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R
Oh please. We have yet to make any true progress in the determination of how sexuality comes about. At the moment it's pointing more towards hormonal development. It's a murky area... However, what CAN be determined is that sexuality is not a choice.
1.) There is evidence and studies being made that sexuality fluxuates as a life progresses. Those who claim to have went from gay to straight are either (a) an example of this theory or (b) in denial.
2.) Christian psychologists lol
We just want the same rights as heterosexuals have as far as marriage is concerned... and don't give me that "you have the right to marry those of the opposite sex" nonsense.
No, it clearly states that our government is not allowed to create laws that support a religion or its ideals. Jefferson's proposal of the separation of church and state was an interpretation of this part of the US Constitution... an interpretation that is widely followed up until today. Please don't put your own interpretations over that of numerous constitutional scholars'.
How is it extravagant? I would would like to someday marry and settle down with another man... Maybe adopt a kid and start a family. Doesn't seem all that extravagant to me.
In my eyes, truth doesn't exist... and don't quote scripture at me. It won't help you in an argument with someone such as myself.
1.) There is evidence and studies being made that sexuality fluxuates as a life progresses. Those who claim to have went from gay to straight are either (a) an example of this theory or (b) in denial.
2.) Christian psychologists lol
We just want the same rights as heterosexuals have as far as marriage is concerned... and don't give me that "you have the right to marry those of the opposite sex" nonsense.
No, it clearly states that our government is not allowed to create laws that support a religion or its ideals. Jefferson's proposal of the separation of church and state was an interpretation of this part of the US Constitution... an interpretation that is widely followed up until today. Please don't put your own interpretations over that of numerous constitutional scholars'.
How is it extravagant? I would would like to someday marry and settle down with another man... Maybe adopt a kid and start a family. Doesn't seem all that extravagant to me.
In my eyes, truth doesn't exist... and don't quote scripture at me. It won't help you in an argument with someone such as myself.
H
Mate, hate to disagree with you, but I got two things to say to you. 1) Homosexuality is found in 405 speices, and yet homophobia is found in 1 . . . . . 2) A person telling another that being is against their religion is like a person on a diet telling another that their eating a donut is offensive because they are on a diet . . . . just saying. Don't want to start a fight, but I saw the post, and I felt the need to stick up for what I believe in. Hope you don't bash me for sticking up for my believes.
Gah, sorry for the extremely long wait, I never had an email for when you replied to this topic, sorry 
Well, In the King James version, Leviticus 11:10 clearly says that shellfish are an abomination unto you, and homosexuality is also described as an abomination. You can't pick and choose which parts of the Bible you want to respect and other which you don't.
As for homosexuality in the NT, I assume it's 1 Corinthians 6?
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Therefore, homosexuals who are washed in the body of Christ are fine, no? Again, homosexuality is not a worse sin than any other here, such as drunkenness and greediness. If people campaign against homosexuality, they should also campaign against alcoholism. We don't see that. We see people who pick and choose what they want in the bible to support their homophobia or their distaste of LGBTQ people.
Do you think telling people that it's okay not hating themselves and being who they are is encouraging?
Have you ever thought for the longest time people were making the exact same argument for slavery?
There is nothing to show that homosexuality is wrong, except in holy books. Homosexuality is natural.
List of animals displaying homosexual behavior - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You forgot to mention sex for the pleasure of the flesh. And if it's not for making babies (sex with protection, condoms, etc) then what is it for? Sex for the flesh is a sin, which is why the Vatican is so darn opposed to condom use, even though condoms would decrease dramatically the number of people dying of AIDS around the world (especially Africa), and dramatically reduce the amount of unwanted teen pregnancies (thus the amount of abortions) and of sexual disease spread (such as chlamydia, which infects something like 50% of the US population).
Any sexual behavior outside of procreation is a sin. There is no avoiding that.
How do you think extremist/literalist/far left wing christians sound to the rest of the world?
