Sexual sin

[Cindy12]

Betrayal is betrayal whether you are a Christian or not. Just because someone does not believe in God does not mean they don't care whether or not their partner is faithful. Such values are not Christian exclusive. I don't understand your lack of understanding on this issue. Being a non believer does not automatically equate to an everything goes attitude.

I totally agree with you! Betrayal is betrayal and hurt is hurt whether you are a Christian or not. That one is a no brainer to me as well. Why would it NOT hurt??

 

[shotgunner]

I think what Molly is saying is that she would be just as hurt by the relationships her husband had before marriage as she would be by a adulterous relationship after marriage. I can sort of see her side of it. After all wasn't that an intimate relationship that your spouse had with someone else?

I think it may be a little naïve to expect a virgin husband or wife but it is what all marriages should be.

 

[hopesprings]

I think what Molly is saying is that she would be just as hurt by the relationships her husband had before marriage as she would be by a adulterous relationship after marriage. I can sort of see her side of it. After all wasn't that an intimate relationship that your spouse had with someone else?

I think it may be a little naïve to expect a virgin husband or wife but it is what all marriages should be.

i get the being a bit hurt that your spouse shared this level of intimacy with someone else...but calling it cheating is a huge stretch imo

 

[Blain]

You know while I do agree sexual sin is bad I can't call it the worst, it's one thing for me if I fall into sexual sin but if I had taken a human life- I would rather I had commited sexual sin 100 times. Also another thing, God made ppl with sexual desires and he would not have done so if there wasn't a good reason. It isn't a sexual sin until that lust causes you to sin by say cheating on your wife and spending hours on porn and such.

 

[soloflight]

why are these behaviors you mention as being sinful, or wrong, ...wrong? just because God said? that is a common response and it is quite vague. of course God is not vague. i dont speak against your post in anyway, im saying that it is incomplete without the consequence or the why of it. not the end of the matter, (romans 6:23/ the wages of sin is death), but what happens to the sinner as a direct consequence of their actions. think on it like telling a child not to play with matches because it could result in a number of most unfavorable results including death. how ever that doesn't make matches or fire wrong, or sinful. the child may have a certain fasination with fire and armed with knowledge educates their self and as an adult becomes a skilled pyro tech.
the bible says that one particular behavior results in the 'sining against his own body.' what does that mean? what is sin?

i have found that my own 'vagueness' when dealing with others on biblical issues is a result of assuming that every one knows what i know. you know?

 

[PoetMary]

People get upset over their spouse being with someone else in marriage but then don't care if it happened before they are married? Why is that?

Basically what I'm getting at is this: Premarital sex IS CHEATING.

Okay....I think it's important to not create ideas of sin that the bible doesn't address.

Premarital sex is NOT cheating. Cheating is called "cheating" because a vow has been made and broken. If there is no vow, there is no breaking of a vow.

To imply that people are bound by a non-vow based on the assumption that a vow might eventually exist is dangerous thinking for a lot of different reasons. I'll list a few:

1. If someone is virtuous based on the presumption of an eventual vow, it's likely that they will blame God if this vow never manifests (or maybe they'll be too chicken to say "God," so they'll blame fate, or the world, or life). In other words, you're being virtuous to serve yourself. You're not engaging with goodness for its own sake. You're being transactional with God--if I'm virtuous, then I will receive a spouse. Wrong theological thinking.

2. We don't impose this kind of burden on people based on ANY OTHER SIN. If someone cheats on a test in high school, we don't claim that they are cheating every employer that they will ever have with that one act. If someone tells a lie to a friend we don't claim that they are lying to every potential friend that they will ever have. (Additionally, if/when your spouse lies to you, you'll get mad. You won't say to yourself, "Well, OF COURSE he lied to me...he told his mama that he didn't eat that cookie, so why should I be mad now. I knew when I married him that he was a LIAR.")

3. It's completely externalizing right and wrong to create a non-biblical system of supposed punishment for sin. According to the bible, sexual sins are significant because they are a SIN AGAINST OURSELVES--not because they are a sin against our future spouse. Part of the problem that most people have with sin is that they DON'T internalize God's attitude about sin. Instead, they live based an externalized set of "rules." So, if they struggle with a rule, then they probably need a harsher punishment. Uh, no...what they need is GOD'S VIEW OF SIN (which, btw, is clearly stated in the bible).

4. Claiming penalties for sin not found in the scripture is rather presumptuous. We are not God. God is the one who established humanity and who put into motion consequences for sin. I find it theologically suspect to make claims regarding sin that have zero biblical backing.

