christ. He had many children in the faith.




Christ is an example of both celibacy and of being a groom. He lived celibate on the earth, but a bride is being prepared for the Son.






The modern church wedding ceremony where a religious official pronounces a couple married just is not in scripture at all. Revelation does speak of the marriage supper of the Lamb. Weddings in Biblical times often involved a man paying a bride price for a virgin then later coming to get her and throwing a party, then taking her into his tent or house to be his wife.

Jesus did mentioned celibacy, I believe, when he said there are some who are have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake.
God told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply and populate the earth. The earth is populated. Mission accomplished! People need to realize that everything in the Bible wasn’t spoken to us. The Bible says to stone people who make images and worship them. Does that mean you should do that too? First of all many boys put their mom’s in nursing homes. Daughters generally are the parental care givers. Now I’m not saying this to be hurtful, just honest; Almost all of the dudes I met with older parents are unruly. Older men are too passive. That’s what makes them good grandparents. Take it for what it’s worth. I think you are setting yourself up for heartbreak.
That command is for married couples as a responsibility for them, it isn't affected by another couple having ten children (I've knownof several couples with that many). The Bible is clear. Get married, then have children.
 

Hungry

Senior Member
Nov 26, 2012
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866
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#50
Look man, I provided plenty of examples that illustrates that godly men have rotten wreched children. And it is clear that the vast majority of the human race are not saved ie the flood, and there are plenty of New Testament testimonies of same.

But beyond all of that, I just don't want to see my children suffer. At all. Not even a little bit. No murderous dictators no plagues no cancer no nothing.

And I was a little kid once and for pity's sake I really put my parents through hell. And there are kids that are far far worse than I ever was. And I hated my youth I just hated it. A young person is constantly bombarded by sin sin sin and temptation to sin. Really it's ridiculous. Just turn on the TV and you will see an endless stream of carnal and/or satanic insanity 24/7 nonstop.

I am at the point now where I can barely stand watching and animal suffer in a cage doomed to live a life of misery, be exploited then die.

Nope I'm done. We don't have kids and I'm glad I never did have them.
And I have never heard parents ask themselves whether or not the child wants them!
You know.......... whether they're good enough or rich enough or smart enough or whether they're born in the right country etc etc. I mean who wants to be born in Saudi Arabia or Egypt or Yemen or Syria or Iraq or Iran or North Korea or China or India? Three quarters at least of the world is an absolute hellhole. I would never have children if I lived in those countries that's absolutely a fact.

Sure parents like to dote on and cuddle their kids. But I have never heard any parent with the slightest inclination to warning children of the horrors that await them.

Interestingly the Bible does warn people of the horrors that await them! It certainly did for Israel.
I agree that having children is inviting heartbreak into your life. Not only does it cause “problems” to be a parent, but it is a load of responsibility. Also you basically add another sinner into the world who you pray will not choose the broad path. That being said, four times I tempted fate to bereave me with the heartbreak of parenthood. Four times it has failed. My children enjoy church and love to ask questions about the Lord. I candy coated nothing and they understand that one day they may face oppression and death for their faith. I am continually surprised at their love for one another, their friends and strangers. We always enjoy each others company and conversation. In the process the Lord has strengthened me and taught me to depend on Him for wisdom and providence.
 

Hungry

Senior Member
Nov 26, 2012
2,716
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#51
That command is for married couples as a responsibility for them, it isn't affected by another couple having ten children (I've knownof several couples with that many). The Bible is clear. Get married, then have children.
That is how you interpret it. It was given to Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. What did God do to most of the people Adam and Eve produced? He drowned them. Regardless, do what you want. I think everyone should pray about what God wants them to do, not do what God told someone else to do.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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#52
That command is for married couples as a responsibility for them, it isn't affected by another couple having ten children (I've knownof several couples with that many). The Bible is clear. Get married, then have children.
Really? And then leave them for the sake of the Kingdom of God?
Here we have a lesson in priorities...
Luke 18
18:28: Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee.
18:29: And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake,
18:30: Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.