I agree, it's completely wrong. However, your Bible supports such behavior when people want to use it that way, and condemns it when people want to use it the other way. The ONLY way those people can express their feelings without sounding like the homophobic bigots they truly are is through the Bible. These people are RESPECTED and ACCEPTED by their congregations. Such behavior is threatening the lives of LGBTQ people, and it is unacceptable. If christians don't want others pointing the flaws of extremists like them, christians should be the first ones to tell those pastors to shut the heck up.
You can't imagine saying that to anyone. That's perfectly fine with me. Just remember, the Bible allows you to do just that. Some people take it that the Bible demands you to do that. Just because you disagree in no way means they are entirely wrong, just that your morality is different from theirs.
"See...I'd ask Allah about that one. I know I'm a Muslim, I have the Truth in me. And I know that that Christians would not be speaking truth. I know that with you being non-Muslim and not believing in Allah, for you Islam more than likely falls under the same category as Bhuddism and Hinduism. It's all religion. No difference between those religions. Religion is religion. But honestly, Islam is way different. I wish I could explain everything about Islam a lot better. But unfortunately, I can't.
I'm not saying that gays are eternally doomed. Surely their lifestyle won't get them any closer to the Kingdom of Allah, but I'm not sure it'd make them totally doomed."
Do notice you are making zero arguments here. I can flip it around just like that and it makes just as much sense. Muslims have just as much faith and are just as truth-seeking as you are.
I don't say that all religions are identical, they are very different. I'm saying they're all equal when it comes to their religious statements and the amount of evidence to support them. A christian Law holds as much importance in my eyes as a muslim Fatwa. I'm also saying all religions are equal when it comes to morality (Jainism being the exception), and that no religion has moral authority over any other religion (again, except the Jains). People are good, people are bad, people are christian, muslim, hindu, people are not religious. There is no strong correlation factor between religiosity and morality, as one neither precludes nor is necessary for the other.
That's fine by me, if that is the full extent you go to.
Ok, you don't like it, you don't support it. You cannot say that non-religious folk should not support homosexuality for non-religious LGBTQ people.
So no pork, shellfish, and mixed fibers garment?
Seeing as that is your personal opinion, I have nothing against that. I don't agree with you on everything of course but so long as what you post above is limited to yourself, there is no problem with that. However, the thing with sin needing to stop is that for some people, it's literally part of their nature (homosexuality, kleptomania Kleptomania) and telling them to stop is like telling them to stop being right-handed. One needs to recognize that.
I don't even need to cherry pick, I merely need to interpret it to suit my needs like you interpret it to suit yours. I'll just say that while nothing in here is sexual in nature, LGBTQ people also do not only love themselves in a sexual way. They truly deeply love each other, from the heart, not from the genitals, and these verses apply just as much to them as to anyone else.
I didn't mean to take it that way. I thought you were more of an anti-gay person, but I see I was mistaken. I still stand by what I said though, in that Jesus would be sad to see all the misdirected hate and lack of understanding and acceptance directed at LGBTQ people.
Again, sorry for the VERY late reply
Well, In the King James version, Leviticus 11:10 clearly says that shellfish are an abomination unto you, and homosexuality is also described as an abomination. You can't pick and choose which parts of the Bible you want to respect and other which you don't.
As for homosexuality in the NT, I assume it's 1 Corinthians 6?
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Therefore, homosexuals who are washed in the body of Christ are fine, no? Again, homosexuality is not a worse sin than any other here, such as drunkenness and greediness. If people campaign against homosexuality, they should also campaign against alcoholism. We don't see that. We see people who pick and choose what they want in the bible to support their homophobia or their distaste of LGBTQ people.
Do you think telling people that it's okay not hating themselves and being who they are is encouraging?
Have you ever thought for the longest time people were making the exact same argument for slavery?
There is nothing to show that homosexuality is wrong, except in holy books. Homosexuality is natural.