 

[PoetMary]

I think what Molly is saying is that she would be just as hurt by the relationships her husband had before marriage as she would be by a adulterous relationship after marriage. I can sort of see her side of it. After all wasn't that an intimate relationship that your spouse had with someone else?

I think it may be a little naïve to expect a virgin husband or wife but it is what all marriages should be.

The only reason that someone would be hurt by the previous sexual behavior of their eventual spouse is if this person thought the world revolved around them and their expectations.

I'm a teacher. I am not HURT by the lies students have told to previous teachers. I negotiate my relationships with my students based on their time NOW with ME. If they lie to me, then we have an issue. If they have lied in the past, that is in the past and has NOTHING to do with ME. If I were to presume that every student who lied to a previous teacher would lie to me, I would give students zero room to develop ethics. Additionally, I would also be placing myself at a place of prominence--when you lied to Ms. Smith, you lied to her AND you lied to ME. I'd be inserting myself into every previous student/teacher relationship...because why exactly? Because I consider myself the "teacher among teachers?"

Seriously, why would anyone be hurt that someone had had sex with another person before ever meeting you or even imagining meeting you? If I truly loved a person, I might experience pain that they engaged in relationships that diminished their humanity and underrated their value in the eyes of God. But I wouldn't be mad/hurt for my own sake. Who am I? Why should anyone remain a virgin for me?

I wouldn't even WANT a man to remain a virgin for me. I'd want a man to be chaste BECAUSE HE LOVES THE LORD. His chastity is between himself and the Lord...it has NOTHING to do with me.

 

[soloflight]

"4. Claiming penalties for sin not found in the scripture is rather presumptuous."
i agree whole heartedly. i refer to it as a game of mix and match. most that ive seen was done for the purpose of some type of gain often through intimidation. manipulating scripture is a dangerous game. The Lord said so Himself. although there are those that do so without realizing it. but even then the Lord is quite direct in saying "My people are destroyed from lack of knowledge."-Hosea4:6.
the word of God admonishes us to seek truth, seek God. the promise is nothing short of of His word, "
Jeremiah 29:13 'You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart.'

it dont get no better than that. -amen?-

 

[soloflight]

in response to poetmary: "4. Claiming penalties for sin not found in the scripture is rather presumptuous."

i agree whole heartedly. i refer to it as a game of mix and match. most that ive seen was done for the purpose of some type of gain often through intimidation. manipulating scripture is a dangerous game. The Lord said so Himself. although there are those that do so without realizing it. but even then the Lord is quite direct in saying "My people are destroyed from lack of knowledge."-Hosea4:6.
the word of God admonishes us to seek truth, seek God. the promise is nothing short of of His word, "
Jeremiah 29:13 'You will seek Me and find me when you search for Me with all your heart.'

it dont get no better than that. -amen?-

 

[Lis45]

This beautiful message was written by Christian author Jim Minker in response to a man struggling to overcome lust.

"Struggling With Lust"

I appreciate that you have shared this struggle with me. What you may not realize is how wide-spread this struggle is, and why it is that so many messages and sermons are preached on it and why so many books are written on it. For those who are getting tough on this area of sin are mostly likely heavily caught up in it themselves!

Here is the dilemma. As you have already mentioned, if you concentrate on the sin you continue to live in it. But the other trap is that trying to ignore it STILL causes you to concentrate on it ... just in a reverse way!! Are you following? If I tell you to stop thinking about MONKEYS ... what are you thinking about? If I tell you to stop trying to stop thinking about MONKEYS ... what are you still thinking about? Yeah, it's MONKEYS either way.

As long as you and I see ourselves tied to this ball and chain we will live in view of it. I write to you as one who understands what it is to think that he is still chained to lust. While I'm under the sway of this lie I simply cannot see the thing for what it is and it will loom over me as a controlling factor of my life (and this is true of any sin) and I will find myself struggling with something that I thought I was freed from. So how am I supposed to live as a victorious child of God when I'm afraid to examine the temptation for what it is without fear of getting caught up in it? That is the dilemma caused by living according to the elemental principles of the world. That phrase is from Galatians and it simply refers to the basic functioning of man under law - the way the world works.

The way you and I attempt to keep ourselves pure is the same as the world's way. Our problem is that since we have been made alive through the Spirit of Christ we struggle because try as we may we cannot get around the fact that something is still wrong with the results of the world's solutions. We're forced into even further turmoil by law preachers who heap condemnation upon us.

