Sexual sin

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NotmebutHim

Senior Member
May 17, 2015
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#1
I believe that sexual sin (no matter what form it takes) is the most excused, minimized and rationalized type of sin that there is.

Now it can be argued that this distinction belongs to idolatry, but I feel that sexual sin falls under the idolatry umbrella.

I've seen, read and heard numerous so-called "Christians" try to defend things such as adultery, fornication, LGBT, etc, and accuse those who speak against them as being "hateful". And they try to paint Christ as someone who will pat you on the back and say that your lifestyle is A-OK with Him.

This is also why God speaks so strongly against sexual sin in the Scriptures, and why Satan works so hard to entice us. God knows how destructive this category of sin is.

Not looking for an echo chamber; you may disagree with me if you like, and that's OK. But does anyone also feel that the rationalization and excusing of sexual sin is rampant?
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#2
No, I think lack of faith probably is.
 

NotmebutHim

Senior Member
May 17, 2015
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#3
And no, I am certainly not exempt from struggling with sexual sin myself. That is one reason why I speak against it. I know it sounds hypocritical, but it really isn't. It's not a "OK for me but not for you" attitude; rather it's a "I fight against this daily and in my spirit want nothing to do with it".
 
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BarlyGurl

Guest
#4
After reading your second post... I think it is important to add that... SEX DRIVE is given by God as a component for a variety of GOOD and PERFECT reasons...
1) Building Character
2) Finding a mate
3) mutual pleasure
4) reproduction

SO how about NOT lumping perversions together with NORMAL GOD GIVEN FUNCTIONS... as if ALL sexual sin is equal/equivalent in offensiveness to GOD.
 

Dan58

Senior Member
Nov 13, 2013
1,991
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#5
as if ALL sexual sin is equal/equivalent in offensiveness to GOD.

I suspect that all sexual sin is offensive to God, which is why he called it sin... Whether fornication, adultery, and homosexuality are equally equivalent, I don't know? But homosexuality is described as an abomination (detestable) before God, which would seem to indicate that it is an especially wrongful sin against God and nature.

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them" (Leviticus 20:13)

I don't think most sexual sin is categorized as idolatry, because its a sin of lust and self, which is why those who commit such acts, it is said that their blood shall be upon themselves... jmo
 
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atwhatcost

Guest
#6
And no, I am certainly not exempt from struggling with sexual sin myself. That is one reason why I speak against it. I know it sounds hypocritical, but it really isn't. It's not a "OK for me but not for you" attitude; rather it's a "I fight against this daily and in my spirit want nothing to do with it".
I think this is key. The sin that bugs us out the most is the sin we struggle with the most.

Because of that, I truly believe arrogance and gossiping are worse than sexual sin.
 
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MollyConnor

Guest
#7
I don't know if it's the most rationalized sin there is, but I do agree that it is very prevalent among our culture. Especially here in America. :(:mad:

What's really sad is when a couple (man and woman) get married after many sexual partners or even after living together themselves. Then they get mad if one of them cheats on the other. I don't understand that...because they already knew they had been with other people sexually. Just because you're married now doesn't change that. I just think that people should rightly be offended and upset if their boyfriend/girlfriend has been with other people before they met them. You understand what I'm saying?

Now of course, there are exceptions like those who were married or those who have been forgiven by Jesus. That's great and I get that. I wouldn't mind marrying a man that has been with other women so long as he confesses his sin and changes his ways. I will admit, it would be hard because I've never been with someone but it's not something I would write off either.

But let me use an example of what I mean. Let's say a guy named Gary has been with seven women and a girl named Amy has been with four men. They then marry each other. Gary cheats on Amy and Amy gets upset because he was with another woman. This is what I don't understand. Amy knew Gary had been with seven other girls. Why is she upset/jealous now? I get that they are now married, but I also think that the past makes a person and these two should be upset that the other has been with other people.

People get upset over their spouse being with someone else in marriage but then don't care if it happened before they are married? Why is that?

Basically what I'm getting at is this: Premarital sex IS CHEATING.
 
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Cindy12

Senior Member
Jan 5, 2015
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#8
I don't know if it's the most rationalized sin there is, but I do agree that it is very prevalent among our culture. Especially here in America. :(:mad:

What's really sad is when a couple (man and woman) get married after many sexual partners or even after living together themselves. Then they get mad if one of them cheats on the other. I don't understand that...because they already knew they had been with other people sexually. Just because you're married now doesn't change that. I just think that people should rightly be offended and upset if their boyfriend/girlfriend has been with other people before they met them. You understand what I'm saying?