List of animals displaying homosexual behavior - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You forgot to mention sex for the pleasure of the flesh. And if it's not for making babies (sex with protection, condoms, etc) then what is it for? Sex for the flesh is a sin, which is why the Vatican is so darn opposed to condom use, even though condoms would decrease dramatically the number of people dying of AIDS around the world (especially Africa), and dramatically reduce the amount of unwanted teen pregnancies (thus the amount of abortions) and of sexual disease spread (such as chlamydia, which infects something like 50% of the US population).
Any sexual behavior outside of procreation is a sin. There is no avoiding that.
How do you think extremist/literalist/far left wing christians sound to the rest of the world?
I agree, it's completely wrong. However, your Bible supports such behavior when people want to use it that way, and condemns it when people want to use it the other way. The ONLY way those people can express their feelings without sounding like the homophobic bigots they truly are is through the Bible. These people are RESPECTED and ACCEPTED by their congregations. Such behavior is threatening the lives of LGBTQ people, and it is unacceptable. If christians don't want others pointing the flaws of extremists like them, christians should be the first ones to tell those pastors to shut the heck up.
You can't imagine saying that to anyone. That's perfectly fine with me. Just remember, the Bible allows you to do just that. Some people take it that the Bible demands you to do that. Just because you disagree in no way means they are entirely wrong, just that your morality is different from theirs.
"See...I'd ask Allah about that one. I know I'm a Muslim, I have the Truth in me. And I know that that Christians would not be speaking truth. I know that with you being non-Muslim and not believing in Allah, for you Islam more than likely falls under the same category as Bhuddism and Hinduism. It's all religion. No difference between those religions. Religion is religion. But honestly, Islam is way different. I wish I could explain everything about Islam a lot better. But unfortunately, I can't.
I'm not saying that gays are eternally doomed. Surely their lifestyle won't get them any closer to the Kingdom of Allah, but I'm not sure it'd make them totally doomed."
Do notice you are making zero arguments here. I can flip it around just like that and it makes just as much sense. Muslims have just as much faith and are just as truth-seeking as you are.
I don't say that all religions are identical, they are very different. I'm saying they're all equal when it comes to their religious statements and the amount of evidence to support them. A christian Law holds as much importance in my eyes as a muslim Fatwa. I'm also saying all religions are equal when it comes to morality (Jainism being the exception), and that no religion has moral authority over any other religion (again, except the Jains). People are good, people are bad, people are christian, muslim, hindu, people are not religious. There is no strong correlation factor between religiosity and morality, as one neither precludes nor is necessary for the other.
That's fine by me, if that is the full extent you go to.
Ok, you don't like it, you don't support it. You cannot say that non-religious folk should not support homosexuality for non-religious LGBTQ people.
So no pork, shellfish, and mixed fibers garment?
Seeing as that is your personal opinion, I have nothing against that. I don't agree with you on everything of course but so long as what you post above is limited to yourself, there is no problem with that. However, the thing with sin needing to stop is that for some people, it's literally part of their nature (homosexuality, kleptomania Kleptomania) and telling them to stop is like telling them to stop being right-handed. One needs to recognize that.
I don't even need to cherry pick, I merely need to interpret it to suit my needs like you interpret it to suit yours. I'll just say that while nothing in here is sexual in nature, LGBTQ people also do not only love themselves in a sexual way. They truly deeply love each other, from the heart, not from the genitals, and these verses apply just as much to them as to anyone else.
I didn't mean to take it that way. I thought you were more of an anti-gay person, but I see I was mistaken. I still stand by what I said though, in that Jesus would be sad to see all the misdirected hate and lack of understanding and acceptance directed at LGBTQ people.
Again, sorry for the VERY late reply
The first link shows a video in which discrimination against LGBTQ people is shown, and why it is shown to be wrong. I don't think you disagree that a child being discriminated against (can't go to a museum with the class because 'she cannot have two mothers') is wrong, do you? Notice these videos are not telling children that they MUST be homosexual, just that homosexual behaviour is normal and acceptable, and that discrimination against them is not acceptable. Notice also that the titles of both videos are misleading.