I know the feeling you speak of when you write: "not like much of a good person". But do you realize that this is merely the result of comparison? The question is: What are you comparing yourself to? A better version of yourself? Those obviously better Christians than yourself? Were you thinking of yourself as being a good person otherwise? Hey, believe me, I've had to ask myself those questions MANY times!!! I have come to realize what a spider web of legalistic games I play when I'm thinking according to the wisdom of man.

Now, please realize that I'm not trying to make light of the effects of this sin in any way, but when we think like this we have had to make light of many other sins we were viewing as not so bad compared to the one we saw as defiling us. Once again, that 's the elemental principles of the world.

In Christ we have been set free from sin. This is NOT a hypothetical or theological freedom ... it is a REAL freedom. The more you and I come to realize what sin really is then we are not left in such confusion over SPECIFIC sins.

Sin comes from desires of an empty shell that CANNOT be satisfied. Man without God is constantly looking for that special something that will fill the emptiness in order to satisfy it. Realize that nothing of itself is evil, but that it is the DESIRES of the EMPTY THING in it's seeking to fill it's longing by any means possible. The flesh will use, manipulate, destroy, kill or steal in order to get what it THINKS will satisfy ... and will justify itself in the process. But as nothing will satisfy but the life of God man has left behind a trail of destruction in his path.

But we have had the emptiness removed from us by being indwelt by the very life of God. When you and I lust (in the way of the world, that is, since remember that God's Spirit also lusts) we are operating as insane since WE NO LONGER HAVE THE NEED. What is it that you are looking for? What emptiness do you think you can fill? It is only insanity that makes you THINK that it will be filled in this way because the life inside you KNOWS that it cannot be.

What is it that makes pornography evil? It's NOT naked women, that's for sure! It's not sex, either. It is the desire of empty man that will steal from or destroy another to satisfy a desire that CANNOT be satisfied.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that you can adjust your desires so that they become pure because that is merely a game. Instead, be glad that God is revealing to you how desperate the empty flesh really is ... and what it is that His freedom has really brought about. The more you understand what things are NOT the less you find yourself deceived by those things. The Father wants you to know how powerful HIS desires are, and that these desires are the truth of your new life. He is revealing to you the emptiness and futility of the old.

When Paul wrote, "Put off the old man with his desires" he was not suggesting a STRUGGLE he wanted us to enter into, but he had been making it clear that the thing to be put off was to be seen as something that is no longer us or who were are. The language is used as in putting off clothing. The old man with his desires is like decayed graveclothes still hanging on one who has been made alive from the dead - like Lazarus who had come out of the grave and was still wrapped up in the embalming clothes. Jesus had to tell the people standing around to help him get the graveclothes off of him. When we are caught up in law and therefore, sin, we have, in picture form, put those graveclothes back on. While we are perceiving sin to be part of who we are then, of course, we will only be able to hear this as an impossible struggle to be undertaken. But it is NOT part of us because Christ has removed it from us. It hangs on us in our PERCEPTIONS, and because of that it will produce destruction.

Take off those graveclothes ... you're no longer dead.

Violet, I really like how you get to the root of the matter in this. Very very good! It can be a difficult thing for many to understand or realize, especially for newer Christians....but my hope and prayer is that we all as Christians grow and mature until we realize this truth from the inside out!

 

[MollyConnor]

Betrayal is betrayal whether you are a Christian or not. Just because someone does not believe in God does not mean they don't care whether or not their partner is faithful. Such values are not Christian exclusive. I don't understand your lack of understanding on this issue. Being a non believer does not automatically equate to an everything goes attitude.

Call me old school, but believer or not, athiest or not, still once a couple commits to each other in marriage, they are making a commitment to each other at least, and to break that commitment is bothersome. Or it would be to me. Take the believer or not believer part out of it, they are still human beings and things like that hurt. Premarital sex that person had before they committed to each other is the past at this point. They are making a new start moving forward - so for me, it would still hurt. Just saying.

What I'm trying to get as it that Christian or not, the couple has EVERY right to get upset over extramarital affairs. I am also saying that they should be concerned with premarital affairs too. After all when people have sex with someone, doesn't that make them one? Don't they become emotionally and physically involved in a level so intimate that only a married couple should share? Wouldn't you be upset or hurt if your spouse was comparing you to his other women? Or if he desires them instead of you? Because I'm sure that's very common with the adulterous culture that we live in.

Yes, it is sin against God of course! But I'm just being honest here, I would be hurt if my future husband told me he has been with other women.