This business about making wife and children the top priority in this life for Christians is a fallacy.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
8,199
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#53
I agree that having children is inviting heartbreak into your life. Not only does it cause “problems” to be a parent, but it is a load of responsibility. Also you basically add another sinner into the world who you pray will not choose the broad path. That being said, four times I tempted fate to bereave me with the heartbreak of parenthood. Four times it has failed. My children enjoy church and love to ask questions about the Lord. I candy coated nothing and they understand that one day they may face oppression and death for their faith. I am continually surprised at their love for one another, their friends and strangers. We always enjoy each others company and conversation. In the process the Lord has strengthened me and taught me to depend on Him for wisdom and providence.
Very heartwarming testimony thank you. I'm not taking that path but it is very commendable that you have been so forthright with your children.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#54
That is how you interpret it. It was given to Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. What did God do to most of the people Adam and Eve produced? He drowned them. Regardless, do what you want. I think everyone should pray about what God wants them to do, not do what God told someone else to do.
The command to be fruitful and multiply was also given post-flood to Noah and his sons :)
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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Tennessee
#55
That command is for married couples as a responsibility for them, it isn't affected by another couple having ten children (I've knownof several couples with that many). The Bible is clear. Get married, then have children.
Or get married, and then don't have children if you don't want the responsibility of raising them or can't afford to do so or just otherwise don't care to have any.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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Tennessee
#56
Really? And then leave them for the sake of the Kingdom of God?
Here we have a lesson in priorities...
Luke 18
18:28: Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee.
18:29: And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake,
18:30: Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.

This business about making wife and children the top priority in this life for Christians is a fallacy.
Providing for my family is my top priority. The bible, especially in Proverbs and Psalms takes a dim view of those that shirk their family responsibilities.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
6,495
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#57
Nope I'm done. We don't have kids and I'm glad I never did have them.
And I have never heard parents ask themselves whether or not the child wants them!
You know.......... whether they're good enough or rich enough or smart enough or whether they're born in the right country etc etc. I mean who wants to be born in Saudi Arabia or Egypt or Yemen or Syria or Iraq or Iran or North Korea or China or India? Three quarters at least of the world is an absolute hellhole. I would never have children if I lived in those countries that's absolutely a fact.
Well, maybe the Saudis, the Egyptians, Yemenis, Syrians, Iraqis, Iranians, Koreans, Chinese, or Indians love their countries and are bad to be there. Yemen has been having a tough time, and especially Syria. North Korea sounds dreary, but the other countries probably aren't as miserable as you make them out to be. A lot of Americans think the US is pretty much the only good country in the world with the exception of a few developed countries and vacation islands. I've spent 12 years in Indonesia. There is a lot of pollution, but life there is not so bad as far as life on earth goes. I'd imagine a lot of Indians and Chinese would say the same about their countries. I did not see people lying on the streets in misery, groaning in pain and lamenting that they weren't born in America, when I went to China, either.

I see the Bible presents having children in a positive light. There is a lot of suffering in life, but there is also joy, and part of this whole experience is God preparing a bride for His Son, so it all has a purpose. Maybe you are a glass half empty kind of guy.

I don't know your wife's age or any of those personal details. But if both husband and wife are fertile, no method of birth control is 100% if a couple are having intercourse. And if you don't believe in abortion, there is always the chance. For example, a dozen times with a condom may have a greater chance of producing a child than once without.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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#58
Btw, my wife and I have taught our children to be faithful and have warned them that this might require martyrdom. We have family devotions just about every night. I try to expose them to the 'difficult' scriptures also.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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#59
Providing for my family is my top priority. The bible, especially in Proverbs and Psalms takes a dim view of those that shirk their family responsibilities.
God is top priority. God wants us to provide for our families, too. So I don't see a contradiction in doing both.

But if one goes the celibate route, he doesn't have to worry about providing for family.
 
Jun 12, 2020
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#60
Providing for my family is my top priority. The bible, especially in Proverbs and Psalms takes a dim view of those that shirk their family responsibilities.
I agree tourist, good to see someone sticking up for family and marriage! This makes for the most fuliflling life, unless God is mistaken.