I agree with the message in the second link, that people's free speech should not be stopped, but I disagree with the way christians are being portrayed as victims, not when the lives of LGBTQ people hang in the balance, whereas some people simply cannot preach to a crowd who doesn't want to listen. If this is the kind of sermon that would be preached, then I agree that the preachers were escorted off the premises. Put All Gays in Death Camps - YouTube
I haven't really seen pictures of the Home Depot scandal thing, the worst I've seen was just people kissing, and if that were the issue, it shouldn't matter whether they
be homosexual, heterosexual, white, black, christian, muslim, whatever.
I don't really understand the thing with the girl guides. Are you protesting because they are receiving sexual education?
Let me be clear about this, the ABS thing is a protest because christians don't like the way they did their job? Le gasp, it must be incredible to have a biased news source! Have you perhaps thought of how a lot of people see Fox News?
What, immediately after complaining about biased news source, you have the gall to post a website from LifeSiteNews? I'm sorry, this will not do. Not only are there inaccuracies in the page itself (I can point them out if you wish) but the link between pedophilia and legalizing homosexuality is tenuous at best. The thing is that it is a lot easier for an adult to abuse a child than it is for an adult homosexual to abuse another adult homosexual. For the record, I do not agree with the page to the extent that they seem to be suggesting the conference was about legalizing pedophilia. However, I would be inclined to think it is perhaps a distorsion of what was really going on. If there is a sexually active 17 year old person who loves her 19-year old partner, that 19-yearl old can go to jail for pedophilia, and that stigma will follow him/her for the rest of his/her life. I think that needs to be clarified. It is not in any way an endorsment for 30 to 40-odd years old to have sex with preschoolers (which ironically brings to memory all the cases of abuse by pastors on choir boys).
I agree that the angry queer group throwing rock at a church and breaking their windows is a crime. However, I disagree that it is a hate crime, in as much as it is a response to many hate crimes that have been committed against LGBTQ people. I'm not saying it was the good way to deal with it, as hate only breeds more hate. However, there comes a point when a person can't keep quiet and do nothing about it.
These are hate crimes
Kid gets beat up for being gay - YouTube
Pastor Beats Up Own Gay Son in Church - YouTube
Raw Video: Beating of Gay Man Caught on Tape - YouTube
You can come back when you'll have news that mobs of homosexual people beat pastors to death. Until then, don't call your example a hate crime.
For the last example, I think the charges being laid are a bit extreme, but again, I strongly disagree with they way they paint the christians as the victims. If the christians have the freedom of expression to read from the bible and have posters, the gays have the freedom of expression to blow whistles and hold up their own signs. I'd also say that the Westboro Baptist Church has just as much rights to go to funerals to tell what they want to say. There is a fine line between freedom of expression and hate speech, and shouting hateful verses in the Bible to a crowd who have been and continue to be victimized by religious groups and who want to hear nothing from them, comes pretty close to overstepping their rights and freedoms.
Again, I don't agree with the charges themselves, but I don't disagree that they were asked to leave, or face arrest.
That is true and it is your right, just as it is the right of every other citizen to preach to open the hearts of close-minded bigots and challenge the nonsensical laws that are being passed throughout the States. It's not a one-way street. Christians should not get any more privileges than any other non-citizens do, I hope you realize this.
I agree with the message in the second link, that people's free speech should not be stopped, but I disagree with the way christians are being portrayed as victims, not when the lives of LGBTQ people hang in the balance, whereas some people simply cannot preach to a crowd who doesn't want to listen. If this is the kind of sermon that would be preached, then I agree that the preachers were escorted off the premises. Put All Gays in Death Camps - YouTube
I haven't really seen pictures of the Home Depot scandal thing, the worst I've seen was just people kissing, and if that were the issue, it shouldn't matter whether they
be homosexual, heterosexual, white, black, christian, muslim, whatever.