Of course if he's a Christian he would be forgiven if he repents and I would feel much better about that. But still I just find it sad I guess? I never said it was sin against me though. It's not lol, but it would hurt. I guess you can't expect a virgin not to hurt when their spouse tells them they've been with X amount of girls/guys.

 

[MollyConnor]

Okay....I think it's important to not create ideas of sin that the bible doesn't address.

So you don’t think premarital sex is a sin? Of course it’s not a sin against others but it is a sin against God and themselves. However that doesn’t mean it doesn’t affect the spouse. Of course it does.

I do agree that premarital sex is done without a vow and maybe if you look at it that way, it’s not cheating. But it is cheating the couple out of many experiences. The more partners a person has, the more likely their marriage won’t last.
I’ve heard sex being compared to a piece of tape. If you stick that tape onto someone’s skin, it’s more likely to stay put. But if you keep sticking it onto other people’s skin it won’t stay put anymore because the adhesive is gone.
As a virgin myself, I wouldn’t know what it’s like but when you grow up with those analogies, it’s only natural to think of premarital sex as cheating. Despite what everyone else has said on here, I still think it is. You are right, it’s not cheating formally because there is no vow, but I think it’s cheating the relationship out of beautiful things that only two virgins could experience together.

I’m abstaining from sex because I know that it’s what God wants. I know that He knows everything about me and the world. He knows us all better than we know ourselves. So I trust Him and His word and I’ve chosen to wait because that’s what He wants us to do. And yes, I am waiting in case I do get married. I know I might not get married, God doesn’t owe me anything at all. But in case I do I can tell him that I’ve never been with anyone else but him. Even if he’s been with 30 plus women as long as he’s given himself over to Christ, I would be okay with that. I would probably hurt a bit but if he’s repents, it’s okay. It’s normal to sin.

We don’t impose this type of burden on other things because there’s a big difference with lying and with sex. The Bible says that when two people do the deed, they become one. That doesn’t happen with lying.

I never said anything about penalties. So I don’t know where you’re getting that. I know I am not God. I was just stating my opinion on here. Also, I don’t appreciate being called names like presumptuous. If you don’t agree with what I say or if I say something that is inaccurate, you can call me out on it if you’d like but don’t call me names. I struggle with a low self-esteem and suicidal thoughts and name calling leads to severe depression for me. I would actually really appreciate it if you didn’t call me names, please. Thanks.

You also say that you wouldn’t be hurt if your future spouse has been with other women, that’s great of you! That’s probably because you are stronger emotionally. I know I’m not. Unfortunately not all of us are the same. I personally would be hurt. Like I said earlier, sex makes people one. I would be sad to learn that my husband has become one with other women, especially when I know that God didn’t want it that way. I know I probably won’t marry a virgin, and that’s fine but I do pray for God to heal me emotionally and for me to be able to accept him in whichever way he comes. Or even if he doesn’t come. haha

Oh and here are some links and verses that support what I said about becoming one and premarital sex more likely to end in divorce.

I want to point out that I apologize if I have offended anyone on here that has had premarital and is maybe married now or struggling with it still. I’m sorry, really I am. I truly believe that when someone comes to Christ, their sins are washed away and they are made into another person because of the one that lives within them. Please don’t take what I said, personally. I was mostly talking about non-Christians.

1 Corinthians 6:15-17
Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? Never! Or do you know know that he who is joined to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For, as it is written, "The two will become one flesh." But he who is joined to the Lord become one spirit with them.

Hebrews 13:4
Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous.

Exodus 22:16-17
If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall give the bride-price for her and make her his wife. If her father utterly refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money equal to the bride-price for virgins.

The Neglected Heart: The Emotional Dangers of Premature Sexual Involvement

New Study Claims People Who've Had More Sexual Partners Report Unhappier Marriages

Sex and Divorce: What’s the Connection? | Family Studies

 

[Cindy12]

I'm sorry, but those charts? I mean we are looking at charts based on marriage, sex partners, four year college degrees and divorce? Wow. Where did you find these? I wouldn't put any stock into those at all. I also don't think that past partners are the indicator of divorces. People get divorced for thousands of reasons. Right or wrong, I don't think it has to do with the number of partners they have had in the past. So, are you saying that if you met Mr. Wonderful in the next month or so and fell madly in love, but he revealed to you that he had been with other women in the past, he is a cheater and out of the question for marrying? And then, you wouldnt consider him anyway because you feel that the marriage would end in divorce because he had past partners?