Now of course, there are exceptions like those who were married or those who have been forgiven by Jesus. That's great and I get that. I wouldn't mind marrying a man that has been with other women so long as he confesses his sin and changes his ways. I will admit, it would be hard because I've never been with someone but it's not something I would write off either.

But let me use an example of what I mean. Let's say a guy named Gary has been with seven women and a girl named Amy has been with four men. They then marry each other. Gary cheats on Amy and Amy gets upset because he was with another woman. This is what I don't understand. Amy knew Gary had been with seven other girls. Why is she upset/jealous now? I get that they are now married, but I also think that the past makes a person and these two should be upset that the other has been with other people.

People get upset over their spouse being with someone else in marriage but then don't care if it happened before they are married? Why is that?

Basically what I'm getting at is this: Premarital sex IS CHEATING.
Clearly, to me, Amy has all the right in the world to be upset that Gary cheated on her "after he made a commitment in front of God to her and her only"! I don't agree that a past makes a person. I think everyone has a past and that if a person has repented, is forgiven of their sins and moving forward, new life begins. A new commitment in front of the Lord to be married to one person only is reason enough to have the girl livid if he decides to cheat on her. I think that people get upset over a spouse being with someone else once married because that is breaking a commitment you made to that person and that person only. You didn't have a commitment with them in "their" past and vice versa.
I can't comment on you saying that premarital sex is cheating, but it's not cheating on "me" ... and thats what I would be caring about if I were married to a person.
 
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shotgunner

Guest
#9
After reading your second post... I think it is important to add that... SEX DRIVE is given by God as a component for a variety of GOOD and PERFECT reasons...
1) Building Character
2) Finding a mate
3) mutual pleasure
4) reproduction

SO how about NOT lumping perversions together with NORMAL GOD GIVEN FUNCTIONS... as if ALL sexual sin is equal/equivalent in offensiveness to GOD.
I think the key to what you are talking about is understanding that sex is not sin when it is enjoyed within the context of a marriage. Sex drive isn't sin either as long as it isn't allowed to totally dominate someone's life. In other words, it isn't sinful for a single man to be attracted to a single woman as long as they abide by God's laws and are married before sex. I also see sex before marriage as very forgivable if the couple get married afterwards.


Basically we could say that sex isn't the sin but how we treat it and act upon it can be sinful.
 

Yeraza_Bats

Senior Member
Dec 11, 2014
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#10
I like what you said about idolatry, NotmebutHim. I had that with the gender thing. Though being transgender isnt necessarily a sexual sin, it is definitely tied in with it, as pretty much anyone who lives that life follows sexual immorality. But anywho, during that time in my life, I had a big transgender flag, you know, the one with the light blue, pink and white bars stacked up on each other? I displayed that for everyone to see. I had pins and buttons for it, and I even used the Mario character Birdo (Birdo is a pink dinosaur whos born male but wants to be a girl) as my avatar online. This character became my idol, I even began to wear a Birdo pendant around my neck daily.

And the gay community is no different. They have their own banners and symbols, and they have their own speakers and agendas. I believe that it definitely qualifies as idolatry.
 
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VioletReigns

Guest
#11
Sin-consciousness is not the reality of the grace of Jesus Christ. We are this very moment set free of sin because of Jesus. You may not fully believe it, you may still be brainwashed by that religious mindset that says you still have to overcome sin. You may think God is waiting around for you to change. Not true. Christ has made us free once and for all. Until you realize that, until you believe that he rules and reigns in you with or without your permission, your mind will keep spinning on that hamster wheel of sin-consciousness.

Jesus remains faithful even if we doubt him. You may as well just believe him. :eek:
 
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VioletReigns

Guest
#12
This beautiful message was written by Christian author Jim Minker in response to a man struggling to overcome lust.

"Struggling With Lust"

I appreciate that you have shared this struggle with me. What you may not realize is how wide-spread this struggle is, and why it is that so many messages and sermons are preached on it and why so many books are written on it. For those who are getting tough on this area of sin are mostly likely heavily caught up in it themselves!

Here is the dilemma. As you have already mentioned, if you concentrate on the sin you continue to live in it. But the other trap is that trying to ignore it STILL causes you to concentrate on it ... just in a reverse way!! Are you following? If I tell you to stop thinking about MONKEYS ... what are you thinking about? If I tell you to stop trying to stop thinking about MONKEYS ... what are you still thinking about? Yeah, it's MONKEYS either way.

As long as you and I see ourselves tied to this ball and chain we will live in view of it. I write to you as one who understands what it is to think that he is still chained to lust. While I'm under the sway of this lie I simply cannot see the thing for what it is and it will loom over me as a controlling factor of my life (and this is true of any sin) and I will find myself struggling with something that I thought I was freed from. So how am I supposed to live as a victorious child of God when I'm afraid to examine the temptation for what it is without fear of getting caught up in it? That is the dilemma caused by living according to the elemental principles of the world. That phrase is from Galatians and it simply refers to the basic functioning of man under law - the way the world works.