I don't really understand the thing with the girl guides. Are you protesting because they are receiving sexual education?
Let me be clear about this, the ABS thing is a protest because christians don't like the way they did their job? Le gasp, it must be incredible to have a biased news source! Have you perhaps thought of how a lot of people see Fox News?
What, immediately after complaining about biased news source, you have the gall to post a website from LifeSiteNews? I'm sorry, this will not do. Not only are there inaccuracies in the page itself (I can point them out if you wish) but the link between pedophilia and legalizing homosexuality is tenuous at best. The thing is that it is a lot easier for an adult to abuse a child than it is for an adult homosexual to abuse another adult homosexual. For the record, I do not agree with the page to the extent that they seem to be suggesting the conference was about legalizing pedophilia. However, I would be inclined to think it is perhaps a distorsion of what was really going on. If there is a sexually active 17 year old person who loves her 19-year old partner, that 19-yearl old can go to jail for pedophilia, and that stigma will follow him/her for the rest of his/her life. I think that needs to be clarified. It is not in any way an endorsment for 30 to 40-odd years old to have sex with preschoolers (which ironically brings to memory all the cases of abuse by pastors on choir boys).
I agree that the angry queer group throwing rock at a church and breaking their windows is a crime. However, I disagree that it is a hate crime, in as much as it is a response to many hate crimes that have been committed against LGBTQ people. I'm not saying it was the good way to deal with it, as hate only breeds more hate. However, there comes a point when a person can't keep quiet and do nothing about it.
These are hate crimes
Kid gets beat up for being gay - YouTube
Pastor Beats Up Own Gay Son in Church - YouTube
Raw Video: Beating of Gay Man Caught on Tape - YouTube
You can come back when you'll have news that mobs of homosexual people beat pastors to death. Until then, don't call your example a hate crime.
For the last example, I think the charges being laid are a bit extreme, but again, I strongly disagree with they way they paint the christians as the victims. If the christians have the freedom of expression to read from the bible and have posters, the gays have the freedom of expression to blow whistles and hold up their own signs. I'd also say that the Westboro Baptist Church has just as much rights to go to funerals to tell what they want to say. There is a fine line between freedom of expression and hate speech, and shouting hateful verses in the Bible to a crowd who have been and continue to be victimized by religious groups and who want to hear nothing from them, comes pretty close to overstepping their rights and freedoms.
Again, I don't agree with the charges themselves, but I don't disagree that they were asked to leave, or face arrest.
That is true and it is your right, just as it is the right of every other citizen to preach to open the hearts of close-minded bigots and challenge the nonsensical laws that are being passed throughout the States. It's not a one-way street. Christians should not get any more privileges than any other non-citizens do, I hope you realize this.
I think there's a difference between objective truth and subjective truth, and that it is sometimes very hard to tell them apart.
Gravity exists. That is a fact and an objective truth. However, the theory of gravity is subjective, it is as close as we can get to the truth of gravity, but it is still subject to change.
Homosexuality exists. That is a fact and an objective truth. Some choose to look at the bible and declare it an abomination. Some choose to look at the hundreds of other species of animals who exhibit homosexual behavior and declare it natural. These are subjective truths.
Some people go so far as to eclipse the objective truth in favor of a subjective truth that they agree with (the wold being 6,000 years old for example).
Truth is a lot more complicated than many people make it out to be.
Gravity exists. That is a fact and an objective truth. However, the theory of gravity is subjective, it is as close as we can get to the truth of gravity, but it is still subject to change.
Homosexuality exists. That is a fact and an objective truth. Some choose to look at the bible and declare it an abomination. Some choose to look at the hundreds of other species of animals who exhibit homosexual behavior and declare it natural. These are subjective truths.
Some people go so far as to eclipse the objective truth in favor of a subjective truth that they agree with (the wold being 6,000 years old for example).