 

[james57]

I believe that sexual sin (no matter what form it takes) is the most excused, minimized and rationalized type of sin that there is.

Now it can be argued that this distinction belongs to idolatry, but I feel that sexual sin falls under the idolatry umbrella.

I've seen, read and heard numerous so-called "Christians" try to defend things such as adultery, fornication, LGBT, etc, and accuse those who speak against them as being "hateful". And they try to paint Christ as someone who will pat you on the back and say that your lifestyle is A-OK with Him.

This is also why God speaks so strongly against sexual sin in the Scriptures, and why Satan works so hard to entice us. God knows how destructive this category of sin is.

Not looking for an echo chamber; you may disagree with me if you like, and that's OK. But does anyone also feel that the rationalization and excusing of sexual sin is rampant?

I think sexual sin-whether in the mind or with another is the most common weakness people experience. Thou shalt not covet is a commandment that has caused many to fall, including king David. And though Paul as a pharisee could perfectly obey the legalistic law, thou shalt not covet was the example of law he gave that he could not obey as a pharisee

 

[MollyConnor]

I'm sorry, but those charts? I mean we are looking at charts based on marriage, sex partners, four year college degrees and divorce? Wow. Where did you find these? I wouldn't put any stock into those at all. I also don't think that past partners are the indicator of divorces. People get divorced for thousands of reasons. Right or wrong, I don't think it has to do with the number of partners they have had in the past. So, are you saying that if you met Mr. Wonderful in the next month or so and fell madly in love, but he revealed to you that he had been with other women in the past, he is a cheater and out of the question for marrying? And then, you wouldnt consider him anyway because you feel that the marriage would end in divorce because he had past partners?

I already answered this in the above post. The charts just show what was studied, if you don't agree with it, that's cool. But I was just pointing out what I had come across. Here is where I answered btw.

. I know I might not get married, God doesn’t owe me anything at all. But in case I do I can tell him that I’ve never been with anyone else but him. Even if he’s been with 30 plus women as long as he’s given himself over to Christ, I would be okay with that. I would probably hurt a bit but if he’s repents, it’s okay. It’s normal to sin.

You also say that you wouldn’t be hurt if your future spouse has been with other women, that’s great of you! That’s probably because you are stronger emotionally. I know I’m not. Unfortunately not all of us are the same. I personally would be hurt. Like I said earlier, sex makes people one. I would be sad to learn that my husband has become one with other women, especially when I know that God didn’t want it that way. I know I probably won’t marry a virgin, and that’s fine but I do pray for God to heal me emotionally and for me to be able to accept him in whichever way he comes. Or even if he doesn’t come. haha

 

[MollyConnor]

Also, the purpose of them separating the 4 year degree respondents with the ones without those degrees was to see if there were any differences between working class partners and those that are college educated. Apparently, it doesn't make much of a difference. You can find them and the entire article on the third link that I posted "Sex and Divorce."

 

[MollyConnor]

Cindy12, Magenta and PoetMary, I apologize if I have caused confusion and anger. I don't want to argue. I just wanted you all to see what I thought.

PoetMary is right. Premarital sex isn't cheating. But I do believe that it cheats the couple out of a sweet experience that only two virgins can have on their wedding night. I hope we can all agree on that?
Also, I never said I wouldn't give a guy that's been with other women a chance. On the contrary, I've already said just the opposite, that I would give him a chance so long as he repents and loves Jesus.

On the original post, I was meaning that Amy should be hurt with her husband breaking the vows just as much as she should be hurt that he's been with other women. I see it that way because vow or not, he still became one with those other women.

And I know that just because I'm a virgin, doesn't mean I will get a virgin guy. I might not even get a guy and that's fine. I trust God and His plans. I would actually appreciate prayer in this and encouragement in accepting whichever man comes into my life, virgin or not.

But please don't argue, I'm not into that. I've already stated what I think and again I really do apologize for saying anything that might have been out of line.

Thank you

 

[PoetMary]

So you don’t think premarital sex is a sin? Of course it’s not a sin against others but it is a sin against God and themselves. However that doesn’t mean it doesn’t affect the spouse. Of course it does.

Okay...let's be clear here and not make claims about me that are not accurate.

1. I *never* claimed that premarital sex was not a sin.
2. YOU claimed that having premarital sex was sinning against some presupposed future partner JUST as adultery is sinning against a partner.
3. You provided NO biblical evidence to back up your opinion.
4. I challenged this opinion.

It's not logical for you to presume that just because I questioned your biblically unsubstantiated opinion, that I'm somehow making claims of sin not being sin. It also seems a little suspect.