The way you and I attempt to keep ourselves pure is the same as the world's way. Our problem is that since we have been made alive through the Spirit of Christ we struggle because try as we may we cannot get around the fact that something is still wrong with the results of the world's solutions. We're forced into even further turmoil by law preachers who heap condemnation upon us.

I know the feeling you speak of when you write: "not like much of a good person". But do you realize that this is merely the result of comparison? The question is: What are you comparing yourself to? A better version of yourself? Those obviously better Christians than yourself? Were you thinking of yourself as being a good person otherwise? Hey, believe me, I've had to ask myself those questions MANY times!!! I have come to realize what a spider web of legalistic games I play when I'm thinking according to the wisdom of man.

Now, please realize that I'm not trying to make light of the effects of this sin in any way, but when we think like this we have had to make light of many other sins we were viewing as not so bad compared to the one we saw as defiling us. Once again, that 's the elemental principles of the world.

In Christ we have been set free from sin. This is NOT a hypothetical or theological freedom ... it is a REAL freedom. The more you and I come to realize what sin really is then we are not left in such confusion over SPECIFIC sins.

Sin comes from desires of an empty shell that CANNOT be satisfied. Man without God is constantly looking for that special something that will fill the emptiness in order to satisfy it. Realize that nothing of itself is evil, but that it is the DESIRES of the EMPTY THING in it's seeking to fill it's longing by any means possible. The flesh will use, manipulate, destroy, kill or steal in order to get what it THINKS will satisfy ... and will justify itself in the process. But as nothing will satisfy but the life of God man has left behind a trail of destruction in his path.

But we have had the emptiness removed from us by being indwelt by the very life of God. When you and I lust (in the way of the world, that is, since remember that God's Spirit also lusts) we are operating as insane since WE NO LONGER HAVE THE NEED. What is it that you are looking for? What emptiness do you think you can fill? It is only insanity that makes you THINK that it will be filled in this way because the life inside you KNOWS that it cannot be.

What is it that makes pornography evil? It's NOT naked women, that's for sure! It's not sex, either. It is the desire of empty man that will steal from or destroy another to satisfy a desire that CANNOT be satisfied.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that you can adjust your desires so that they become pure because that is merely a game. Instead, be glad that God is revealing to you how desperate the empty flesh really is ... and what it is that His freedom has really brought about. The more you understand what things are NOT the less you find yourself deceived by those things. The Father wants you to know how powerful HIS desires are, and that these desires are the truth of your new life. He is revealing to you the emptiness and futility of the old.

When Paul wrote, "Put off the old man with his desires" he was not suggesting a STRUGGLE he wanted us to enter into, but he had been making it clear that the thing to be put off was to be seen as something that is no longer us or who were are. The language is used as in putting off clothing. The old man with his desires is like decayed graveclothes still hanging on one who has been made alive from the dead - like Lazarus who had come out of the grave and was still wrapped up in the embalming clothes. Jesus had to tell the people standing around to help him get the graveclothes off of him. When we are caught up in law and therefore, sin, we have, in picture form, put those graveclothes back on. While we are perceiving sin to be part of who we are then, of course, we will only be able to hear this as an impossible struggle to be undertaken. But it is NOT part of us because Christ has removed it from us. It hangs on us in our PERCEPTIONS, and because of that it will produce destruction.

Take off those graveclothes ... you're no longer dead.
 
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shotgunner

Guest
#13
Sin-consciousness is not the reality of the grace of Jesus Christ. We are this very moment set free of sin because of Jesus. You may not fully believe it, you may still be brainwashed by that religious mindset that says you still have to overcome sin. You may think God is waiting around for you to change. Not true. Christ has made us free once and for all. Until you realize that, until you believe that he rules and reigns in you with or without your permission, your mind will keep spinning on that hamster wheel of sin-consciousness.

Jesus remains faithful even if we doubt him. You may as well just believe him. :eek:
Here's a couple of scriptures to go along with that nugget.