Truth is a lot more complicated than many people make it out to be.
Urgh enough of this WORD VOMIT. Christians that say they have "no problem with same sex marriage" are guilty of complacency in their Christian walk and add to the deterioration of the GODLESSNESS in our nation. Enjoy the superiority you feel by being "enlightened" and denouncing some of the basic principals of Christianity- I'm sure you'll make the world a better, more secular place.
Seriously-- grow a backbone and call a sin a sin. None of this is making you look "tolerant" it just makes you look like a flim-flamer. THERE I said it.
That said I have no problems with homosexuals, I love them and have friends and family who are gay- but that doesn't excuse them for ANYTHING my God (and gasp, yours too) calls blasphemy. Just like you can love a liar who tells lies, I wont make excuses for them. Why are you?
Seriously-- grow a backbone and call a sin a sin. None of this is making you look "tolerant" it just makes you look like a flim-flamer. THERE I said it.
That said I have no problems with homosexuals, I love them and have friends and family who are gay- but that doesn't excuse them for ANYTHING my God (and gasp, yours too) calls blasphemy. Just like you can love a liar who tells lies, I wont make excuses for them. Why are you?
Dread_Zeppelin1,
Being homophobic is a basic principle of Christianity? Maybe it is in your Christianity but it's not in mine. I seriously doubt God finds fault in two people loving each other. Even if He did, I'm sure God is more concerned about the wars and diseases and poverty than He is same-sex marriage.
Being homophobic is a basic principle of Christianity? Maybe it is in your Christianity but it's not in mine. I seriously doubt God finds fault in two people loving each other. Even if He did, I'm sure God is more concerned about the wars and diseases and poverty than He is same-sex marriage.
S
I dont totally agree with everything in this link but I still thought it made some decent points.
Pro-Homosexual Arguments Examined
Pro-Homosexual Arguments Examined
You are the perfect example of the worst kind of "Christian." (And I spit while I type that word, as you are NOT the word I just typed.) All of the words you just used (except "homophobic") are the exact words that evil evil racists STILL use against blacks in America. It's EXACTLY the same thing. As a non-gay American AND Christian, I can say this. Gay Christians are just as Christian as straight Christians. A true Christian is a true Christian. And any hateful bigot like yourself won't change that.
There is an amazing article about it here, How I Wish the Homosexuality Debate Would Go – Trevin Wax
But also I think that we shouldn't be out trying to stop people being gay.
Why?
Well if they don't belive in God or believe the Bible is God's word then they have no reason to ever see our point of view. An example would be Islam, we don't belive it is true adn therefore we may never understand some of the things they do and not agree with them, as we don't belive a higher authority has decreeed it.
So if there is no reason to them that they are wrong, why would they stop?
And we sin too, all the time, we need to be clear with that, we are not any better than anyone else. We don't have any right to judge them, we should point them to Jesus and try to help them see God is there.
But also I think that we shouldn't be out trying to stop people being gay.
Why?
Well if they don't belive in God or believe the Bible is God's word then they have no reason to ever see our point of view. An example would be Islam, we don't belive it is true adn therefore we may never understand some of the things they do and not agree with them, as we don't belive a higher authority has decreeed it.
So if there is no reason to them that they are wrong, why would they stop?
And we sin too, all the time, we need to be clear with that, we are not any better than anyone else. We don't have any right to judge them, we should point them to Jesus and try to help them see God is there.
H
I think it would be best if we Christians discuss topics like this with love instead of hateful rhetoric. It's better to talk to someone with love than with hate, and I feel too many of us have been doing that. Calling someone an abomination isn't the love that Jesus taught us about. You may not agree with what these people do, but they are still God's children. Dislike what they do, but do not preach hate for them, you're contradicting your beliefs. If you want to stop it, then try to save them with the love God has given you, and show that love to them. You cannot fight sin with hate, it's a trap in itself.