And for the record, questioning someone's opinion isn't arguing. Certainly everyone is allowed to have an opinion, but when opinion is presented as if it is fact, it's useful to be skeptical and question. If the opinion is about theological ideas or right behavior (as determined by biblical understanding), it's reasonable that other people would want to compare our thinking with scripture.

Philosophically speaking, I'm not a fan of the "you shouldn't have premarital sex because of a list of all the ways it will doom your life forever." I think we should avoid sin NOT because we fear repercussions (which is a rather undeveloped sense of morality), but because we love God and want to please Him.

Let's pretend that there was ample evidence that premarital sex made people happy. That it led to closer marriages, that people who had it lived longer, that it made people smarter, brighter, and shinier...all of this wouldn't matter in the face of pleasing God.

This is what I mean by real virtue. If someone is only good because of some perceived future benefit (it will make my marriage better), then their goodness is self-serving. We should be virtuous to please God...period. We may or may not benefit from this virtuous behavior, but any benefit we receive is irrelevant. The whole idea of truly trusting God and truly submitting to God is that he doesn't have to present us with 50 reasons explaining why it's bad. He should simply be able to say, "This is my will," and we respond, "Got it!"

 

[MollyConnor]

Okay sorry PoetMary. I guess I assumed that you were talking about premarital sin when you said this.

Okay....I think it's important to not create ideas of sin that the bible doesn't address.

But I see now that you were talking about how premarital sex and adultery against a spouse are different situations. So that is number 1. I apologize. Really I do.

2 and 3, I do believe premarital sex is sin against a future spouse. Of course it's sin against God first. And I DID provide verses explaining why. A person becomes one with the other person that they have sex with. That's cheating the relationship out of something mutually exclusive that should be left for a married couple only. Not only that but it can result in disease that can be passed onto their future spouse or children.
4 You have a right to challenge my opinions but at the end of the day, we both have our differing opinions and there's no point in continuing to challenge each others' opinions. I'm not going to change mine and you are not going to change yours.

It's not logical for you to presume that just because I questioned your biblically unsubstantiated opinion, that I'm somehow making claims of sin not being sin. It also seems a little suspect.

I just apologized to this, again sorry! It was my mistake. But why am I suspect? I made a mistake...I'm only human. And I did provide three verses at the top. Just the fact that we become one with every person we have sex with cheats our future relationship with our spouse. It cheats it out of a husband and wife becoming one with only each other. Do you understand what I'm trying to say?

This is what I mean by real virtue. If someone is only good because of some perceived future benefit (it will make my marriage better), then their goodness is self-serving. We should be virtuous to please God...period. We may or may not benefit from this virtuous behavior, but any benefit we receive is irrelevant. The whole idea of truly trusting God and truly submitting to God is that he doesn't have to present us with 50 reasons explaining why it's bad. He should simply be able to say, "This is my will," and we respond, "Got it!"

I agree with this. It's true, we shouldn't follow a list of rules just because it makes life easier or better. But you asked why I thought premarital sex was cheating and I explained it with verses, websites, and statistics because I wanted you to know why I feel that way.
Also, God is not a powerful ruler who just makes up rules for no purpose. There are purposes to those rules...at the end of the day those rules are set in place so that we could lead better lives that will help us grow spiritually.

I hope I don't upset you. That is not my intention. I am just expressing my opinion. God bless you sister!

 

[PoetMary]

I have no quarrel with you Molly. You're certainly entitled to your own understanding of the ramifications of sexual sin. And I can tell from your postings here and other places that you have a true desire to love and serve God.

I do agree that God doesn't establish rules for no reason. I do think, though, that sometimes we don't understand God's underlying reasons (this is not just about various "rules," but also about his will for our lives). Sometimes, we may never understand the why's of it until we get to heaven (and trust me, I'm the sort of person who wants to know the why's). It's much harder to cultivate submission when we are "flying blind" (so to speak). But in a way, that's the real test of trust. Will we obey God even when our desire for explanations isn't met? Do we trust God enough to believe that He is good and his will for us is good? Of course, God has great compassion for our human frailty, so most of the time we are offered at least a glimmer of his reasoning.

I suppose I liken it to the Thomas situation. The other disciples accepted the resurrected Lord, but Thomas needed to touch his wounds. He was compassionate enough to allow this, but he reminded Thomas that the greater faith was in believing without having that confirmation.

I'm not even remotely arrived when it comes to perfect submission to God's will, but it's what I aim for.