Hebrews 1:3King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Hebrews 10:1-2King James Version (KJV)
10 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
 
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MollyConnor

Guest
#14
Clearly, to me, Amy has all the right in the world to be upset that Gary cheated on her "after he made a commitment in front of God to her and her only"! I don't agree that a past makes a person. I think everyone has a past and that if a person has repented, is forgiven of their sins and moving forward, new life begins. A new commitment in front of the Lord to be married to one person only is reason enough to have the girl livid if he decides to cheat on her. I think that people get upset over a spouse being with someone else once married because that is breaking a commitment you made to that person and that person only. You didn't have a commitment with them in "their" past and vice versa.
I can't comment on you saying that premarital sex is cheating, but it's not cheating on "me" ... and thats what I would be caring about if I were married to a person.
I wasn't talking about those that commit in front of the Lord. That would make them Christians. I was talking about unbelievers who complain about being cheated on when they've been with others before their spouse. I don't understand it.

I even mentioned that a person who has been with other people and has confessed these sins would be forgiven and should be given the chance of starting a new life.

But when someone is an atheist and sleeps around, gets married and then gets upset over being cheated on...I don't understand it. I mean...why do they care? More clearly I should say it this way, they care because it stings knowing the person they love has been with someone else...correct? So why doesn't it sting them when they know that said spouse has had premarital sex with heaven knows how many others?

That's what I was pointing out. Sorry if I confused you. I did not mean Christian couples. I do believe that premarital sex would be forgiven in that case and those sins are washed away. Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#15
Basically what I'm getting at is this: Premarital sex IS CHEATING.
While we might argue about whether pre-marital sex is cheating in the sense of adultery (I think it is), perhaps we can agree that pre-marital sex does 'cheat' the offender and their future spouse out of the innocence, purity and joyful discovery of marriage. The trouble is, we don't value the treasure we so carelessly throw away until it is long-gone. (Why even bother to take a honeymoon? Save your money for the counselors you'll need later!)

It saddens me when I learn that yet another young co-worker or acquaintance has chosen the quick route to (cheap and shallow) intimacy. I don't expect non-believers to act like believers, but I know in my heart that they have lost something precious, and that they probably won't ever understand until they come to repentance.
 

levi85

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2013
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#16
The Bible says if anyone commits sexual sin, it hurts the body as well the spirit
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#17
I think this is key. The sin that bugs us out the most is the sin we struggle with the most.

Because of that, I truly believe arrogance and gossiping are worse than sexual sin.
Well played! I love it.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
62,104
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#18
I wasn't talking about those that commit in front of the Lord. That would make them Christians. I was talking about unbelievers who complain about being cheated on when they've been with others before their spouse. I don't understand it.

I even mentioned that a person who has been with other people and has confessed these sins would be forgiven and should be given the chance of starting a new life.

But when someone is an atheist and sleeps around, gets married and then gets upset over being cheated on...I don't understand it. I mean...why do they care? More clearly I should say it this way, they care because it stings knowing the person they love has been with someone else...correct? So why doesn't it sting them when they know that said spouse has had premarital sex with heaven knows how many others?

That's what I was pointing out. Sorry if I confused you. I did not mean Christian couples. I do believe that premarital sex would be forgiven in that case and those sins are washed away. Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice.
Betrayal is betrayal whether you are a Christian or not. Just because someone does not believe in God does not mean they don't care whether or not their partner is faithful. Such values are not Christian exclusive. I don't understand your lack of understanding on this issue. Being a non believer does not automatically equate to an everything goes attitude.
 
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hopesprings

Guest
#19
Betrayal is betrayal whether you are a Christian or not. Just because someone does not believe in God does not mean they don't care whether or not their partner is faithful. Such values are not Christian exclusive. I don't understand your lack of understanding on this issue. Being a non believer does not automatically equate to an everything goes attitude.
i agree totally.
lack of faith does not mean a lack of expecting others to keep their word.
 

Cindy12

Senior Member
Jan 5, 2015
243
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#20
I wasn't talking about those that commit in front of the Lord. That would make them Christians. I was talking about unbelievers who complain about being cheated on when they've been with others before their spouse. I don't understand it.

I even mentioned that a person who has been with other people and has confessed these sins would be forgiven and should be given the chance of starting a new life.

But when someone is an atheist and sleeps around, gets married and then gets upset over being cheated on...I don't understand it. I mean...why do they care? More clearly I should say it this way, they care because it stings knowing the person they love has been with someone else...correct? So why doesn't it sting them when they know that said spouse has had premarital sex with heaven knows how many others?

That's what I was pointing out. Sorry if I confused you. I did not mean Christian couples. I do believe that premarital sex would be forgiven in that case and those sins are washed away. Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice.

Call me old school, but believer or not, athiest or not, still once a couple commits to each other in marriage, they are making a commitment to each other at least, and to break that commitment is bothersome. Or it would be to me. Take the believer or not believer part out of it, they are still human beings and things like that hurt. Premarital sex that person had before they committed to each other is the past at this point. They are making a new start moving forward - so for me, it would still hurt. Just saying.